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BOTM 13 First Spoiler - Up to 500AD

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Game of the Month' started by DynamicSpirit, Dec 23, 2008.

  1. Homunculus

    Homunculus Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2003
    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Good thing I put it as a question and not a "hah, I do know" :D
     
  2. Adama

    Adama Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2007
    Messages:
    135
    Gandhi was persuaded to put on his ‘big girl panties’ and play the normal Contender save [although I am sure that he should be playing the Adventurer download file]. That is what he is wearing in those pictures, isn’t it?

    The great Indian empire settled two squares west on the ‘warrior hill.’ As was pointed out in the pre-game discussion, this was probably an ideal site; however, for me, it meant that I did not found any more cities north of it on the island through 500AD.

    I did not scout correctly, and did not identify the copper deposit until well after Lizzy founded London and her culture captured it in the allure of Big Ben and London’s cultural phenomenon. But, the real problem was that I thought I could settle right next to the copper and be able to claim it. Not so much… just didn’t work out for Gandhi & Co. It seems at 500AD that the only way I will ever be able to wrest that copper away is to pry it from Lizzy’s cold dead hands.

    I farmed the “copper-colored” Dye in “Fool’s Copper City”… and most other available squares at the Capital. Built cottages down near Fool’s Copper City on the floodplains. Built a third city on a coastal hill in the southeast part of the island. Only three cities on the mainland…

    Built the Oracle and the sling shot netted me Feudalism. Vassalage and Serfdom both came in handy … and Hereditary Rule along the way. But, the Oracle’s Great Prophet GPPs certainly polluted my gene pool. I did manage one scientist from a library in another city, which founded an Academy in the capital, but so far I have spawned four Great Priests, the last three of which (after bulbing one tech) have settled in the capital (further increasing the odds of not getting a scientist, one supposes?).

    No land battles have taken place, but Gandhi’s navy (Triremes) have sank several Gallies. He is building Triremes (3) and Gallies (3) in those two southern cities. Gandhi has (will soon have?) Guilds and is working toward Gunpowder next. I’ll go back and get Optics (for the Caravels) and then Alpha>Currency> etc. to move on toward Rifling (via Banking and its Mercantilism).

    Now Gandhi is worried about what the AIs are assembling by way of landing parties… He certainly hasn’t been able to accumulate enough ‘extra’ war units to send anywhere… He expresses respectful and non-covetous envy toward those who have. But, he is moving [all too slowly] in the general direction of violent intervention instead of non-violent non-intervention.

    He has never before {did I say ' ever ' } played ‘always war’ and can only wonder whatever happened to ‘always peace’… He looks at me and mutters words like ‘noob’ (or is he saying ‘newb’?) and “insolent ignorant %#*& untrained undisciplined *(&^%$# grasshopper” … well maybe he didn’t call me ALL of those … but, he’s … r I g h t 'cause, update, the copper mentioned above (not a spoiler) was actually Dye, I think. [this was the Dye resource at the southwest tip of the mainland]. I just misinterpreted the ‘resource’ icon on the map … for virtually the whole game. I didn’t even discover the error of my ways until late in the game (not a spoiler). It did however set the course of my early game as you can tell from my write-up above. [and... you can file this under the category, " ... darned if I would have told that !! ]

    Ever the QN,
    Adama
     
  3. Mundungu

    Mundungu Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Messages:
    60
    Well I handled this one pretty badly, thinking on first develop my Island and the one to the east, concentrating on keeping a tech lead and staying master of the seas.

    A weak attempt to capture London was successful, but I guess much too late, a few huge stacks later (even Pacal sent troups that far south), I lost London without being able to regain a foothold on the main continent.

    In short I gave up the game sometimes in the 1000 or so ...

    However I think the map and game were great, and I replayed the map 4 times already, eventually managing a win on the fourth attempt.

    Great way of learning how to play.

    Main lesson : take as many AIs out as soon as possible, they love each other so much, the potential of development is almost exponential to their number, and it is easier to defend againt 2 or 3 stacks than 4 or 5 ....

    In Any case, Thanks DS for a great map, while my wife could curse you that I spend almost 50h of my rare vacation on playing (yet again Civ 4) ....
     
  4. srad

    srad King

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2007
    Messages:
    627
    Location:
    Heidelberg, Germany
    Short summary: Overexpanded and did not disturb the development of the AI enough!

    Settled south to have both gems in the FatCross, built a second coastal city to produce gallies to reach the main land. Settled two cities there, both east of the starting location, one by the iron, one by the copper. Took two of Hattys cities with three swordsmen and then the maintenance costs broke my economy. Also I realized to late that I had to pay oversea maintenance for the cities on the main land.

    It took ages to research currency and I had two work every single tile with a coin on it to avoid strike. This game period was the tombstone for me. So I hope this is not spoiler: I resigned later in the game because I made some other bad war movements and I was behind in tech.

    I also knew that it is critical to cripple all reachable AI as soon as possible in an AW game but I did not do that. Why? Maybe the somehow isolated start irritated me to much :) and I am weak in shipping units.

    Didn't replayed this but I suppose a better game would look like this:

    - Ship some archers to the different AIs asap
    - Have a look on the maintenance :)
    - Do not walk with stacks in the “open field” better travel through woods and over hills.

    So I enjoyed this AW game and maybe one day there is an other one.
     
  5. jesusin

    jesusin Ant GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2005
    Messages:
    4,135
    Location:
    Madrid
    jesusin, contender. Goal: Gold medal.


    Phase 1: Initial expansion

    I started the game settling on the warrior hill (never regretted it, it is the best site available for the capital), building Worker first for quick development while the warrior stayed home, and thinking on the lines of Agri-Hunt-AH then lots of chariots or lots og Archers, depending on horses.

    Started exploring as late as 2950BC, but my exploring sacrifice paid off, since there was so little to explore. By 2550BC I was doing an excess of 7fpt and 10hpt.

    Research: Agri-AH-BW-Wheel
    Builds: Worker-War-War-Worker-Settler
    2nd city SE, rice, clams, gems
    3rd city SW, farmed the FPs for a GPFarm that never got a NE
    4th city N, crab+2cows
    fish was ignored


    Phase 2: Strategic decisions

    I wanted to play a fast conquest in order to get to victory asap.

    Research: fishing-pottery-writting-sailing-Feudalism from Oracle
    I liked the Feudalism beeline because cheap warriors (I build a dozen) under HR can take care of happiness while Feud allows for Vassaillage for free units and extra experience. Also, I already had my strength6 unit ready to go. Time to move on the offensive. Next strategic step, Guilds.

    Academy build 1350BC.

    1000BC stats: 4cities, 17pop. fhg=47, 24, 64. 39sust bpt, 85g.no str resources, 1happy, 5health. 3Wor, 5War, WB, Gall. Lib, 2Monu, 3Gra. 10cpt, 0GPPpt. 0+WW,0NW,1GP. 8techs: almost Feud, BW, AH, Sail, Wri, Pott. 2/2 cottages. 0civs killed. 2.5hours.


    Phase3: On the use of longbows

    My first 3 lb hastily travelled in my single galley to Zara's capital in such a way that I unloaded 2 the same turn the other one boarded the same galley. However, Zara whipped a second Archer. I was so pleased with my speed moves that I didn't realised the need to change plan, my first lb died causing no damage and then I saw in horror what I had done.

    I retired from there and navigated E, taking Gondar were there was a single warrior, as in most cities I had visited. My assault force was digged in that city, hoping to act as a magnet and keep everybody busy sending troops there. It didn't work for a long time, the first attack coming as late as 250AD.

    From that point on, I decided to change my use of lbs. I sent 1 to each AI, pillaging everything in sight. They never attacked, not even when I was in the open. It worked very well, delaying their development and putting them in a defensive mindset.

    Pairs of lbs tryed their luck, with success against Hatty and defeated (twice at 80% for finally not taking a city) against Pacal. Stealing workers from ships and from my hills2 lb was very gratifying.

    Founded 3 cities in the E island.
    HBR and GreatLH in the BC.

    1AD stats: 8cities, 40pop. fhg=126,37,129. 82sust bpt. 8Wor, 27units(Swo,lb), 2Gal. horses, marble, Iron. 2happy, 7health. 33cpt,4spt, 14GPPpt. 2WW,0NW,1GP,0GG. 20techs: Wri, IW, MC, HBR, Feud. 0reli. 11/13 cottages. 0 civs killed. 7,5hours.


    Phase4: On the offensive again

    This time I didn't hastily attack with my first units, but prepared 2 stacks of some 8 units and sent one W and other E. The W one was succesful and took the 2 remaining Hatty cities. The E one failed to take Pacal's capital with 3 consecutive RNG strokes. Pacal rearmed and killed the rest of my stack.

    The 2nd GP was a GS, that settled in the capital. The third one a GE, kept in ice, I didn't want to build the Pyramids, still available, because I wouldn't change from HR to Repre due to happiness.

    Researched up to Guilds (385AD), sent my first Knights to London and took it (Knights against Archers, what a laugh) with SH and a shrine in it.
    At 500AD I got Maths for chopping Knights and prepared for whipping Knights all around for the final push.

    500AD stats: 12 cities, -11gpt at 0%, 6kni, GE not for Pyra. fpg 168,91,63. The unknown is researching like hall. Guilds, no Currency, no CoL. 1killed.




    Fantastic set up, I'm having a blast, 3 hurras for the map creator!
     
  6. civilizer

    civilizer Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    8
    Happy New Year to all and a big thank you to the staff and the creator of this map. A lot of fun over the holidays. I've been playing Civilization since V2 and I just found out about this great site.

    For my first game of the month I chose Contender start.

    The gory details:

    I settled 1 south of start position to be coastal and get both food sources. Early research path Ag - Fishing - Sailing - Archery.

    2200 BC captured London with archers. 1 enemy gone.

    1900 BC captured Aksum with Axemen. 2 enemies gone.

    1525 BC destroyed all Egyptian cities. 3 enemies gone.

    1325 BC destroyed all Mayan cities. 4 enemies gone.

    170 BC destroyed all Japanese cities. 5 gone and have continent to myself.

    Built Great Lighthouse and Colossus. All cities are/will be coastal.

    Now the focus is simply on expansion and research. Researching to guilds for knights then Astronomy for galleons. To speed research aiming for education (for universities and Oxford) - It's 340AD and I just got liberalism - nationalism.
    7 cities producing 200 bulbs per turn, most finishing off universities. Somewhere out there is one more civilization and he's only reachable across the ocean. Hopefully knights will be enough to handle whatever defenses they have.
     
  7. Ronnie1

    Ronnie1 Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2006
    Messages:
    7,613
    Location:
    47.48N 117.77W
    Very impressive civilizer!
     
  8. da_Vinci

    da_Vinci Gypsy Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,182
    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    A challenge to be sure!

    Contender save, settled 2 SW on hill for both gems in capital, jungle took the dyes early but I got early gem mine up.

    Hunting first in case early archer was needed, then AH

    Founded Bombay in SW turn 60, my galley producer.

    Later founded on NW corner, NE corner.

    Turn 127 and 129 stole workers from Yaqob with archer off of galleys (825 to 775 BC)

    In 700 BC (turn 132) I founded a city overseas, trying to get the horses there ... but first the tile flipped on culture, and later it has been pillaged.

    That city has been an AI magnet ... at least 4 AI have repeatedly sent stacks to attack it ... I beelined construction for cats and feudalism for lb given lack of metals. I now have some CG3 + Drill 3 lbs in that city ... :D Walls are my friend in this one! ;)

    No landings of enemy troops on my home island ... yet. Says someting about how the AI hates amphibious operations, at least when is has a reachable by land target ...

    My NW city built the mids on turn 198 (370 AD), helped by a city founded on stone overseas in the north, but lost to an eventual attack. I did keep it long enough to get the mids done.

    My NE city is working on G Lib as I reach 500 AD ... keep fingers crossed!

    Need to get to gunpowder via education, and would like to find some metals (or some ivory would be nice). Plan might be to settle/capture some "decoy" cities overseas ... if I can keep the AI occupied retaking those (or trying to), I can keep the pressure off of my mainland ...

    If the AI were smart enough to bring more cats, my overseas city would have fallen by now, and the homeland would be in trouble.

    The game is certainly in doubt ... which makes this an exciting game! :goodjob:

    dV
     
  9. AgedOne

    AgedOne Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    1,213
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hampshire, UK
    As has been pointed out here more than once, this is not a simple Prince level game! Not for me, anyhow. The 'always war' and the setting contrive to make it a serious challenge.

    I had tried a practice game, and found it very wearing. My natural way of playing the game is not suited to always war, as I have to have peaceful times to grow, research etc. But, hey! You can always learn to play a different style, surely?

    I changed my mind about the start location, eventually settling to the west of the start, but not on the coast. Not sure if this was the wisest location, in retrospect, as I could have done with sea access very early.

    Of course it turned out that we were on an island. For a moment I thought we were connected to Liz in the SW corner, as I found her borders on our land. But next turn I had realised the truth. We were sat there like a bullseye in the middle of a target. If we didn't go after the enemies, then before too long they were all going to come piling in on us from all sides.

    After a couple of tech to help us grow, I prioritised fishing and sailing.

    Meantime, I settled this island with 2 more cities - Bombay and Vijayanagara - making sure they were coastal.

    The first seafarers revealed that the land to our east was another island, vacant but containing horses, gold and marble, so the next city (Patiliputra) went over there.

    Explorers also took a good look at the western land, and realised that it wasn't safe, being connected to everything. Primarily Liz to the south and Hattie to the west, but allowing everyone else access too.
    I found that enemies were strangely reluctant to kill my scout! Twice they stood right beside military units, which ignored them and walked on by. Finally, just as I thought they had a charmed life, someone popped up and killed them. They had mapped out quite a bit of the western and south-western regions by then.

    The only visible copper that looked like I could use it was on the western land, so I planted Calcutta on top of it and got ready to defend it against all-comers.

    Iron gave me a few headaches. Due to a stupid bit of timing, I planted a second city (Agra) on the eastern island just before I learned Iron Working. Naturally I found that I had missed the iron on that island with both cities!
    I could see there was iron on the eastern land also, a little further over to the north-west of Calcutta. This led me to plan an expedition to plant a second western city beside or on top of it, and that needed a strong force to keep everybody off it.

    After Calcutta had been settled was when the first action started to take place. Since this was about 160 turns into the game, it was evident I was having a quieter time than I could have predicted. Also, I was being typically slow in getting stuck into the enemies.

    First action was Liz sending a galley to drop an axe and spear off by Vijayanagara. The axe was easy meat, but as my army at that time was heavily based on mounted units, I had a tougher job getting rid of the spear. I was thankful that I had just got use of copper.

    Then Liz plonked a city down on the western land, due south of Calcutta. Well, it wasn't there for long! Something like 2 turns. Sadly, of course, it auto-razed.

    Coming towards the end of this first session, I spied a swordsman coming out of Hattie's lands and upped the priority on my own efforts to settle the iron.
    Then, just as I was distracted with this, Zara chose the moment to zip an attack force up towards Calcutta via London. I had plenty of mounted units ready to ambush them, plus my new axes. But Zara wasn't going to walk straight into the trap, and played cat & mouse with me - keeping just out of range. It was all a bit 'phoney war'.

    Just at the end of the session, Lahore was founded on the western iron and I could begin preparing my swordsmen for action.

    Sadly, this was just too many cities for my fragile economy, and research dropped frighteningly low.

