BOTM 101 -- First Spoiler to 1AD

[kcd_swede]

BOTM 101 - Elizabeth vs. Dr.Moreau - First Spoiler to 1 AD

[img=right]http://gotm.civfanatics.net/civ4games/images/botm101civ.JPG[/img]



Use this thread to tell us what happened in your game, up to 1AD!
How did it go?
Were you pre-game settling plans working out as you hoped?
See anything interesting from the Doctor?


Stop! If you are participating in BOTM 101, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless EITHER

• You have reached at least 1 AD in your game, OR
• You have submitted your entry

Posting Restrictions

• Please do not disclose ANY events or information gained post 1 AD.
• Please do not reveal your final result if that happened after 1 AD.
• Please do not discuss the location of resources that may not show up before 1 AD. (Iron is OK, coal and oil are not)
  
• Do not post any savegame file from the game. Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games

 

[ikotomi]

This game is turning out pretty fun.

I settled 1S of the starting position, because I scouted the third corn in the southwest with my warrior. I originally wanted 2S1W, but the extra grass hill and river tiles seemed a little better.

Early game went pretty fast, with Oracle going on 2040BC. 1200BC I noticed Suleiman marching a stack of 12 units or so from really far away. There was only one obvious target (me), so I had no choice but to beg when I got Currency, and slowly build my own stack. Since I caught him so far away, I delayed the DoW date to 275BC, as he spent 10 turns marching back after the initial peace treaty.

It still set me back quite a bit since I was pumping out axemen for quite a while. Building a walls turned out to be a mistake, since he ended up retreating for a good 10 turns or so before finally losing his stack and getting peace. I also overcompensated with the number of axemen I needed, not losing a single one. Will probably use them to take on Dr Moreau, but I know he has at least Horse Archers.

Same turn Suleiman declared, I notice that Surya also had an enormous stack right outside my civ with a bunch of catapults, so I begged from him as well. I ended up getting friendly with him about 5 turns later, and he instantly declared on Mansa and asked me to join in (I refused). Still friendly for now, but I'm trying to get as many more modifiers as possible to keep him that way.

Techwise, I'm at 11 cities with 240 BPT and enough surplus for 10 turns of research, currently 8 turns from Printing Press. I was just a little late settling to the north, so Surya took the last city spot I was going to go for, so I need an army to get more land. Great Library is built in the capital. Whether I go for Domination or Space, I'll probably go through Rifling +Nationalism unless I can get horses quickly, so I think I'm going to try for Rifling with Liberalism.

Surya ended up building MoM, so I'm not sure if/when I'll decide to take him out. He's teching pretty quickly and I only have Paper above him.

 

[kcd_swede]

Almost at PrPress at 1AD
And that was very skillful to avoid a double DOW.

Did it seem to you that the AI were more militaristic than normal, due to their being at war with the Dr, and then needing a land target to use them?

 

[ikotomi]

I think it's more the nature of inland sea, with each AI only touching one other AI. Greece and Mali both have early UU's, which probably discouraged AI from choosing them over me.

I was rather surprised to see suleimans stack making the long march, and with a stack that big it would have been game over without Currency. I almost decided maths first, but Surya got it and I thought I would be able to trade soon. Of course, nobody else went for it for a long time and Mansa got it second anyways.

 

[Rusten]

Got to say, it's been a while since I last got liberalism in the BCs -- what a map.

Did it seem to you that the AI were more militaristic than normal, due to their being at war with the Dr, and then needing a land target to use them?

You're evil! Now I'm glad I bribed everyone into war against Korea early on. That could've ended badly.

 

[Pangaea]

So here I come again, giving everybody else that warm fuzzy feeling inside, knowing at least there is one other soul out there that got it worse

Not going to lie; I've been in a lot of trouble. Was an inch away from retiring the game.

Workerstole from Suleiman, but despite having power-increasing techs and even killing a scout, he wouldn't take peace. Just my luck, of course, and suddenly a wandering archer invaded the borders of a newly settled defenseless city. I whipped a warrior, but the archer won, and I lost the city. At this point I very nearly retired. But then figured: What the hell. Pump out some warriors and try to retake it. If it fails, retire, if it succeeds, fine. The buggar got out a 2nd archer, but the 7th and last warrior got the city back. Phew! Then gave him Alpha, which bought the peace.

For a while.

Moreau had settled a fine city by the double-wheat, and Suleiman had a stack there to take it, so I bribed him off him (wasn't sure this would work, but apparently it does). Maybe 15 turns later, that stack knocked on my door. But now I had a hill-city with units in it, so he lost the stack, then paid me 70 gold for peace. Just before 1AD, we finally got that wheat city.

