BOTM 58 First Spoiler

DynamicSpirit

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BOTM 58 First Spoiler - 1AD



So how did your game go up to 1AD? Was this deity as hard as you expected? How much difference did knowing the local geography upfront make? Where did you settle?

Reading Requirements

Stop! If you are participating in BOTM 58, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless EITHER
  • You have reached at least 1 AD in your game, OR
  • You have submitted your entry, OR
  • You have abandoned your game and will not submit.

Posting Restrictions
Please do not discuss anything that happened after 1 AD.
Please do not discuss modern era resource locations (Copper and Iron are OK).
Please do not divulge your final result if that happened after 1 AD.
Do not post any savegame file from the game. Discussions and screenshots are fine but not actual games.
 
I WILL finish this game.
Played a bit past 1 AD, not sure how much (until frigates) so I dont want to spoil anything. My plans were ruined from start. I lost my first quechua at 80% for me very early. My bpt was nowhere near test game's but one thing I know about deity is this: safety first. That is why I built triremes so Toku couldn't land his troops. And fist appeared as soon as he met me. My exploring WB was very unlucky. Toku's city had unexpected border pop and instead teleporting me 1 tile to Cyrus, it teleported me in the middle of Japan :/
That prevented me from discovering foreign trade routes and my GLH had to wait 25 turns until it got IC routes. But game is not lost. My position is good, actually. I will finish this game.

Btw, I created a manual save before exiting. Forgot to check that save on exit option in buffy. Is that ok? I mean resuming from manual save.

Also, I laugh at pitiful attempt to make game harder with all these warmongers and easy to bend vassal meat. Pih. :p
 
This time I decided to go on Adventurer, I still don't have the cojones to face deity, especially after the rude shock on Immortal last BOTM (before joining BOTM I was on my first steps on Prince :D )

The settings and map had Culture written all over it so I decided to go along for it... I considered the risk of trying for an early religion with mysticism start but I lost them so often to AIs that I didn't try... turned out I could have got Buddhism if I researched first... no regrets there...

Settled in the marble and aimed for sailing and bronze to chop. Also made sure that above all I busted fog... first builds quechua, wb, 2 quechuas, worker and lighthouse, aiming for GLH. They covered most of the island well, had only a lion, 2 warriors + archer to deal with. The real barb trouble I didn't foresee was galleys... twice till 1ad they pillaged Cuzco's seafood resources, galley defending didn't hold them. French contact with their WB early in 2640bc... neglected galley exploration...

Then wonder-building, did pre-chop, and chopped like crazy. Got GLH 1800bc, Oracle 1600bc, settler in-between, then Artemis 800bc.

Really wanted GPs but I went over the top on wonders, neglecting expansion :( Only 3 cities in 1ad... I made a crazy decision in going for Hagia Sophia in #2 city Tiwanaku, with heaps of chopping but might have to hold it because I'm really behind on expansion... Also I was aiming for middle religions with GPs but the AI beat me up in confi, tao and christianism... Still getting the ropes on cultural game...
 
Well, I have to say that things worked out pretty close to my test games. Land barbs were no significant problem, but barb galleys have been a royal pain. I think they pillaged 6 or 7 nets so far, and rebuilding them set me back a bit. Having said that, trade routes helped the economy compared to the tests, so I still did OK.

At 1AD, I have 11 cities founded, with the settler for #12 built, and it will found in about 4 turns.
I have TGL, HG, and Moai. I took HG at 600BC because I was nervous I would lose it. I could have a couple of extra pop if I had dared hold of until 450 BC, but that felt too risky.

Techwise, I am currently pulling in 200 bpt at 100%, and that will go up to about 225 with an academy (due in 8 turns).

I have MC, Calender, Monarchy, and COL. Am 4 turns from CS. Will then revolt to Beureucracy and hereditary rule in one shot. I have yet to adopt a religion, and since I have not been lucky with spread, I may stay that way for the entire game ?!

I have met 4 neighbors (indeed, they met me), despite virtually no exploration.

So I guess I am doing OK. As an immortal player who is still scared of Deity, I am not sure how/where to go forward from here...

I will see how things devellope, but at least right now, I am nearly at tech parity, so maybe a peaceful game is an option to the end??
 
Settled on the marble and headed for the GLhouse which was built in 2000BC.

Second city for the silver and third for the pigs. I did plan on going for a cultural victory and these were going to be my three potential legendary cities. I met Nap/Toku early so sent out an exploring wb to help with the trade routes. Both Nap (founder) and Toku were both Buddhist. Of course it took a long while to spread to me but always handy to have friendly neighbours especially at this level and my army consisting of a quecha per city so converted asap.

