BOTM 23 Final Spoiler
- Thread starter DynamicSpirit
- Start date
Gosha190
King
and what did you do while AIs learned Astro fore you?!!
Seems you played for a low score cow award... 
I was making other blunders 
1. Wanted to use Liber for Factories and forgot
2. Delayed Edu to learn Machinery and Music - and decided not to build maces
3. Vassalized Hammy instead of killing him
4. Launched 2GA - had GM for Sushi in other city and 5 GP in this one, 2 of them scientists. Needless to say, 1st GA consumed 2 non-GS, and when I launched 2nd in a moment without noticing, I lost GM. Delayed Sushi by ~20 turns.
5. Did not expand until late.
Milking score is not my best discipline, have to confess
1. Wanted to use Liber for Factories and forgot
2. Delayed Edu to learn Machinery and Music - and decided not to build maces
3. Vassalized Hammy instead of killing him
4. Launched 2GA - had GM for Sushi in other city and 5 GP in this one, 2 of them scientists. Needless to say, 1st GA consumed 2 non-GS, and when I launched 2nd in a moment without noticing, I lost GM. Delayed Sushi by ~20 turns.
5. Did not expand until late.
Milking score is not my best discipline, have to confess
LowtherCastle
Deity
- Joined
- May 18, 2005
- Messages
- 23,756
Gosha, based on your milking experience, what would be optimal for this map and difficulty level? Using corporations? Using just Biology? Super fast domination? What do you base that evaluation on?
srad
King
Looking forward to see your game. My ship landed 1760AD.
Gosha190
King
agree with Lexad! Fast domi looks good at emperor or higher levels.
I do not know Lexad and CP and Jesusin's results. And it will be interesting for me to know about them. My SR speed do not satisfy my own
I believe Gray Cardinal or Dynamic could play much better and faster.
As for points... my game score is 8683 points (pop 899, land 307, tech 334, wonders 165). It gives me 225K as a final score. I 'v got 1 vassal (QSH) at the finish. Bismark has 1 city size 1 (Zara colony). Rest AIs are dead. Mostly they were killed within last 10 turns.
I believe sushi dominators should get more than 400K.
I do not know Lexad and CP and Jesusin's results. And it will be interesting for me to know about them. My SR speed do not satisfy my own
I believe Gray Cardinal or Dynamic could play much better and faster.As for points... my game score is 8683 points (pop 899, land 307, tech 334, wonders 165). It gives me 225K as a final score. I 'v got 1 vassal (QSH) at the finish. Bismark has 1 city size 1 (Zara colony). Rest AIs are dead. Mostly they were killed within last 10 turns.
I believe sushi dominators should get more than 400K.
1800AD Cultural Victory - 31029 points
My first xOTM for Civ4. I am a Civ3 player so my start was extremely slow in time, loaded if the first time 2 weeks ago, moved the scout and looked at the screen for 10 minutes before leaving the decision of where to settle for later.... almost didn't come back to this game.
Map was awesome.!!
My first xOTM for Civ4. I am a Civ3 player so my start was extremely slow in time, loaded if the first time 2 weeks ago, moved the scout and looked at the screen for 10 minutes before leaving the decision of where to settle for later.... almost didn't come back to this game.
Map was awesome.!!
Gosha190
King
here is some autosaves from my game:
Moderator Action: Attachments deleted.
Sorry, but we prefer that you don't post saves for an active game.
Moderator Action: Attachments deleted.
Sorry, but we prefer that you don't post saves for an active game.
Gosha190
King
what happened after 500AD.
science path
GPs
GAges
Revolutions
Wars
SR final:
Stats history:
science path
Spoiler :
GPs
Spoiler :
GAges
Spoiler :
Revolutions
Spoiler :
Wars
Spoiler :
SR final:
Spoiler :
Stats history:
Spoiler :
Moderator Action - moved from first spoiler since this is clearly a final spoiler post, even though it's in reply to a post in the first spoiler - DS
I ended up winning in 1888 by a cultural victory. I meant that my civilization would be up to 700 beakers/turn, with about 500 of it coming from the capital. Once you mentioned it though I decided to see if I could get 700 beakers/turn in my capital and was successful, although not until the 1700's, and that got cut severely once I was forced to research scientific method (I had all of the wonders that it obsoletes in my capital + 6 monasteries. Ouch.).
I had 10 GS settled in the screenshot; it is from 1725, but shouldn't have any spoiler info in it.
I ended up winning in 1888 by a cultural victory. I meant that my civilization would be up to 700 beakers/turn, with about 500 of it coming from the capital. Once you mentioned it though I decided to see if I could get 700 beakers/turn in my capital and was successful, although not until the 1700's, and that got cut severely once I was forced to research scientific method (I had all of the wonders that it obsoletes in my capital + 6 monasteries. Ouch.).
I had 10 GS settled in the screenshot; it is from 1725, but shouldn't have any spoiler info in it.
