The most impressive thing of this map is that we are 1 tile short to circumvent the map before Optics, I needed that +1 water movement deadly early on. However, by the time I figured out that Optics (+1 water sight) was the fastest way to go and finally got it, it did not matter. Was this the natural thing or your engineering, DS?
After settling for Diplomation in GOTM59, I decided to try again to get a Diplomacy victory. Accepted Isabella's buddhism - Pacal, Isabella and Victoria were at war with Sitting Bull much of the game.
Got Radio with Liberalism and built the UN in 1540. Louis was my opponent again, but this time I planned it that way. However, I was 19 votes short to win in the first election. It took me 150 years to get those extra votes. Built lots of farms in Australia and invaded Portugal.
After filling up Africa, I decided that it was time to expand by force. So I eliminated Isabella (in the Punjab), by using cavalry/rifles against longbows. OK, ok... I started with mace/knights and was just so slow that by the time I finished her off it was cavalry.
This netted me the Pyramids, and I went into Universal Sufferage. Probably could have improved tech rate using Representation... but I was so far ahead in tech that a bit more production would be more immediately useful.
I then took 5 of the oldest French cities... by the time they had musketeers to fight my cavalry, he was getting hit with tanks. Poor guy. Vassaled him. At this point I want to just settle in for a nice peaceful game --Louis had been a culture threat, and thus had many wonders that I wanted...(Mostly the MoM)... nobody else had anything worth taking. OTOH, Pacal's European cities were pretty nice and nicely situated near my Forb Palace... but as voluntary vassal to Ragnar the whole game, basically, it wasn't worth the bother of taking them. They weren't that good.
Alas... Sitting Bull demands I kick his butt by declaring war on me, so I oblige. After rolling him back 3 or 4 cities... I give peace at first opportunity just because its a waste of time to kill him. Then Ragnar demands I join in a new war against SB, so WTH... I join Ragnar and take 5 SB cities in the next 2 turns and vassal him. Just denying them from Ragnar. I guess Ragnar was kind of irritated at my successes (or rather his rivals being my vassals) so just after launching my spaceship, Ragnar/Pacal attack. They have grens and cannons. I have modern armor, helicopters, mech inf, stealth bombers, and a ICBM's. Needless to say... I wasn't particularly worried, even though they had LOTS of units. (Psst... you shouldn't stack all your units on one or two tiles if you might get nuked, Ragnar). Did not manage to vassal either of them before the spaceship landed, but took most of Europe and Asia. Got to use a half dozen nukes, too.... that's always fun.
Biggest mistake (well... besides my game strategy, that is...):
Spoiler:
In t169 (1090AD) I saw a barbarian swordsman next to my Forbidden Palace city (Coventry, situated in present-day Libya, approximately). I'm only defended by a lone axeman there, and maybe 20-50% culture. I toyed with the idea of whipping another unit there, and decided not to. Why? because I could upgrade the (Combat3)axe to a maceman, who would have almost no chance of being defeated by a sword. Why lose pop in Coventry unecessarily?
Oh well... to make a long story short, it wasn't a single sword like I thought, it was a stack of FOUR swords. My maceman actually killed 3 of them. Which was one too few. Say goodby to the Forb Palace. Oh... and then to rub it in... this last barb sword (now at strength 1.2) abandons Coventry! I've never seen AI or barbarians do that before... leave a city totally undefended. Anyhow... I got Coventry back next turn and at least it still had a courthouse. But this set me back quite a bit of turns.
I guess I was to lazy to attack with cavs, so I waited for mechs to wipe them out with healing while moving ... They had a few riflemans (discovered while being attacked), but mostly they had Phants and XBows... so no war at all for me till the end of game, and then I think it took about 20 turns to expand for domination (1916AD, t336)... I was lucky that Portuguese DoW me, cause I would have waited for another 20 turns probably...
I played a long time on noble, till recently, when I started playing gotm, but don't remember that I was ever so tech advanced compared to AI, probably because of fin civ and lots of FP, at the and I looked what units I build, and it was about two dozen of archers and then mechs and modern armors, cause I was alone on Africa and no one could aproach by land (build 1 tank and few machine guns between only, skipped XBows, maces, muskets, rifles, knights, cavs)...
I could have finish early, but was unreasonably worried about slowing in tech advancing, cause Europe was so close to my FP, also galleons are not much worse then transports, with having Europe, I would build units more rapidly and tech advancing could be only faster, also when I reach dom limit, half of Asia wasn't pacified, and none of AI opponents had biology, so earlier expanding would bring much more population, with food corp...
definitely I have a bad habit of not attacking till attacked , and while I can build any of buildings in city, I adjourn building units...
lost one city early by barbs, that cost me few turns also prob, and definitely lack of workers in early game I must improve next time, many tiles wasn't improved on time, that being FP in this game was expensive...
After my fails in 33 and 34 I finally got a conquest victory 1310 AD
And once again in history the saying 'never fight a land war in asia' became true. I really think the devs forgot to implement the capitulation check for Sitting Bull (or they excluded him by intention from the check).
My plans for a cultural victory went smoothly, if a bit slowly. One Great Prophet went to building the Kong Miao; aside from that, I managed to keep the great person pool pure, ultimately getting nine Great Artists. I took a tech path that added Taoism, Christianity and Islam to my original Confucianism. Buddhism would spread from foreign lands in 1130 and finally Hinduism in 1780.
After being first to Liberalism (with Nationalism as my free tech) I hedged my bets by researching Gunpowder before switching to Free Speech and Free Religion (to keep the AI happy, even though the science bonus was wasted) and going to 70% culture (bumping that up from time to time, as gold was available).
As I built my culture, the AI distracted themselves with a war between Ragnar and Sitting Bull (1190 - 1838*), Isabella and Ragnar (1530 - 1675) and between Louis and Joao (1540 - 1600). Pacal remained at peace for the entire game.
"Friendly" Louis launched a surprise attack on me in 1838, joined by Isabella, but his first wave attack (in "Morocco") failed and I managed to buy a peace treaty for a mere 100 gold in 1844, before his second wave could hit. Meanwhile, I bribed Ragnar to make peace with Sitting Bull and declare war on Isabella, as a result of which she never did get any military units to my border.
London reached legendary status in 1860. After gaining my ninth GA, I culture-bombed seven in York and two in Hastings to achieve a Cultural victory in 1880, with 19,525 points.
Meh. I know the cultural game can be played more efficiently, but there's still something about this type of victory that disagrees with me. Seeing a tech lead turn into a tech deficit (with all the culture going to my extra cities being essentially wasted) just bothers me, particularly since a smarter AI would take advantage of such an obvious weakness.
I didn't really focus on a plan quickly with this one. As we needed Astronomy, I bumbled along until I got it in 1200AD as a free tech from Liberalism.
Although earlier I had balked at the idea of ferrying troops about to conquer the world (just so much piece pushing), I decided I also couldn't be bothered playing all the turns through to a space race. So my game was organised around laziness and indecision!
I founded America in Australia, largely just because I live in Australia and decided I wanted to colonise it. And then at long last, in 1585AD, I declared war on someone. Joao fell rather quickly (it was a 30 years war, but that's not so many turns!).
At some point halfway through the war, I realised "hey, I could actually get a religious victory if I just vassalise someone into voting for me". I duly vassalised Joao, and he was my opponent in the election so of course he didn't vote for me.
America / Australia had 3 votes, but it was hard to make them count.
In a grand bit of buffoonery, by the time I'd taken two Spanish cities and vassalised Isabella (1685), I was over the number of votes where I could vote myself in and the vote would no longer occur.
I had vassalised Isabella, but at 49% land, and I couldn't remember if she needed both 50% land and 50% population or just one or the other. So I didn't want to release her cities to trigger the vote, only for her to break free and not vote for me (and have to reconquer her). I procrastinated a few more turns, thinking "these wars are actually going very quickly, and it's only 4 nations left -- I've never done a conquest victory in a BOTM before".
Finally, I decided to stop wasting time and win it now. I dumped a great artist in Madrid, taking some of Isabella's land as she was vassalled, and then liberated Joao's cities and one of Isabella's to take me back under the vote threshold on my own, trigger an instant election, winning it with Isabella's forced votes, and a victory I should have had many centuries earlier if I'd been at all focused about it.
Turn 253, 1715AD.
By the way The game told me it was 68728 points, but the save submission put it at 54000ish (odd, not sure what's going on there).
Did you play the Challenger save (Prince level)? These results would be adjusted to reflect the lower end-date score bonus that you would have gotten if you played the Contender (Noble level).
Alternatively, if you played the Adventurer save (Warlord level) the scores are discounted by 15%.
Did you play the Challenger save (Prince level)? These results would be adjusted to reflect the lower end-date score bonus that you would have gotten if you played the Contender (Noble level).
Alternatively, if you played the Adventurer save (Warlord level) the scores are discounted by 15%.
Nope, contender. It's not something about the in-game calculation being wrong with Vassals or something like that is it?
Game: BtS BOTM 35
Date submitted: 2010-11-07
Reference number: 23192
Your name: whb
Your email: deleted
Software Version: BtS 3.19 for Macintosh
Mod: Mods/MacBUFFY-3.19.003/
Entry class: Contender
Game status: Religious Victory for England
Game date: 1715AD
Turns played: 253
Base score: 3794
Final score: 54218
Time played: 13:17:31
Submitted save: Victoria AD-1715.CivBeyondSwordSave
Renamed file: whb_BS03501.CivBeyondSwordSave
Nope, contender. It's not something about the in-game calculation being wrong with Vassals or something like that is it?
Game: BtS BOTM 35
Date submitted: 2010-11-07
Reference number: 23192
Your name: whb
Your email: deleted
Software Version: BtS 3.19 for Macintosh
Mod: Mods/MacBUFFY-3.19.003/
Entry class: Contender
Game status: Religious Victory for England
Game date: 1715AD
Turns played: 253
Base score: 3794
Final score: 54218
Time played: 13:17:31
Submitted save: Victoria AD-1715.CivBeyondSwordSave
Renamed file: whb_BS03501.CivBeyondSwordSave
Oh I see the problem now... you used a Mac! Bill Gates requires those score get downgraded, didn't you know?
Honestly, I have no idea why your in-game end-score (the one that goes into your personal hall of fame) would differ from the BOTM score. Maybe one of the more experienced game admins knows.
I submitted a 1918 cultural victory. Was planning space race, but when a 3rd religion spread to me, I figured what the heck. Problem was I didn't plan for it from the start, so that set me back, especially with GAs.
I developed all of our continent, well, at least the isolated part. Never set foot on any other area, with a unit that could attack, and never once got attacked Talk about peaceful, even with the annoying Isabella and Sitting Bull annoyed and bugging me, all game.
Anyhow, 15 cities. There was only one other score/tech contender with me, Louis. Not sure how I would have ended up doing Space Race, but usually it's later than 1918.
Was going for conquest and it was a long haul, eventually getting there at 1770AD. As per my 1AD update, I went wrong early on and didn't even discover my opponents until well after I should have been conquering them. Didn't make my first DOW (Ragnar) until 780AD - incidentally the same turn that I finally discovered the 6th AI (Sitting Bull). Still didn't have anywhere near the number of units I should have had and the Vikings weren't destroyed until 1260AD. After that I was into the swing of things and I think I did OK considering, but the AIs were spread out everywhere and since I razed as I went then other AIs filled in new cities (Pacal had 20 before I DOWed him). Left Pacal till last as closest, although actual finished him off 2 turns before Louis.
Quick question since I've never really gone for conquest before - I'm assuming that you need to actually raze/capture all cities of an opponent, i.e. it doesn't count as a conquest if you vassalize them?
Am impressed by Srad's 1310AD Conquest - nice work!
You can win conquest with vassals, but you may get Domination before conquest.
1882 Lame Space Win
I was pretty disappointed with the date. Noble seems so much slower when you achieve such a dominant tech advantage over the AI and have to tech everything.
I ended up settling in place after wasting a turn or two moving the settler. Settled in a circular pattern around the cap at first - grabbing the stone with the first city. Built a lot of early wonders including Oracle, ToA and Mids. Did the Oracle > CS slingshot.
Very nice land all around. I expanded as rapidly as a could and grabbed the floodplains/phants soons and capture a barb coastal city in the North. Didn't meet AIs for a long time until Iz and Pacal sent workboats my way.
Won Lib, of course, but held it at one turn and used it on Physics. I could have waited quite a bit longer though on using it and wished I did.
I quickly grabbed up all the land in what I guess is Australia. I don't think it really added much to my victory and probably just slowed my pace down. Still, it was fun to settle it anyway and I guess it adds to the overall score.
I used a few turns of US to buy up some late infra like levees and then built wealth/research to push the tech rate as much as possible as I headed toward Rocketry. Sushi and Mining were founded in my Wall city and spread mainly to cities that would build parts.
I probably could have been a bit more focused on building parts, as I did build some late wonders as well. Probably would have shaved quite a few turns. Also, I forgot to workshop/watermill over cottages near the end and probably should have switch to State Property. Not sure what else I could have done to finish sooner than I did.
I fought no wars the whole game. I used religion only temporarily during GAs but mainly ran FR, so relations were generally pretty good with most AIs. My military advantage and power were always much better anyway so I expect the AIs were scared to try anything. Only wars were a very long Rag/SB battle which seemed to come to nothing.
Fun game with great land. Just wish I could learn how to tech better for space on lower levels. I've finished space much earlier on higher levels.
What a game...settled in place after seeing that there was coast close to the northern hill...and started expanding...the AI was of course no match: I met Isa rather early when she still had one city - me 7...maybe I should have continued expanding immediately - instead I consolidated and teched away while slowly settling the rest of my territory.
The attack began with Cavalry (after 1300 as far as I remember) against Pacal and then I conquered and kept each and every city in the old world, which was insane because in spite of my extreme advantage the whole game got slower and slower...in the end I had 68 cities
This also means that I started to care less and less abour micro management and thinking about what to produce...I always wonder how others manage to spend 150 hours or more - things get so boring. But I wanted to get a Domination victory so I also settled in Australia and launched an attack at northern america...when I accepted my first and only vasall, the land counter jumped to 65%
I guess though that this can be done more efficiently and much faster - I would guess a result in the 1500s with more than 200000 points should be perfectly possible...
jesusin, contender. Goal: fastest cultural victory. Result: 1420AD cultural victory.
Strategy
1AD Stats: 10 cities, 45 pop, 10workers, 19units (4Axe), 2 strategic resources, 2 luxury resources, 6 health resources, 1 great persons, 1 world wonders, 0 national wonders, food/production/commerce=162-47-211, 150 sustainable beakers per turn, 33 culture per turn, 2 great person points per turn, 150 gold. 2 religions. 11/11 cottages used, 26 Techs: IW, no MC, Theo, CS, Aest, Curr. 0 civs killed. 10 hours played. reli/city, temples, caths== 9,1,0
With cheap warriors giving happiness without end, and with all the land settled it was time to spread the religions and take decisions.
I have serious doubts about my 3 chosen Legendary cities.
First, the capital, with so much hammers under Bureaucracy it can build many WW and it's full of cottages too. It will be far ahead of the other cities, so it won't get the Hermitage.
Second, the 3dyes+gems+many green tiles city. It's commerce it's great, but neither its food nor its production is great, so building the cathedrals here will be hard. No way to think about Hermitage here. Maybe I should have chosen another city.
Third, the GPFarm in the N tip. Well, yes, it is the city with the most food, so it should get the NE. But it is also destined to get 4 cathedrals and the Hermitage, even if it is the one with the smallest raw culture output.
The consequence of my decision was a second city severely harmed everytiem it whipped a cathedral and a GPFarm that hadn't hired a single specialist by 1000AD. Disgusting.
1AD-500AD
Main activity: whipping missionaries.
Stupid action of the day: spend 5 turns researching Paper and Education instead of Divine Right. That delayed my islamic temples a lot. I started whipping missionaries whitout a single hammer on them to make up for my mistake.
Wonders: Parth, MoM, NE and Sistine's.
Workers: Just 12. I should have had 3 more at least, in order to chop towards missionaries.
500AD Tech pace: 250bpt at -0gpt
500AD reli/city, temples, caths== 23,13,0
500AD-1000AD
Main activity: whipping cathedrals.
Nationalism from Liberalism 760AD.
GPs: 1GPro (for GoldanAge and revolt to FS+CS+Pacif), 3GA.
Wonders: HG, AP in auxiliary city for the hammers, Hermitage, TajMajal
1000AD Stats: 11 cities, 124 pop, 13 workers, 20 units (4Axe), 4 strategic resources, 5 luxury resources, 9 health resources, 6 great persons, 8 world wonders, 2 national wonders, food/production/commerce=281-127-1686, 420 (0) sustainable beakers per turn, 2200(1250 useful) culture per turn, 479 (0 of them from GPFarm) great person points per turn, 2500 gold. 4 religions. 15/21 cottages used, 40 Techs: Music, Machi, DivRig, Natio, Liber, no PP. 0 civs killed. 19 hours played. reli/city, temples, caths== 42,36,9+
1000AD-1420AD
Main activity: popping GreatArtists in the right order.
12th cathedral built 1050AD.
GPs: 11GA
Wonders: SoZ, NotDam.
Tech: hey, all those artist have ended up giving my PP, great!
Culture in the 3 big: 1250cpt at 1000AD, 2000cpt at 1200AD, 2400cpt at 1400AD.
Pop starved to get the GAs in time and in the right order: only 10.
Turns of difference between first and last Legendary: 3
Turns saved by last GA: 2
Highlights: Religions 4, Cathedrals 12, Multipliers 4-4-5, raw culture 250-150-120, total GPs 17(1 free), 1GS for Academy and 16GA bombed 2-7-7.
I've had tons of fun.
Noble AI is pitiful, I am still selling techs like calendar or Drama for a few coins.
By the way, once again I have been too stingy. around 800AD I accumulated 2500g at 0% culture seeing that I would be losing more than 100gpt at 100% culture, In the end I hadn't used 1500g of them. I always infravalue the gold I can get from AIs and the gold my merchants-in-cities-that-won't-pop-another-GP can generate. Also I used a little dirty trick: I chopped lots of trees into a WW in many different auxiliary cities (only one of them can work towards the wonder at a time), then I built the wonder in the capital. That way, all the other cities got a lot of money for their hammers.
Please, reader, help me see what my mistakes where. Comments and questions are more than welcome.
EDIT: Forge analysis
Spoiler:
I said I loved not having any AI interference. That's not completely true, I traded for MC, which I would never have researched, around 600AD and I built 3 forges in the 3 Legendary cities.
Now, was it beneficial? NO! It wasn't!
I was surprised to find out that building forges before building 4 cathedrals per city was a serious mistake. Many games I forgot to build forges and thought I should have, but now I know better. Let's do out maths:
Building a cathedral (300h) in a normal city with the required resource and without forge requires 150 raw hammers.
Building a cathedral (300h) in a normal city with the required resource and with forge requires 133 raw hammers.
So forges in normal cities save 17 raw hammers per cathedral you have the required resource, while the forge itself requires 120 raw hammers. Don't build it or you'll be delaying your cathedrals and losing hammers!
Building a cathedral (300h) in a Bureaucracy capital with the required resource and without forge requires 120 raw hammers.
Building a cathedral (300h) in a Bureaucracy capital with the required resource and with forge requires 113 raw hammers.
So forges in normal cities save 7 raw hammers per cathedral you have the required resource, while the forge itself requires 80 raw hammers. Don't build it or you'll be delaying your cathedrals and losing hammers!
Building a cathedral (300h) in a normal city without the required resource and without forge requires 300 raw hammers.
Building a cathedral (300h) in a normal city without the required resource and with forge requires 240 raw hammers.
So forges in normal cities save 60 raw hammers per cathedral you don't have the required resource, while the forge itself requires 120 raw hammers. Don't build it unless you have 2 cathedrals without the required resource or you'll be delaying your cathedrals and losing hammers!
Building a cathedral (300h) in a Bureaucracy capital without the required resource and without forge requires 200 raw hammers.
Building a cathedral (300h) in a Bureaucracy capital without the required resource and with forge requires 177 raw hammers.
So forges in normal cities save 23 raw hammers per cathedral you don't have the required resource, while the forge itself requires 80 raw hammers. Don't build it unless you have 2 cathedrals without the required resource or you'll be delaying your cathedrals and losing hammers!
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Was this the natural thing or your engineering, DS?
After rolling him back 3 or 4 cities... I give peace at first opportunity just because its a waste of time to kill him. Then Ragnar demands I join in a new war against SB, so WTH... I join Ragnar and take 5 SB cities in the next 2 turns and vassal him. Just denying them from Ragnar. 
I guess Ragnar was kind of irritated at my successes (or rather his rivals being my vassals) so just after launching my spaceship, Ragnar/Pacal attack. They have grens and cannons. I have modern armor, helicopters, mech inf, stealth bombers, and a ICBM's. Needless to say... I wasn't particularly worried, even though they had LOTS of units. (Psst... you shouldn't stack all your units on one or two tiles if you might get nuked, Ragnar). Did not manage to vassal either of them before the spaceship landed, but took most of Europe and Asia. Got to use a half dozen nukes, too.... that's always fun. 
1310 AD
By the way The game told me it was 68728 points, but the save submission put it at 54000ish (odd, not sure what's going on there). 
Maybe one of the more experienced game admins knows.
Oh... and then to rub it in... this last barb sword (now at strength 1.2) abandons Coventry! I've never seen AI or barbarians do that before... leave a city totally undefended. Anyhow... I got Coventry back next turn and at least it still had a courthouse. But this set me back quite a bit of turns.