Bit shocked to find Nap settle on my island quite early but it was on the far tip next to the cow and I still managed to settle the bronze though had to rush a bit more than I planned.

Managed a couple more wonders pre 1AD. The GLib and Parthenon. Also had a GM which I sent to paris for a trade mission. Did think about bulbing MC/settling but thought the money would be better. Well till Nap asked for some that is... :sad: Not unexpected though..

Managed to be the first to Music and settled the Great Artist in the pig city. As at 1AD I had a couple of turns left on Sistines so was hopeful of getting that.
 
And you say the AI suck at naval invasion.... :rolleyes:

775BC France caught me totally unprepared, two galleys showed up and with a nice amphibious attack (chariot and spear) they burned Ollantaytambo (defended by one Quechua), 2nd galley carries on east and drops a spear and a axe on the doorstep of Tiwanaku :eek:. I whip like mad, but the Quechua is no match for an axe or a spear, I'm rather lucky (23.3%) that my 4th Quechua kills the spear in the 2nd wave of attack and reinforcement arrives the next turn. :whew:

Funny thing is that the spear that took Ollantaytambo is still parked on the ruins of the city now 30 turns later at 1AD :crazyeye:
But I have axemen now :hammer:


Meanwhile Japan settled the western tip of our island :mad:

Spoiler :
HC1ADBotm58_zps5e72a368.jpg
 
@ Zamint3 Napolean settled the western tip in my game as well which forced me to speed up everything!!!

Usually when an AI parks a unit somewhere its planning to settle a city in that square. If you settle a city there or thereabouts it generally moves on.
 
Out of curiosity, at what date did Toko and France show up on the continent above? I must have been very lucky, because all I saw from any AI up to 1AD were harmless workboats.
 
Out of curiosity, at what date did Toko and France show up on the continent above? I must have been very lucky, because all I saw from any AI up to 1AD were harmless workboats.

France settled the western tip in 825BC in my game.
 
Could be better, but could be a lot worse. I'm not very optimistic about winning this but I won't go down easy. I lost the GLH to Russia in 2000 BC. :cry: Would have gotten it 1920. But I did get the Oracle (1680, took Monarchy), ToA (1320), and Great Lib (375). Lost the Parthenon (150) and will have Nat'l Epic in Cuzco in 6 turns. I did a fair amount of pre-game testing but things went... different. Only have 3 cities, but at least they're pop 9,7,8. City#2 went NE of silver, #3 E of pigs. I'll have a settler in 3 turns for 2W1N of silver (to be Moai city) and another settler in 5 turns for W of the copper on the island. Nappy has already settled a city 2E of the copper.

Really bummed about losing the GLH. :sad: I'm doing OKish in tech (have Lit, Currency, and Calendar, but no Alpha, MC, or IW) but it's been/going to be very hard to get tech trades with these AI. I've only met our 3 nearest neighbors so far--very slow on exploring. Making 82 bpt @90% breakeven with a settled Gt Prophet and Merchant, and a likely Great Sci in 4 turns. No religion spread to me yet. I was very pleased with my fogbusting, but got sloppy toward the end and left one tile fogged--spawned a barb axe that took out 4 of my Q's before I could kill it. :mad: No nets have been pillaged, though (knock on wood).
 
Wow, it is amazing how different games go.

-I got Glight in 2000... Wonder if I just stole it by a turn from Russia?
-France left me alone. I dont have notes as to when I met him, but I think it was around 500 BC. I will have to check my log to see when I settled the western tip, but I doubt it was before 800 BC.
-I faced almost no land barbs (something like 5 total, warriors and archers).
-I got pummelled by barb galleys. There were regularly two pestering me at once.
-My oracle went in 1680, btw. BIFL. I dont know by whom.
-My Toku never fisted (I did start giving him pigs as soon as I met him; would that have helped instantly? I though it needed multiple turns.). Other AI did fist almost as I met them, but at 1AD, no one ever attacked.

I wonder what random influences cause the games to divert so much so quickly?...
 
This may be the first GOTM I actually have a shot to complete & turn in, in years! Took a break for a while, but picked up playing a couple months ago. Was doing OK in the Ice-elation game last month, was roughly in the pack around in the early-to-mid AD for that, but started too late & ran out of time. Made sure to start early this time, last Tuesday :)

I'm way past 1ad, but unfortunately I already can't remember exactly what happened when so I may have to be a little vague, or leave something out that probably did happen by 1ad.

