BOTM 13 First Spoiler - Up to 500AD

[kcd_swede]

I setlled on warrior hill, regret not settling coastal. In the REX stage fared pretty well, city2 south on coast/river, city 3 N on coast, city 4 on horse (island2) city 5 on iron (island2). Settling on resources turned out bad, since ai never got into pillaging range anyhow (up to 500ad), and left me with very slow production. Got Oracle and took Theology!!! Why? Figured running Theocracy whole game was needed and at least one religion needed. Prevent Religious loss by using Theo to stop spread of religion might have been worthwhile, but I don't know how likely spontaneous spread of AI relig was going to be. Could have got relig from CoL instead, and more specialists from Caste probably would have helped me keep up in techs too. Oh well, that's not why I'm losing.

Heroic epic in capitol. Beeline Feudalism. Vassalage/Theo/Slavery rest of game. Only had 2 galleys, and faced triremes so that ferryiong to mainland was problematic... cost me bigtime. Took one coastal Mayan city and stocked it with LB's and superhealer warrior from GG. This city was magnet for stacks and repelled a LOT of them fairly easily. Should have been faster getting 2 support cities settled on mainland... lost Pacal city to flanking HA stack just as I settled them. Then went on to lose them. Castes from CoL could have helped me keep up in tech better by running more specialists, but losing my toehold on mainland probably sealed my fate by then anyhow.

By 500AD, I go to turtle mode on my islands, but slow tech compared to combined AI mean that I will eventually lose, and little naval techs means crappy navy... still using galleys and triremes.

Maxed out settling my island settling 3 more cities on big island and one more on little island. At least my crappy production is giving me practise with whipping more effectively...

Already considering retiring the game at 500AD... but stick it out anyhow. Another mistake.

 

[drhirsch]

Definetly one of most fun games I ever played.

I had almost no experience at Always War, so I did read some of articles DS wrote. Tough most of it didn't apply, since we were on an island. Proably to make it somewhat easier for the builder-types, like me ;-)

The capital was build 2W, after all I think this was the best spot. The other 4 cities on my home land were build in a symmetrical way. Very nice done map, again ;-)

Thankfully I noted early that I was on an island, and switched my strategy from warrior spam (I think I made 3 in the beginning) to my usual wonder spam. Since I delayed the worker techs somewhat (early religion), the early warriors were no big loss. I think I build Stonhenge and The Wall, and then did some fast settlers. Managed to get The Lighthouse and The Colossus in the second city (vis-a-vis to London) and some further wonders in the capital, I think The Great Library and Artemis and some other stuff.

I researched Buddhism right away, the early religion (something I usually avoid) definetly helped.

I tried to settle the spot with the wheat west of my island, but did lose the city some 20 turns after. I simply underestimated the brute force the others did throw against it. I did go for the other island at the east and settled it with 2 cities, mainly to claim the resources there. One did get razed, but I resettled it shortly afterwards and the island was never attacked again.

Great game so far and more yet to come ;-)

I should have made more screen shots, this map deserved it.

PS: At 500 AD I had a comfortable tech lead, not counting some crap-techs I simply didn't need. Horse Riding and so on. And as usual, the bunch of settled Great People start to really kick in around this time. I am missing my mids, but they were simply not possible without stone, to much other stuff to do, so I never tried them. The only wonder I was beaten was The Oracle (sic!).

 

[Htadus]

.............Took one coastal Mayan city and stocked it with LB's and superhealer warrior from GG. This city was magnet for stacks and repelled a LOT of them fairly easily. Should have been faster getting 2 support cities settled on mainland... lost Pacal city to flanking HA stack just as I settled them.
...................Already considering retiring the game at 500AD... but stick it out anyhow. Another mistake.

You are tougher than me. If you have not already thought about it, head to Nationalism, Drama, then Education using GS's, and learn Gunpowder. Build the Globe in the city with most food. Build a bunch of Muskets. Capture a coastal Hillside city and fill it with several Muskets. You will need to do this on both sides of the mainland to split the attacks. I usually give only two guys the city garrison promotions while all others get one city city garrison and rest is drill. These guys are killer. In my test game with Island scenario I did this with Toku, Monty, Alex and Stalin. They will give you all the GG you will need. I did have the GW. Good luck. Next I sent two parties of city takers after two civs in the same side. My magnet cities were in north and south and both my teams went east. I did not keep many cities only wonder cities. They only had 3 units at most protecting these cities.

Definetly one of most fun games I ever played.

I had almost no experience at Always War, so I did read some of articles DS wrote. Tough most of it didn't apply, since we were on an island. Proably to make it somewhat easier for the builder-types, like me ;-)

I think DS's advise is still applicable and should be implemented. Specially the magnet cities. If you have more than one to split the AI forces it really help. This also slow down their tech pace. Once they decide to go Amphibious after astro, you will have a bit on your hands. BTS AI are smarter.

 

[oldcivaddict]

Season's greetings to all! Thanks DS for a great map. I had a lot of fun with this one.

Contender save. Founded 2W. Explored early on with work boat. Saw the horses on the next island and decided to get them asap. Saw we were surrounded by enemies that would make a defensive game very difficult. They could strike anywhere! So I thought must play ultra offensive.

1350 BC captured London with archers.
1300 BC destroyed York - no English.

1100 BC captured Aksum with axes.
825 BC destroyed Gondar - no Ethiopians.

470 BC Oracle - took Civ Service.

Great Lighthouse and Colossus to hold up economy.

Next up were the Japs. Destroyed most of their cities with maces and Horse Archers. Left behind weaker units to pillage.

Now it's 500 AD. Just got Guilds for knights. Knights and maces make a great combo. Skipping catapults altogether. The whole idea of suicide catapults is kind of lame anyway and they are sooo slow.

Again, thanks a lot DS for an unusual and very nicely designed map!

 

[Conquistador 63]

DS, this fantastic map and setup was among the best Xmas gift I got! Unfortunately, being a poor warmonger I did not handle it as nicely as some of the other players here.

I settled 2W on the warrior hill and now regret it, should've settled coastal. I went worker first. Tech path was and agri/BW/AH/wheel/fish/sailing/hunting/archery (1650BC). Obviously non-optimal for early rushes, given the lack of resources. Only early success was denying copper to Liz. Also I neglected exploring East early and did not discover it was a resource island until late BC's. Because of this I settled a city on top of horses, in a pathetic city site near Aksum, ca. 1500BC just to secure this resource. This worked as my "magnet city" until 500AD.

I thought things would get pretty ugly soon so I decided to get a few wonders just for fun. Philosophical Gandhi could make some goood use of them. I took MC from Oracle (975BC) and whipped a forge there ASAP to run an engineer. The old gambit worked and I burned the GE for the Pyramids in 455BC. Switched to Rep, then tech CoL, getting Confu. I chopped GLib (265AD), then NE in Delhi. I burned another couple GE's in Chichen Itza (430AD) and the AP (445AD), mainly to deny those to the AI. I've been elected pope, not sure if this will help me in any way.

I'm currently the score leader, but my economy is in bad shape, breaking even @0% but getting 85bpt from specialists. Maybe I should cut expenses by firing some (or all) of the dozen workers I got from the AI?!?

 

[voe]

strange thing happened to me. went for oracle MC slingshot for triemes to defend the home islands. Then suddenly 3 AI galleys loaded with swordmen managed to enter an ocean square where they could not be attacked by my triemes, next turn invaded a undefended city. How come the AI canb enter ocean squares and I can't?

 

[Niklas]

Galleys can enter ocean squares within their own cultural borders. That goes for yours too.

 

[oncable]

I agree with oldcivaddict about suicide catapults. The whole notion of a siege weapon flinging itself against city walls seems ludicrous. This is a fairly recent change in Civ history. Earlier versions had more realistic "bombard" siege weapons and the suicide capability came in with Civ 4. Maybe it reflects current terrorist tactics in world news but it still seems a strange concept.

 

[Gosha190]

Merry Christmas to ALL!

my aim is fast domination or gold medal or both or ...nothing

Settled 1S.
Cs from Oracle around 1150BC,
700Bc PYRS,
650BC GLight and 6 cities, Toku still alive unlike other AI.
150BC Colossus
55AD Oxford, some turns later Glib, NE, HG

500AD 8 cities ( I remember last space race and my mistake with over expancion!) I'v got some GP, 2 academies, 600 bulbs per turn max and 200 - min, average science 400 bulbs.

 

[Htadus]

Merry Christmas to ALL!

.............Toku still alive unlike other AI.
...
500AD 8 cities ( I remember last space race and my mistake with over expancion!)

Did you keep any of the AI cities? Who were your first targets? In the hind sight, I wish I looked up on Mayan UU requirements and gotten rid of pacal early instead of Hatty. I kept on pillaging his copper but the damn UU keep on popping up and killing my chariots....Major Dah.. My axes that went after Hatty could have taken cared of this early. Oh well.

BTW I hope you get one of the goals.

 

[Gosha190]

Did you keep any of the AI cities?

Yes, I did. I did keep ALL captured cities except one - second Hatty city. So I got 3 nice cities!

Who were your first targets?

Liz, surely! 3 archers and 1 warrior was enough to kill 2 warriors.

In the hind sight, I wish I looked up on Mayan UU requirements and gotten rid of pacal early instead of Hatty.

