BOTM67 (Sumeria) - Final Spoiler

[shulec]

What do you get when you go from this, on T264:

Spoiler :

To this, on T264:

Spoiler :

You get this:

Spoiler :

It's my own damn fault. Four tiles too many. Then on top of that, it is 50/50 domination or conquest. I dominated.


24.5 stupid hours.
126,225

 

[zamint3]

Four tiles too many.

I would

Give us some stats please
How many cities on that last turn and how many units did you use?

Glad to see I was right:

Spoiler :

I don't think conquest is possible with these settings.

 

[shulec]

Here are stats as requested:
At the end of T264 land: 48.33% I am in the clear right? Nope.
I killed 33 cities that turn. I killed three the turn before.

Early on I killed Freddy, Gandhi, Washinton and Darius. Pacal was my first target. He was kind enough to build me the Pyramids. So I left him his two crappy tundra cities. I wanted TGL from Darius and MoM from Washington.

I really wanted Hatty's land, but that would push my land to close to domination.

Hatty, Mansa, and Zara were the big techers. So I went after them first with the goal of killing all but on unit in every city. I took a few of their cities and held them a few turns before allowing them to be taken back. I gave some of the cities to distant AI with only 1-2 cities. I wanted to kill their tech rates, so I pillaged everything.

Hatty got rifle after I had most of her cities stifled. Mansa got steel and railroad before I got through with him, but he only built two Machine guns, and I killed them the turn I saw them.

Zara was a huge pain. He had the AP and I defied two resolutions for some serious unhappiness, then was forced into a peace ruling because I didn't want to defy a third. He was the last power to deal with. He had Grenadiers in my first war and rifles in my second.

My unit stats on T265:
Cannons
77 Built
49 Current
35 Lost
4 Killed

Rifles
56 Built
57 Current
10 Lost
52 Killed

Cavalry
79 Built
85 Current
21 Lost
0 Killed

 

[Minou]

Four tiles - ouch! Really nicely played though.

Was it a 50/50 chance? Never thought of this before, but now I am wondering if the Domination limit trips when you collect that last tile (which would be before the last AI is killed), or if the game waits until the end of the turn and then checks if you fulfilled one or more victory condition. Would be relevant to know with other competing VC too.

 

[shulec]

Was it a 50/50 chance? Never thought of this before, but now I am wondering if the Domination limit trips when you collect that last tile (which would be before the last AI is killed), or if the game waits until the end of the turn and then checks if you fulfilled one or more victory condition. Would be relevant to know with other competing VC too.

I've checked the code. Victory detection assigns the final selected victory as a random value from all available types at current turn (testVictory() from CvGame.cpp).

This part of code add winner team and victory type to the list of ready victories (aaiWinners):

std::vector<int> aWinner;
aWinner.push_back(iI);
aWinner.push_back(iJ);
aaiWinners.push_back(aWinner);

This part of code checks the size of victories list and got the random value [0; Victories Number). This value is used as Index in the victories list:

if (aaiWinners.size() > 0)
{
	int iWinner = getSorenRandNum(aaiWinners.size(), "Victory tie breaker");
	setWinner(((TeamTypes)aaiWinners[iWinner][0]), ((VictoryTypes)aaiWinners[iWinner][1]));
}

If you can read code, this apparently defines the victory. I have twice achieved conquest and domination on the same turn and both have been recognized as domination victories.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Awwwww!!!

That's a raw deal. I hate the 50/50 chance for glory

Spoiler :

except when it works

 

[Kaitzilla]

1130AD with Culture. Used the experimental spy strategy, and it worked just fine on normal speed. No tech brokering was kind of a bummer.

Never did meet Humbaba. <3 that guy. Still remember the first time when he came motoring in and scared the crap outta me.

Nice map, made a really fun Saturday

Sweet, should almost be the fastest finish date for culture in BOTM history now that I checked.

If you think spies are lame, head over to the GOTM thread "Culture through Espionage Exploit?", but don't mention this game as you might give something away about BOTM67 accidentally.



Beats all dates except for BOTM 17, which started with 3 cities and had OCC setting which let 5 national wonders be built in each city, but had a 3 city max. 1050AD finish date for that one.

Very strange settings for BOTM17, but so much participation! Click on the final spoilers link and see how popping things were 4 years ago.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/results/index.php?month=49999

 

[Mitchum]

Goal: Fastest Space Victory

If you&#8217;re bored by long, Dhoom-like posts, feel free to skip to the bottom where I post my results.

At 1 AD, I was in an interesting predicament. I was doing well with respect to expansion (13 cities, 63 pops, 12 workers), infrastructure (8 granaries, 3 forges, 2 libraries) and warfare (Washington eliminated and both Pacal and Fredrick down to 1 city each). However, my economy was in the toilet. I was break even at 20% research (46). I did have 1380 in the bank due to liberal tech trading, city capture gold and wonder fail gold, but I hadn&#8217;t even started down the CoL -> CS -> Paper -> Education path that is typical of a space victory. I had a lot of cities, but no ziggurats (even though they come with Priesthood instead of CoL) and only three libraries. Since I was going for space, I needed to fix my economy&#8230; or did I?

I had 26 military units chomping at the bit to keep the war machine rolling. I had just learned Construction not too long ago, so I was building war elephants and catapults now instead of exclusively horse archers, so I should be able to take cities without losing so many units. The time when I&#8217;d be facing archers instead of longbows was quickly closing too. So I decided to press on with the attack. I&#8217;d continue to grow horizontally (i.e. more cities) before trying to grow vertically (i.e. population, infrastructure, etc.) until my economy couldn&#8217;t handle it any more.

I declared on Fredrick in 25 AD and eliminated him the next turn in 50 AD, capturing his capital.

I then declared war on Darius 4 turns later in the far SE in 150 AD. He had a HA wandering around in Gandhi&#8217;s area and he captured an undefended Hamburg. He also had an axe and an archer in Gandhi&#8217;s area that I didn&#8217;t know about. Luckily, I had whipped a longbow to protect the city the turn before. A CG1 drill LB should be able to handle an un-promoted axe and archer, right? