[BTS] BOTM 197 - Genghis Kahn, Emperor - First spoiler - 1AD

[Noble Zarkon]

In hindsight, I made the right choice on the sol warlord. He has a chance to survive a long time.

From my testing I would agree, the first strikes make a real difference and don't reduce the chances of the next GG.

 

[WastinTime]

My initial strategy was to steal techs with espionage. I wanted GW for the GSpy points.

Yeah, I gave up on stealing techs when GWall went T24 (cus Deity), but now I regret that. I think this was the perfect game to go all out esp.
No tech trading is the #1 reason. AI getting bonus techs #2.
Castle, Jails, Nationhood, IntelAgency = +150%. That's like Oxford + library + University in every city.

Security Bureau! Woulda been first time ever building that cus a spy-culture game doesn't go that late (to Democracy).
Off the top of your head, any idea what a security bureau does?

Did I miss any espionage boosters?

I may have to play this whole game again and do this strategy.
Go for 20 great spies.
Space race of course.

 

[WastinTime]

Incidentally, the AP went to another AI. Theoretically I could capture it and win a quick AP.

This is probably my plan too.
I was thinking that a minor civ maybe cannot build the AP.? And don't even vote?
But they do appear on the members screen, so I guess they can.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Yeah, I gave up on stealing techs when GWall went T24 (cus Deity), but now I regret that. I think this was the perfect game to go all out esp.
No tech trading is the #1 reason. AI getting bonus techs #2.
Castle, Jails, Nationhood, IntelAgency = +150%. That's like Oxford + library + University in every city.

Security Bureau! Woulda been first time ever building that cus a spy-culture game doesn't go that late (to Democracy).
Off the top of your head, any idea what a security bureau does?

Did I miss any espionage boosters?

I may have to play this whole game again and do this strategy.
Go for 20 great spies.
Space race of course.

My economic engine sounds backwards compared to yours. I didn’t think of Colossus. I did do Monarchy for HR but not as seriously as you. Like p8-9 or so. But I need the coins for eps. I guess I could focus on that first.

The problem is, once he brings an SOD, it’s game over. So your strategy may be best.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

I was thinking that a minor civ maybe cannot build the AP.? And don't even vote?
But they do appear on the members screen, so I guess they can.

Oops, I was hoping they would not be eligible.

 

[Xcalibrator]

Yay, I beat Mitchum at something! He lost his SoL on T47, but I did it on T45 when two frigates emerged from the fog up to the northeast where I was exploring, hugging the coast for the extra 10% defense bonus. Lotta good it did me. So I, too, have little knowledge of the Pretenders. Anyway, 10 cities and 33 pop at 1 AD. I took one city from Justy in 400 BC with my keshiks but they weren't enough to take any more. I'm currently working on Math. In retrospect, I probably should have pursued Alphabet earlier to enable beaker building; tech rate is painfully slow. I figure I'll finish off Justy when I get catapults and then turn to Darius. This game will definitely be a challenge.

 

[Mitchum]

Yay, I beat Mitchum at something!

It looks like you're well ahead of me all around. I hope I'll find the time to finish this game but it looks like a long uphill slog and at the moment I don't have the time or motivation right now. This is indeed a tough game even with all of the extra goodies. It will be interesting to see what victory conditions everyone chooses.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

Yay, I beat Mitchum at something! He lost his SoL on T47, but I did it on T45 when two frigates emerged from the fog up to the northeast where I was exploring, hugging the coast for the extra 10% defense bonus. Lotta good it did me. So I, too, have little knowledge of the Pretenders. Anyway, 10 cities and 33 pop at 1 AD. I took one city from Justy in 400 BC with my keshiks but they weren't enough to take any more. I'm currently working on Math. In retrospect, I probably should have pursued Alphabet earlier to enable beaker building; tech rate is painfully slow. I figure I'll finish off Justy when I get catapults and then turn to Darius. This game will definitely be a challenge.

This game, I am trying a simple-minded strategy "beeline the UU, kill them all , don't worry too much about economy & tech" that seemed to worked very well for me in the AW BOTM (#195). So by 1AD, I have also 10 cities, but mostly settled by Darius By 1AD, I took last of his cities and the Persian empire is now dead. Keshiks rule!

I debated whether to go after Justy or Darius first, capitols roughly the same distance, I decided Darius for logistic and wonder reasons (he managed to get SH in my game!), but later actually regretted it, for a reason I probably should not disclose in 1AD spoilers .

Sadly, I made a stupid mistake that disqualified me from submitting this game, but it is so interesting that I am playing on - mostly - by GoTM rules.

I am very curious if a simple technique would work, these are Emperor AIs plus Super-Mongols, so falling behind in tech is a true concern, and conquest takes LOTS of time due to logistics. Turns are also becoming very long, so not sure if I will have time to finish, but following all reports with great interest. Seems that most decided to build economy and peacefully expanded first. I researched AH early, to see if keshik rush was a possibility and decided to go for land-based economy, since getting wonders seemed almost hopeless in this game. Even running espionage economy seems difficult in this game, which I would normally consider to catch up.

 

[Xcalibrator]

May I suggest that a 3rd spoiler thread, after 1 AD, might be in order here?

 

[MarleysGh0st]

May I suggest that a 3rd spoiler thread, after 1 AD, might be in order here?

That's what the final spoiler is for. What's different here?

 

[Xcalibrator]

That's what the final spoiler is for. What's different here?

I think there's the potential for very long games here--was just hoping for something to break it up a bit.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

I think there's the potential for very long games here--was just hoping for something to break it up a bit.

I've created another spoiler thread.

 

[Pangaea]

I crapped the bed on #198, so started on this one. Been fun so far. Have met 3 AIs, the two mentioned plus another. But at some point I got too concerned and brought the SoL back. It was also rather lucky to survive the onslaught of a two-unit Frigates stack. Was 100% sure it was gone. In fairness I didn't know the first combat was at 4.4% for the attacker, but the next was 43%, so basically a coinflip.

Spoiler :

Think I've sussed out the identity of the 3 AIs I've found, but hard to be sure. Have not seen any Senggum cities, but did see a scout and frigate on T2, and got very scared. Killed the scout and sent the SoL in the opposite direction. Noticed that Russia got wiped out in 3880BC. At first I wondered if it was a freak occurrence, but eventually concluded it was planned by the mapmaker (and now read it happened in your games too). Incredibly glad I happened to spawnbust the starting area pretty well, because my heart jumped into my throat when I noticed barb horse archers. Looks like everybody started with HBR, including the barbs (I've not met the last AI).

Later, when I was bringing the SoL back home, I noticed a Senggum explore workboat by the coast. Went to kill it. Then it ran away -- ACROSS OCEAN. So that's confirmation that the bugger starts with Astronomy. Which of course makes me terrified he'll suddenly send a huge flotilla of galleons with god knows what. He's so far ahead in all categories, especially military, that it might be game over if he comes to pay me a visit. Probably means he started with Chemistry too, and can resupply the armada of Frigates. I've seen quite a few around, smashing up stuff in AI capitals and blocking trade routes.

The GG was used as a spawnbuster. First on a hill in the west in the early game, and later in the northeast. He's still there after 4000 years. Probably a little bored. May use him as a superhealer soon. Am gearing up for war on Justinian. He has 6 cities now. Darius has 4 or 5, and founded Buddhism. It spread to Justinian, and after a looong time to me as well. So it's a nice friendly (okay, pleased) Buddhist love-block for now (he said while building catapults and elephants )

Darius got Stonehenge in my game too, and an unknown civ got one or two wonders. All the rest have been spammed by Senggum, plus a small auditorium of great people. He got Mids and super early Oracle. Went into Rep + Vassalage at some point, so he has longbows too now. Plus who knows how many keshiks and frigates. GNP rate is crazy too. Era modifiers is going to make this very tricky. Lib is probably a lost cause. I've got a GS now, but probably need more help than that. Hope he doesn't land with 20 rifles any moment

But the one truly shining light in this game is that I made a play for the Great Lighthouse, and managed to land it! With only two turns left, I decided to 2-pop it, at the first chance. Would have hated myself if it went that very turn. And with all the wonders Senggum has been hoarding, I have to assume it was very lucky and he went for something else. Could probably have nabbed GLH too super early, like 2000 BC or sick crap like that.

I have 9 cities (two off-shore). Room for a few more, but only one with proper food. Am gearing up for war with Justinian, but he has a huge load of HAs and various melee, so it may have been the wrong target. But at least I've seen his land, so that's nice. Haven't teched IW yet actually, as I figured copper was fine (with warrior defence until I noticed those very scary-looking barb horse archers). Not built any Keshiks either (no archery). With the need to tech everything ourselves, there was always something more pressing, like limping to currency. Thought about espionage and tech stealing too, but with the GWall going so early, that was kinda out. Oh, and I haven't got Monarchy yet, which was probably a mistake. As a result the capital is fairly small, and all cities are struggling with unhappiness or with stunted growth (and little need for granaries). We have food coming out of all crevices, but with small cities it's kind of a waste Will get that done soon, although I have to admit it should have been done ages ago. Even +2 happy cap from wine + one military police would have been a good help.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

I crapped the bed on #198, so started on this one. Been fun so far. Have met 3 AIs, the two mentioned plus another. But at some point I got too concerned and brought the SoL back. It was also rather lucky to survive the onslaught of a two-unit Frigates stack. Was 100% sure it was gone. In fairness I didn't know the first combat was at 4.4% for the attacker, but the next was 43%, so basically a coinflip.

Spoiler :

Think I've sussed out the identity of the 3 AIs I've found, but hard to be sure. Have not seen any Senggum cities, but did see a scout and frigate on T2, and got very scared. Killed the scout and sent the SoL in the opposite direction. Noticed that Russia got wiped out in 3880BC. At first I wondered if it was a freak occurrence, but eventually concluded it was planned by the mapmaker (and now read it happened in your games too). Incredibly glad I happened to spawnbust the starting area pretty well, because my heart jumped into my throat when I noticed barb horse archers. Looks like everybody started with HBR, including the barbs (I've not met the last AI).

Later, when I was bringing the SoL back home, I noticed a Senggum explore workboat by the coast. Went to kill it. Then it ran away -- ACROSS OCEAN. So that's confirmation that the bugger starts with Astronomy. Which of course makes me terrified he'll suddenly send a huge flotilla of galleons with god knows what. He's so far ahead in all categories, especially military, that it might be game over if he comes to pay me a visit. Probably means he started with Chemistry too, and can resupply the armada of Frigates. I've seen quite a few around, smashing up stuff in AI capitals and blocking trade routes.

The GG was used as a spawnbuster. First on a hill in the west in the early game, and later in the northeast. He's still there after 4000 years. Probably a little bored. May use him as a superhealer soon. Am gearing up for war on Justinian. He has 6 cities now. Darius has 4 or 5, and founded Buddhism. It spread to Justinian, and after a looong time to me as well. So it's a nice friendly (okay, pleased) Buddhist love-block for now (he said while building catapults and elephants )

Darius got Stonehenge in my game too, and an unknown civ got one or two wonders. All the rest have been spammed by Senggum, plus a small auditorium of great people. He got Mids and super early Oracle. Went into Rep + Vassalage at some point, so he has longbows too now. Plus who knows how many keshiks and frigates. GNP rate is crazy too. Era modifiers is going to make this very tricky. Lib is probably a lost cause. I've got a GS now, but probably need more help than that. Hope he doesn't land with 20 rifles any moment

But the one truly shining light in this game is that I made a play for the Great Lighthouse, and managed to land it! With only two turns left, I decided to 2-pop it, at the first chance. Would have hated myself if it went that very turn. And with all the wonders Senggum has been hoarding, I have to assume it was very lucky and he went for something else. Could probably have nabbed GLH too super early, like 2000 BC or sick crap like that.

I have 9 cities (two off-shore). Room for a few more, but only one with proper food. Am gearing up for war with Justinian, but he has a huge load of HAs and various melee, so it may have been the wrong target. But at least I've seen his land, so that's nice. Haven't teched IW yet actually, as I figured copper was fine (with warrior defence until I noticed those very scary-looking barb horse archers). Not built any Keshiks either (no archery). With the need to tech everything ourselves, there was always something more pressing, like limping to currency. Thought about espionage and tech stealing too, but with the GWall going so early, that was kinda out. Oh, and I haven't got Monarchy yet, which was probably a mistake. As a result the capital is fairly small, and all cities are struggling with unhappiness or with stunted growth (and little need for granaries). We have food coming out of all crevices, but with small cities it's kind of a waste Will get that done soon, although I have to admit it should have been done ages ago. Even +2 happy cap from wine + one military police would have been a good help.

Congrats on GLH! With Senggum's crazy tech rate, getting any wonder was super-tough, I did not even try. And interesting to know that Senggum starts with Astro (and who knows what), I also saw a Galleon (& 3 frigates), but was not sure if they were built or given, most of his early military score seems to be from units. BTW, I was very disappointed that Apha does not show Senggum technologies, teched it partially to learn just what Senggum got

 

[Pangaea]

Did anybody else spot the wondertile? The freak of nature? Didn't for a long time. Don't expect stuff like that, so it can easily fly under the radar, so to speak.

 

[Powerfaker]

Did anybody else spot the wondertile? The freak of nature? Didn't for a long time. Don't expect stuff like that, so it can easily fly under the radar, so to speak.

No one has reported such a thing, not even in 1000AD or game submitted thread. I re-opened my submitted file and searched the entire map, looking for something like a floodplain hill / resource, but I can't find anything I would call wondertile. So please do explain what you mean (in this thread or a later one).

 

[Pangaea]

Perhaps wondertile sounds a bit more OP than it is, but it's not a natural one. It's a floodplained plains tile, so it gives 4 1 1. A little east of where we start out. I didn't notice at first and merely assumed it was a riverside plains tile (looked like it). Then noticed the city I founded with 4 FPs had 2 and scratched my head, before noticing the odd yield.

 

[Powerfaker]

A yes of course. Now I remember that one.
I didn't notice the health penalty. At some point the city governor picked that tile to work. Then I was like, hey I can put a few extra cottages down there

 

[Tobiyogi]

I started the Emperor-Save, but then made a mistake that will probably cost the whole game. Took a worker from Justinian, and he retaliated with a Horse Archer! I didn't expect that other civs than Senggum have advanced techs too! I could settle on the copper to the west and then whip a spear somewhere, but it will be very difficult to ever make peace again if he is so advanced. To be honest, I didn't like that map too much (looks like a GLH start with probably low chances to build it) and will give up now.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

I didn't expect that other civs than Senggum have advanced techs too!

I did warn you all

Regardless of which class you play the AIs start with the same techs and units, which are not the default ones .