He was my second target. 1 archer and 1 axe killed 2 warriors without problems. I did not see his UU

My research path:
farm - fish - sailing - wheel - hunting - pottery - archery - BW -...

 

[Htadus]

He was my second target. 1 archer and 1 axe killed 2 warriors without problems. I did not see his UU

Very Nice. In my test game I attacked Alex with 4 archers and lost all 4. So I was a bit timid. But luckily in the real game Liz was not as lucky. She did have a second city. Also in the game when I attacked Ethiopia, that city only had one warrior and likely going to build a second city to west when my amphibious attack captured it. I guess I got lucky.

My game plan was also to open up two opposite fronts but the proximity led me to attack the nearest civs.

My research path:
farm - fish - sailing - wheel - hunting - pottery - archery - BW -...

wheel and pottery before Archery? Risky, is it not, to wait so long for archer rush? But I guess if I did not go after Poly it would have been the better route.

I am going to test in this game what happen if I get conquest on the same turn my cities go Legendary cultural. (hopefully well before 1750AD.)

 

[Gosha190]

wheel and pottery before Archery? Risky, is it not, to wait so long for archer rush?

my start production: worker, workboat, warrior, galley, warrior, archer, archer, archer...

There was no any risk - I stole workers from Liz and Pacal(?)
I was not aimed to capture their cities anyway. And more: I was surprised when met warriors as defenders.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Yes, I did. I did keep ALL captured cities except one - second Hatty city. So I got 3 nice cities!

That's an impressive science rate you quoted in your other post.

Out of interest, two questions:
1. I assume your captured AI cities were all on the surrounding ring landmass - did that not give you problems with high overseas city maintenance costs?
2. You seem to have done a very good job of combining military expansion - which usually destroys science - with maintaining a very high science rate. Any thoughts on how you managed to get both of those going simultaneously?

 

[voe]

Galleys can enter ocean squares within their own cultural borders. That goes for yours too.

Didn't know that

Well, i guess I must say, well played Zara. I'll record a loss (might win after all but will replay for fun). A question. I built the statue of Zeus with an engineer, is there anyway to check how the AI's will be affected by WW? Thought it a was a nice game to leverage this wonder

 

[DynamicSpirit]

There's no way in the game that I know of to check how much war weariness an AI is actually suffering from. However, in always war games, war weariness is close to zero. Since doubling 'close-to-zero' still leaves you close-to-zero, I would guess that the statue of Zeus would have minimal affect.

 

[Homunculus]

There's no way in the game that I know of to check how much war weariness an AI is actually suffering from.

Are you saying the "war weariness = X" (hovering over an enemy in the score list) doesn't give you any information... Or were you not aware of that feature?

Of course, I only really noticed it yesterday

 

[Gosha190]

Out of interest, two questions:
1. I assume your captured AI cities were all on the surrounding ring landmass - did that not give you problems with high overseas city maintenance costs?
2. You seem to have done a very good job of combining military expansion - which usually destroys science - with maintaining a very high science rate. Any thoughts on how you managed to get both of those going simultaneously?

Sorry! I fogot about N-E AI!!! I destroyed his capital and second city too. He was my 3-d victim.

The main keys of high research rate and commerce in my game:
1.I played with only 6 cities up to 100BC to ensure high research rate. All of them was coastal, except Hatty capital.
2.early pyrs for representation - 725BC
3.early CLh - 650BC
4.early Colossus - ...around 150BC
5.early Oxford - 55AD.
6.I moved my capital to the Pacal capital (?, S-E from our' homeland ) after 300AD before I began settlers spamming.
7.early IW and calendar - just after CS!
8.calendar and OrgRel let me use slavery a lot. All my cities got granary, lighthose, lib, forge, courthuose before 100BC. And more - they was able to build university in a 2 turns (by rush, surely).

At the early beginning (just after 3000BC) I built 4 cottages to speed up CoL and CS (1125BC). 1 cottage was built in my capital and other 3 - in my second city SW to the capital: 3FP + fish.

 

[Niklas]

Are you saying the "war weariness = X" (hovering over an enemy in the score list) doesn't give you any information... Or were you not aware of that feature?

That shows how much you suffer from a war with them. What DS said was that there's no way to know how much they suffer from the war with you.

War wariness isn't close to zero in AW, I felt it in this game. Not sure the AIs did though, only Toku really survived long enough to have a chance for that. (And mystery guy of course, but that's beyond this spoiler).

 

[finansist]

Marry Christmas to everyone.
I don’t have many achievements to be praised. It is bad beginning, too much time left to the searches for resources. Enemies are too strong to conquer them now. From the beginning I planned cultural victory, but I was not sure. It was a big mistake do not destroy their troops still they are weak. They change by sciences and all of them are friends for one reason - all hate me (I do not love them too).

P.S. Gosha190, nice work!