Jbourne
Warlord
Mike Lemmer
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2005
- Messages
- 340
Eyugh, that quickly spiraled downhill. I got beaten to the Gt. Lighthouse, but managed to build the Colossus. Meanwhile, I declared war on Hammurabi and took out all but one of his cities, but his last city was on a hill with about a half-dozen longbowmen. He became a vassal state of Isabella, but that shouldn't be any-
Oh crud, half the world just declared war on me. (I didn't realize the Apolistic Palace could do that!) I try to recall most of my troops, but Sitting Bull's caravels decimate most of my galleys. I send a Gt. Merchant over to Ramesses for a massive gold infusion, then pay Qin Shi & Ramesses to declare war on Isabella & her lackeys.
Meanwhile, Isabella sends a lone maceman to attack one of my developed cities. I have a single Axeman there; I upgrade him to a Maceman and wait for Isabella's unit to di- wait, what?! It won?! And so I lose a major city to a single lucky unit.
At the same time, Sitting Bull is developing Galleons. I decide to rush to Liberalism and get Astronomy as my free tech... until Ramesses beats me to it by one turn! Of course he isn't willing to trade it, the twit. Now I'm looking at 20+ turns to Astronomy. I have to devote 20-30% of my income to Culture and my War Weariness is over half of the population anger.
At least I manage to take 2 of Sitting Bull's cities and destroy a massive offensive stack he sent against one of them. Things are looking up until I see Zara Yaqob sending 2 Frigates towards me. I quickly pay him off for peace...
Only to realize Sitting Bull became his vassal state last turn and now I can't continue my offensive against him either, leaving me with 2 starving border cities.
@#$!
I need some time to recover, but Isabella is refusing to accept peace for anything less than me giving her the city she captured for one turn.
@&*$&*@!
But I can still pull this out. I'll find a way, if I just have enough-
At this point, my computer goes on the fritz, randomly crashing whenever I play Civ4. This problem continues for over a week.
@$&@#*&$&%!
At this point, having been hampered by an accidental early Worker death, constantly being beaten to Wonders/techs by ~5 turns, surprised by vassal states, and turned on by my own computer, I decide it's time to cut my losses, retire, and move on to another GotM.
I retire in 1575 AD with a normalized score of 1750.
Lessons learned:
1. Don't neglect researching better naval units in a canal map.
2. The Apolistic Palace can be murder on a warmonger if it's not on your side.
3. Never trade away Education if you're the first one that has it & shooting for Liberalism's free tech.
4. You gotta watch weakened rivals becoming vassal states.
5. Have at least 2 units defending border cities, just in case one attacker gets lucky.
6. Great Merchants are wonderful if you have a faraway ally and need financing for your war machine.
7. Attack the closest rivals first next time, damn your alliances. I gained nothing from attacking Hammurabi and Sitting Bull declared war on me later anyway.
Well, at least it was a learning experience, albeit frustrating for all the wrong reasons.
Oh crud, half the world just declared war on me. (I didn't realize the Apolistic Palace could do that!) I try to recall most of my troops, but Sitting Bull's caravels decimate most of my galleys. I send a Gt. Merchant over to Ramesses for a massive gold infusion, then pay Qin Shi & Ramesses to declare war on Isabella & her lackeys.
Meanwhile, Isabella sends a lone maceman to attack one of my developed cities. I have a single Axeman there; I upgrade him to a Maceman and wait for Isabella's unit to di- wait, what?! It won?! And so I lose a major city to a single lucky unit.
At the same time, Sitting Bull is developing Galleons. I decide to rush to Liberalism and get Astronomy as my free tech... until Ramesses beats me to it by one turn! Of course he isn't willing to trade it, the twit. Now I'm looking at 20+ turns to Astronomy. I have to devote 20-30% of my income to Culture and my War Weariness is over half of the population anger.
At least I manage to take 2 of Sitting Bull's cities and destroy a massive offensive stack he sent against one of them. Things are looking up until I see Zara Yaqob sending 2 Frigates towards me. I quickly pay him off for peace...
Only to realize Sitting Bull became his vassal state last turn and now I can't continue my offensive against him either, leaving me with 2 starving border cities.
@#$!
I need some time to recover, but Isabella is refusing to accept peace for anything less than me giving her the city she captured for one turn.
@&*$&*@!
But I can still pull this out. I'll find a way, if I just have enough-
At this point, my computer goes on the fritz, randomly crashing whenever I play Civ4. This problem continues for over a week.
@$&@#*&$&%!
At this point, having been hampered by an accidental early Worker death, constantly being beaten to Wonders/techs by ~5 turns, surprised by vassal states, and turned on by my own computer, I decide it's time to cut my losses, retire, and move on to another GotM.
I retire in 1575 AD with a normalized score of 1750.