    Stopping for contemplation I felt that I had been horribly cautious in this period of the game, trying to grab land & resources and hang on to them rather than raging out against the many enemies.
    I have a reasonable area under my control now, but it has taken far too long, and research is woefully slow. I need courthouses now, but Code of Laws is still some way off! And this is 500 AD!!
     
  10. BigChiefLizzy

    BigChiefLizzy Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2007
    Messages:
    292
    Location:
    UK
    Founded first city on warrior hill, cautiously scouted around and realised it was an island start. Got 3 more cities NE/SW/SE up and left them undefended for a while I tech'd to archery.

    Tried for pyramids in capital (foolishly I think in hindsight), lost it, tried for oracle in NE city and lost that as well :(

    Had to get MC the normal research route, but glad I did, have managed to sink 6+ enemy galleys mainly english, so have not had an enemy landing yet.

    Got GLH and Colossus in SW city, lots of whipping involved. Started building temple of Artemis in capital, intending to switch later so when an AI builds it I get the gold (as it's not much use in an always war game). Of course I forgot to change to something else, and built the only wonder in my capital which I didn't really want :(


    I wish I had attacked london ASAP as others have done, I think I am going to get overwhelmed soon...
     
  11. timmy827

    timmy827 King

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    658
    Location:
    Sunnyvale, CA
    Settled on warrior hill. Additional cities on home island were 3N of there, then the SE and SW locations where I'm sure everyone else went. One city on eastern island (for marble) and one to west (copper+ivory; missed the iron as I did not have that tech yet).
    Liz somehow failed to research Archery by the time I was dropping axes next to London...bye bye! It was Jewish holy city which I embraced. Chopped out the lighthouse there (absolutely necessary to keep research moving) and moved palace there once I had >5 cities on mainland. Went west and crushed Hatty next. At 500AD I've just taken Aksum amphibiously, and Egyptian force is just about done moving east to join the battle; Zara is gassed and I bet only Toku will put up much fight (Pacal's forces are pretty laughable; have not seen any metal-using units from him).

    The colonial costs are absolutely killer, and still serious even after the palace move. I had to use TGL, shrine, and bulbing Alpha with GS (for building research) to avoid total collapse. At 500AD have just gotten CoL and am way behind some (like ZPV) in tech; still want HBR for elephants, calendar, Aesth->Lit for HE, plus medieval techs. AI's are pretty far behind though so I should be ok to roll up the rest. One rival still unmet, which is odd.
     
  12. Skurn

    Skurn Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Messages:
    102
    Location:
    Paris
    After sending my warrior NW, I went to settle on the west coast 2N of pigs, grabbing pigs, cows, seafood, and several grassland hills.
    I didn't need farming for a while, so I took the shortest route to AH through hunting. I quickly saw I was isolated, so did not need early military.

    Cities built on mainland :
    Bombay (2325BC) : 2 gems, dye, seafood, rice
    Vijayanagara (2100BC) : 4FP, fish
    Pataliputra (1125BC) : fish, corn ==> GP farm
    .. and to the west :
    Varanasi (1025BC) : copper
    Agra (350BC) : iron, elephants
    Calcutta (160AD) : on the hills west of Varanasi, to block Egypt there.

    Military :
    I sent my first galley with 2 archers to London around 1250BC to steal 2 workers, pillage, and cripple. Combat odds against 2 defending warriors were just too small to try.. By the time I brought more archers, London had archers too so I had to wait for axes.
    They positionned near the city 550 BC and on that same turn London got a 20% increased cultural defense.. The combat odds dropped drastically; I tried anyway but didn't make it, with somewhat bad luck with the RNG.
    So I add to wait for swords.. The cultural pop really messed me up, I should have been faster.
    I finally took London in 50BC but I have to take on a constant flow of ethiopian, japanese and to a lesser extent mayan and egyptian. I let them take London to eliminate their stacks in the city. Then I proceeded to York in 520AD, and England is down to one junk city that will quickly fall.