It looks like Pericles has got onto the island, but I don't know what it looks like yet, nor what units is on it. Sury attacked Mansa, and just before 1AD they peaced out. Think Sury lost a lot of units, because Mansa got early Feudalism.

Naturally having so much bad luck, again, means the game is pretty dire compared to probably anybody else playing it, but at least I got to Civil Service. A bit generous, but that got me Feudalism, MC and Construction from three different AIs. Have just 3-popped 2 settlers, but was doing slightly over 200 before that, with 8 cities. Should soon have 10, unless bad luck strikes again and something eats those settlers. There are not poisonous snakes in the grass, right?

A bit tempting to try to get onto the island, I assume there is lots of good land, but reckon it's more important to get out some forges and libraries instead. Got the Academy in the capital, but haven't worked on another GS yet. No wonders either. Sury and Moreau have wonderwhored. Oracle, Mids, GLH and Colossus on the Island. With research like that, he could be a beast for all I know, in more ways than one.

Will probably try to settle westwards instead. Sury took a spot I wanted in the north, but at least I got the fish spot, which should retain one of the Dyes. Moreau is a nasty one, as he keeps landing troops now and then.

Terrible game, so I should be glad if I can win it at all. Doesn't feel under control so far at all. Lib in the BC? FFS!

 

[Pangaea]

Did it seem to you that the AI were more militaristic than normal, due to their being at war with the Dr, and then needing a land target to use them?

Have only played this mapscript once before, so little experience with it, but it seems to me the AIs are more aggressive. Lots of units everywhere, and as mentioned, war broke out without me meddling. Admittedly Suleiman had an axe to grind, but I was still surprised he marched such a long way to declare on me again. We were cautious then with OB, so it's not like he had a raging hatred for me.

 

[Rusten]

The sea was angry that day my friends....


At least your sense of humor is still alive and kicking.
If all else fails I'll give you the unofficial bard medal for an entertaining write-up.

 

[ikotomi]

Depending on your victory choice, you might not end up being that far behind if you can keep up in tech. Short of someone beating the whole map with Axes, I don't see anybody cleaning up this map that fast due to the lack of animals. Engineering is probably the key tech for people that want to rush this before getting rifling and

 

[kcd_swede]

Have only played this mapscript once before, so little experience with it, but it seems to me the AIs are more aggressive. Lots of units everywhere, and as mentioned, war broke out without me meddling. Admittedly Suleiman had an axe to grind, but I was still surprised he marched such a long way to declare on me again. We were cautious then with OB, so it's not like he had a raging hatred for me.

“Some want to follow things that move, to watch and slink and wait and spring; to kill and bite, bite deep and rich, sucking the blood. It is bad. . . . Some want to go tearing with teeth and hands into the roots of things, snuffing the earth. It is bad. . . . Some go clawing trees; some go scratching at the graves of the dead; some go fighting with foreheads or feet or claws . . . . Punishment is sharp and sure.

 

[nocho]

Got to say, it's been a while since I last got liberalism in the BCs -- what a map.

And what a player! Even with a nice map I don't think many achieve lib in the BCs. Could you enlighten us mere mortals about your approach and give some stats (pop, bpt, worker count etc)?


As for my own game, of course it will pale in comparison, although to my own mortal standards stats aren't too bad with 11 cities and 74 pop, 11 workers. A turn away from paper and have a GS at hand to bulb edu. Currently in a GA, so 368 bpt @100% / 239 bpt sustainable is a bit inflated. Also running caste now to get some more great people, that also inflates real bpt probably.

No wonders, started on GLib though which is still open. The rest went quite quickly, with Moreau snatching 4 of them including the mids. Might have to pay him a visit soon.

Kept out of any wars so far, Sury declared on Mansa, who called for Suleiman from half a world away to help him out. Sury spread judaism to me rather aggressively (8/11 cities have it) so adopted that just now for OR bonus. Religious differences with the other AIs doesn't seem to affect much so far.

 

[Rusten]

Sure, but I'm still trying to get a grasp on culture victory as it's something I never mastered in the past, so my empire is structured weirdly. I'm not set up for space for instance.
Stats:
9 cities, 55 pop (but 11+10+10 for the 3 culture cities). Planning a tenth to help mature some cottages.
Workers: 15
14 cottages. 6 hamlets. 7 villages. (All of which are in the culture cities).
BPT: 100% = 293 (-85). 1200 gold saved up though. That's without bureaucracy. I switched to FS already for the culture despite not having any towns.
Wonders: Sistine, Great Library, MoM (NE due in 1)
Access to 4 religions.

Strategy: Just a peaceful REX.
I followed my plan in the pre-game thread and settled for the double corn. Found a 3rd which only made it better. [I did do something different because of the corn but I can't remember exactly. I think I may not have whipped the worker or something]
2nd city went to corn+gems as planned and 3rd to the west for PH+corn+2x gold.