Lessons learned:
1. Don't neglect researching better naval units in a canal map.
2. The Apolistic Palace can be murder on a warmonger if it's not on your side.
3. Never trade away Education if you're the first one that has it & shooting for Liberalism's free tech.
4. You gotta watch weakened rivals becoming vassal states.
5. Have at least 2 units defending border cities, just in case one attacker gets lucky.
6. Great Merchants are wonderful if you have a faraway ally and need financing for your war machine.
7. Attack the closest rivals first next time, damn your alliances. I gained nothing from attacking Hammurabi and Sitting Bull declared war on me later anyway.
Well, at least it was a learning experience, albeit frustrating for all the wrong reasons.
Oh that infuriates me when it happens! Anytime I think there might be a threat of the AP hampering my warmongering, the owner of it becomes enemy #1. A fun and satisfying way to rid yourself of the problem is a lightning naval raid to raze the city where it was built. Even if they are far away, you can burn just that one city and then evacuate your surviving troops (if any), avoiding the hassle and maintenance cost of a protracted invasion/conquest, and then get back to annexing the weaker civs with impunity.
In my opinion, during a war game, removing a hostile AP can be well worth the cost of a 12 or so unit raiding party, even if you lose them all.
*NOTE!* If you already suffer from the unhappiness associated with defying the AP, I'm pretty sure it will NOT go away upon destroying the AP. Ideally, if you can manage to abide by an AP vote before you destroy it, this will remove the unhappiness. Can anyone confirm this from experience?
mabraham
Deity
There are other coping strategies too, such as spamming the religion and switching to it to gain enough votes. You can often do this pre-emptively, by judging by the religion of whoever researches Theology. This also allows you to pre-build the AP-religion buildings for the
. If you have only a city or two with the AP religion, then you can give up on keeping them happy, switch to Theocracy to prevent non-state religion spread (or close borders with the owner of the AP religion's holy city), and defy to your heart's content. Or, gift the AP religion cities to someone else for the time being, and conquer them back later.Sure, but an ounce of forethought can be worth a pound of flesh...
This was my first time playing a GOTM, and I got a cultural victory in 1916, final score 19968.
It was technically my first noble windance since i've started lots of noble games and am comfortable playing at the level, but I never finished one til now. I also had a much better specialist economy going than I usually have.
I should have been more decisive in the early game, because it was not for a long time that I decided to go for culture.
There were no wars at all until I had about 40-50 turns left, when Qin declared on my friend Zara and SB declared on me in a few more turns. I would have finished probably at least 10 turns sooner if I hadn't had to build up defenses and retake one of my cities from SB.
It was technically my first noble win
dance since i've started lots of noble games and am comfortable playing at the level, but I never finished one til now. I also had a much better specialist economy going than I usually have.I should have been more decisive in the early game, because it was not for a long time that I decided to go for culture.
There were no wars at all until I had about 40-50 turns left, when Qin declared on my friend Zara and SB declared on me in a few more turns. I would have finished probably at least 10 turns sooner if I hadn't had to build up defenses and retake one of my cities from SB.
Grifftavian
Emperor
This was my first time playing a GOTM, and I got a cultural victory in 1916, final score 19968.
It was technically my first noble win
Congratulations & Welcome to the friendly competitions. Lots of interesting games and a good way to learn and try new strategies. Good luck in your future GOTM's!But where's the fun in that?
That never occurred to me. I suppose that when you gift the city, the +5
from defying the AP goes away? Wow that seems powerful! Evacuate the unhappy city, gift it to whoever was going to be your next target anyway, and then conquer it again before they have time to station a garrison! Brilliant! 
mabraham
Deity
That never occurred to me. I suppose that when you gift the city, the +5
Dunno.
Wow that seems powerful! Evacuate the unhappy city, gift it to whoever was going to be your next target anyway, and then conquer it again before they have time to station a garrison! Brilliant!
That might depend if your gift establishes some rounds of peace. Other unsolicited gifts don't. Solicited gifts do tend to establish peace.
I was thinking more of an approach where you intend to knock off civs A, B, and then maybe C or D. Gifting AP-unhappy cities to C or D and getting them back later can be better than starving them into oblivion with AP-unhappiness while you run your wars. And the whole world might DOW on your heathen backside...
wwassme
Warlord
1750 Diplomatic Victory on first vote against Ramses with about 15 votes to spare.
Odd thing about this game was that there was only one war, my elimination of Qin because I coveted the Pyramids that he had built in Beijing. Throughout most of the game and at the end of the game the AI and I were all at pleased or friendly with each other. Zara, Sitting Bull and Hammurabi just liked Pericles better than they liked Ramses, probably because I had given them such nice gifts of technology and supplied them with resources for a few gold coins for most of the game.
Odd thing about this game was that there was only one war, my elimination of Qin because I coveted the Pyramids that he had built in Beijing. Throughout most of the game and at the end of the game the AI and I were all at pleased or friendly with each other. Zara, Sitting Bull and Hammurabi just liked Pericles better than they liked Ramses, probably because I had given them such nice gifts of technology and supplied them with resources for a few gold coins for most of the game.
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