    Techwise, I was first to COL in 290BC, Math (85AD), construction (355AD). But AI have longbows so I'll have a hard time taking hills city even with cats and swords/elephants (need HBR for that).
    I doubt I can win this one; if I had taken London on my first attempt, that would have been a different matter.
    But now I will just spend too much hammers to capture hill cities.

    I'll probably try to beeline engineering now, trebs might help where catapults can't.
    I'm finishing with currency then I'll switch back to slavery to whip some markets. But I still don't have Alpha, Aesth, Monarchy..
     
  13. darreljnz

    darreljnz Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Messages:
    49
    This will be my first xOTM submitted, my first BtS game, my first epic game and my first always war game. I usually play Prince level so was not liking my chances - and I still don't!

    Settled in place (IIRC). As soon as I found a) island start and b) no horses, copper or iron I made it my mission to REX to the eastern island and make sure nobody ever set foot on my land.

    I made the classic mistake of irresponsible REXing so I have 8 cities, all founded by me, and at around 400AD had strikes which I am only now recovering from. Just got calendar so happiness cap has finally been raised above my petty size 5 and 6 cities.

    No religion, no big battles to speak of (just pillaging), doing a good job keeping my shores clean of AI as only two AIs have coastal cities. Severely behind in tech - hoping currency will jump start my economy and then will shoot for monarchy to bump up my happiness some more.

    There is a 95% chance I'll be out-teched and my galleys will be mopped up by superior ships at which point my civ will rapidly fall. There is a 5% chance my economy will recover, my cities will flourish and I can aim for a late game conquest - but I doubt it.

    Given I usually play at a lower level I'm happy with my performance although its another game where a) I haven't gone to war early enough and b) I lost focus on goals and irresponsibly REXed.

    Good to be playing with everyone tho and really interesting to see what other peoples strategies were. I didn't even consider an early archer rush! Not enough playing on epic I suppose.
     
  14. Harok

    Harok Vagabond

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2005
    Messages:
    271
    I had a similar start to jesusin and used the Oracle for a Feudalism slingshot for the civics and to pump out a ton of Longbows to harass all the other civs. I then headed towards Knights and started wiping people out.

    A fun map and I was so happy to get a BotM with no annoying random events but I probably won't finish because of time constraints this week.:(
     
  15. toller pretzl

    toller pretzl A 1000 years of broccoli

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2004
    Messages:
    394
    I'm in the same boat :( At 500 AD I am in the process of taking out the 4th civ. If the 6th civ requires galleons to reach, I have no chance to finish it today. Well, I'm a slow player anyway, so if I play more than one GOTM this is bound to happen sometimes.
     
  16. jesusin

    jesusin Ant GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2005
    Messages:
    4,135
    Location:
    Madrid
    Why settle 1S?
    Compared with settling in place it loses a turn and a forest :confused:
     
  17. cammell

    cammell Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2008
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Bydgoszcz / Poland
    You get both gems, moreover you dont have to wait till iron working to mine first one, but just for city borders grow. (assuming having worker)

    Im trying this scenario over and over, now i see, that CS sling and conquest with maceman is a bit too late, have tech superority but my forces are outnumbered.
     
  18. Gosha190

    Gosha190 King

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    973
    Location:
    St. Petersburg
    that place was highlighted as "good place to settl" and i hoped that i can find somewhat useful there: fish or horses or anything else.
     
  19. jesusin

    jesusin Ant GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2005
    Messages:
    4,135
    Location:
    Madrid
    But you don't know there are more gems S when you start the game. :confused:


    You gambler!!! :lol:
    But there was no blue circle on the 1S tile, was it? :confused:
     
  20. Gosha190

    Gosha190 King

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    973
    Location:
    St. Petersburg
    You are wrong! There WAS blue circle :D! (or "found city" icon was highlighted... I'v forgotten)

    PS there was too little recources in the start position and at the same time I did not want leave sea coast. But you are right - I'm gambler... and you too:lol:
     

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