 

[nocho]

What did you grab from lib so early? And is the whole point of lib this early the access to FS, rather than the free tech? How many bulbs did you use? Sorry for the interrogatory... Just sounds like an interesting approach to culutre.

Also started with the double corn site btw and was happily surprised by the 3rd corn. 2nd city also at gems, IIRC my 3rd went to the double wheat on the coast to the NW, it was meant to help with REX. The 3rd corn made me farm that one rather than chop a forest as you mentioned in your plan, figured that getting more food online asap couldn't be bad.

 

[Rusten]

I took Nationalism for the Hermitage. No reason to wait. Lib is for both FS and the Hermitage.
1 bulb on Education.

I didn't dare settle the double wheat that early because of the minor civ.

 

[Pangaea]

The sea was angry that day my friends....


At least your sense of humor is still alive and kicking.
If all else fails I'll give you the unofficial bard medal for an entertaining write-up.

Haha, thanks. That's something at least

 

[Pangaea]

No diplomacy is possible with this madman, as the Moreauns are a Minor Civ - that is to say ALL civilizations are always at war with Dr Moreau.

This is in the description of the game, yet I was able to bribe AIs off the war with Moreau. Was it supposed to be like this?

For those AIs, there is an option to bribe them back to war with Moreau, so I assume they are actually at peace now.

 

[kcd_swede]

This is in the description of the game, yet I was able to bribe AIs off the war with Moreau. Was it supposed to be like this?

For those AIs, there is an option to bribe them back to war with Moreau, so I assume they are actually at peace now.

Yes, I should have just let it stand that there is no diplomacy allowed with Dr Moreau. It is possible to bribe AI to stop their war, or to start it again. But YOU will always be at war with Dr Moreau, for better or for worse.

Honestly, I am unsure whether the AP or UN resolutions can stop the war. Maybe you can play around... after the competition, of course.

 

[MrGrandiose]

Such a beautiful start... to much area to settle... REXed to much, got DOW by Pleased neighbor and his army of Spearman without my own strategic resource connected.

GG, fail.

I had such a beautiful GP farm

Moderator Action: Moved to spoiler thread. Please follow the simple rule, once you open the save, you no longer may post in the announcement thread. You must use a spoiler thread. Thanks.

 

[Xcalibrator]

To try something different, I went with Lymo and Rusten's spot and was deLIGHTED to see it provided a 3rd corn. City2 went by the gems, City3 by the silver, City4 west by gold. At 1AD I had 11 cities, 54 pop (thanks to Hanging Gardens), Great Lib, and MoM in 1 turn. Or so I thought. During the IBT, which is technically listed as 0 AD in the log, Sury stole it from me. He shall die!

Mansa and Sury have been in a tiff for awhile and I was only bothered by the Doctor once when he landed 2 chariots by my future NatEpic city with the floodplains, 2 wheat, and corn. It was only guarded by a warrior but I whipped a spear and upgraded the warrior (at the cost of selling Aesth for a pittance to get enough gold) and killed the chariots the next turn.

Currently have 30 techs, with Edu in 4 turns (bulbing 1 Great Sci). 240 bpt @100%, 112 @43% breakeven. I have a Great Artist from Music and another Gt Sci on ice, and built an academy in the gems city with the first Gt Sci. Score is #1 with 746. Looks like Sury will be my main competitor since he has 6 Wonders and the most techs after me. The Islanders have Henge (2840), Oracle (1320), Mids (525), and Chichen (250). Only 1 of my cities has any religion. 2 cotts, 5 hamlets, 7 villages.

My impression is that settling with the 3 corn worked better than SIP, although my capital isn't great at anything but pumping out settlers and workers (9). After Oxford is complete in my gems/commerce city I'll probably move the capital up there, although production is weak and growth is rather slow. I'm saving several forests for the Uni and Oxford.

 

[Seraiel]

Just read up on this spoiler thread after ritiring because swede made sure that the islanders get the only Wonder I'd have needed for an espionage-assisted cultural victory. Reading of Pangaea's game I can really only honor such will to play on, I hope you win an award for that, you can give me the negative version of that one for retiring @ 2240 BC, but with players like Rusten achieving BC-lib I fortunately at least made the right decision with abandoning the game instead of going for a Courthouse-based Great Spy 2000y later which would have had 0 chances to be competetive even towards normal culture. Great game, especially after reading these spoiler-threads and seeing that you probably gave them Stone + Marble + Masonry + Priesthood to make sure that no player gets any of the early Wonders. Probably Moreau had even tripple Gold when I read that he built the Colossus. The idea of putting a minor civ in the game to make AIs more aggressive, ok, but taking away all early Wonders and completely screwing a whole economy style, no comment.