I also beelined for GLH, only diverted early for mining-BW so I could chop/whip, got it 2000bc exactly. Was so single-minded that the benefit was lost for a while, I had only two cities lol. 2nd one was just founded shortly before GLH, up next to pig/cow/spices, and also I don't think I even had AH yet. I also got oracle later, pre-1000 for sure, but not exactly sure when. I rushed it so much that I could not take CS or even CoL (no writing), but upon reflection given the contacts I made at that point I decided I wasn't sure I wanted a different religion, so I'm not sure I would have taken CoL anyway. I took MC instead, to really leverage Industrious & get forges forges up fast, both for production and to amplify usefulness of gold & silver for happiness, and the early access to a trireme was a godsend, given all my worked seafood tiles & how barb galleys kept pouring in from the east (i may have killed 4-5 of them?). So if I could do it over, even if I could have grabbed CoL and Confucianism, knowing what I know now, I don't think I would have done it differently. Unfortunately, given all the foreign trade routes I had early (on account of what I did below), religion spread surprisingly slow in my cities. I think at 1ad I only had a religion in one city! Completely baffled by that. And it wasn't Toku's religion, Judaism (toku was the Big Dog in my game early on, and of course the one of most worrisome temperament, I couldn't even get him to offer open borders) that was probably the biggest frustration I had, not having any religion to speak of. I reason though, if that is your biggest problem 1ad in a deity game, you can't complain too much :)

I expanded rapidly after GLH, filled up most of the main island (and leveraged GLH, all are coastal cities). I had seen WBs from toku & cyrus & napolean all coming from the west while cranking on the GLH, so even when I still only had one city, I was already anxious about losing the western end of my island (reading others' accounts, sounds like with good reason, although maybe I overreacted if others didn't see foreign settlement until 850bc? oh well) So I diverted big time from my original plans, and founded my third city all the way over on the western desert tip of Long Island. This replaced my intent to build next to the silver & get immediate happiness relief. I was very nervous not only about losing the copper, but even moreso the gold (and the stone I suppose, though it was not in at cross, I think it effectively secured it for my later city next to the iron). Took a little planning ... the whip I did to generate overflow hammers just before masonry & starting GLH was to build a galley in Cuzco. It was a bit painful to prioritize over another quecha or settler or worker or WB or whatever, but I did it. Then while working on GLH, it was making the long journey around the NE part of the island. by the time it arrived, I got a settler overland to pick up, and I'm guessing I settled it around 2000bc? I got copper hooked up pretty quickly, but it was only much much later I got gold and the other cows hooked up. But I did save them for myself quite effectively. Toku eventually did settle on island to SW, but I kind of let that happen, I was planning to plop a city on the southwest tip tile of the island (would have called it "Land's End?") to block him, and because GLH made building extra cities more palatable, but it just didn't look that great of a site to me so I didn't prioritize it sufficiently to beat him to it. thank go he settle offshore & not on mainland, that was my biggest fear, what later headaches that might create.

There was one completely unexpected result of my rush to settle on Long Island to grab copper/gold/cows, maybe also unique to me so far? After dropping off the settler, and with toku not offering open borders, the only thing to do with the galley (while waiting to pick up the worker mining the copper) was to head north along the island chain, discovering the france mainland. Along the way I cam across the 3 tile island just off their coast, with potential for two seafood + wooded plains & second plains in fat cross. My early MC + grabbing the copper with third city was making me think very very seriously about the Colossus, so this really caught my eye. I sailed back south again, and at the same time I returned the worker that built the mine back to the mainland, I decided to take a chance and divert the settler I'd prepared for the mid-island iron+stone+fish city to try to grab the island off France. I'd been watching very closely the announcements every turn since leaving to make sure I didn't see "Napolean has founded XXXX in a faraway land," if I'd seen that I'm not sure I would have done it. Anyway, the gambit paid off, and my national borders not only extend all the way to the NW of my island, but quite a bit north from there, making me France's western neighbor, as well as southern! As I alluded to in my first paragraph, this let me REALLY maximize the GLH with a lot of international trade routes early, even with just sailing ... otherwise I don't think I would have had any, Toku would have probably grabbed the entirety of the west end & continued to not give me open borders, effectively cutting me off from all Intl trade? Instead, I actually cut Toku off from France I think ... there is one of his WBs that appears stuck just south of Paris anyway :)

Saw (and fought) a surprising amount of barbarians. Guessing a dozen warriors and archers, perhaps more? One quecha got up to around 7-8 experience, and a coupel others got a few too, as I had to keep rotating quechas out of the mid island mountain position as each one successively took combat damage. Plus the handful of galleys which did pillage my fishing at least a couple times, even with triremes. Even though I established fairly comprehensive fogbusting very early (my first three builds were quecha, WB, quecha; knew I'd need good fogbusting since I was beelining GLH and forgoing early expansion). Mostly from the west, I never realy fogbusted all the way over until I started improving the gold. But there were at least two nailbiting "invasions" of warriors from the northern two tiles, above the mountain, where the cows were, the only ones I couldn't see in that area for most of the time, and for which I was less prepared for. For these I just had to sit in Cuzco & let them pillage the mine and/or attack the fortified quecha in Cuzco, while I gathered a reaction force. But in the west I established my FB quechas all on good defensive terrain & when barbs did show I stayed put, hoping they would attack me (they did about 90% of the time).

Well those are highlights, based on memory. I got to 1ad already on Thurs or Friday. I really wasn't thinking about this writeup so I don't know exactly my status as of 1ad, but I think it was probably 5-6 cities, & last place in score still, but feeling very good about my position, for a deity game & not having played much the last couple years. Two of my first five cities were on islands; not at all what I'd originally envisioned, but on the other hand I was not as intently planning my settling order, etc, as some people seemed to be in the announcement thread! No wars, but I also gave tribute a couple times to encourage that.
 
@MarkM

I wish I had your memory... :)
 
I was writing about this,

Spoiler :
My exploring WB was very unlucky. Toku's city had unexpected border pop and instead teleporting me 1 tile to Cyrus, it teleported me in the middle of Japan :/
That prevented me from discovering foreign trade routes and my GLH had to wait 25 turns until it got IC routes.




and now, here is a screenie:

Lollol.jpg



If this doesn't make you frustrated...
 
I was writing about this,

Spoiler :
My exploring WB was very unlucky. Toku's city had unexpected border pop and instead teleporting me 1 tile to Cyrus, it teleported me in the middle of Japan :/
That prevented me from discovering foreign trade routes and my GLH had to wait 25 turns until it got IC routes.




and now, here is a screenie:


If this doesn't make you frustrated...

Very frustrating I agree. But how could that situation arise from a border pop? Where you've drawn the workboat would have been inside Toku's cultural borders even before any border pop occurs.
 
Very frustrating I agree. But how could that situation arise from a border pop? Where you've drawn the workboat would have been inside Toku's cultural borders even before any border pop occurs.

It was a false memory. It wasn't border pop but city of Nara was founded. Orange circle is where my WB finished its movement when I was heading back once I revealed Tokyo. Then Toku sneaked a settler on me and found Nara. I was teleported to the farther tile instead on the fish. It seems teleportation tries to teleport you closer to your teritory or something like that, regardless of terrain in between.
 
This one was frustrating.
I was able to build the Great Lighthouse relatively late, but got quite a bit of refund gold from other wonders and forgot that you need to block barb galley's routes to your seafood if you want it to survive. The cost of emergency-whipped galleys and replacement work boats really hurt my expansion. I'm not sure if I'll consider it fun enough to play it out all the way from this position.

Kyoto is insane. 2x wet corn, sheep, fish, marble, gold (probably popped), and 6 wonders at 1AD. Toku also has a double shrine in Tokyo.
 
I built the Great Lighthouse and Great Library and had six or seven cities in the BCs. Very little barb activity outside of those annoying Galleys. Then I started playing Magic Candle (1989!) and got sucked into it so I probably won't be able to finish this one :rolleyes:.
 
1 AD stats:
207 :science:pt
214:gold:
-52:gold:pt
954/1352 for Civil Service (I have Compass, CoL, Monarchy,Calender, Currency, Literture)
8 Cities, 2 settlers in place to settle on next turn.
Total population: 26
4 workers
Wonders: TGL 2000BC, GLib 200 BC
725 GS in Cuzco for Academy
4T to next Great Person
Building the Parthenon and MoM for fail gold.
Looking at the pregame spoiler thread, I think strategies for TGL were great! I got it at 2000 BC and settled my first city at 2040 BC at the Silver. A few dot maps were offered up, but they were not ideal for a war strategy, so I overlapped an additional city in the immediate NW of Cuzco. Toku built a city for me at the westernmost aspect of my mainland.

Here is my settle pattern at 1 AD
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0020-6.jpg


I have met 4 AI and have one of my two western bearing WB explorers still going and the eastern WB explorer is dead.

I have no religion in any cities. I am running all default civics except for slavery. Taoism founded elsewhere at 475 BC.

As for Dynamic Spirits' questions, I will say that the map reveal was extremely helpful in allowing me to get TGL. Without the micro stated in the pre-game thread, I would probably have missed it or gotten it at about 1200 BC. It also put to bed the question of trying to do a Quecha rush.

Interestingly, no barb cities spawned, which would have likely been bittersweet, providing cheap cities, but probably in the wrong spots!
 
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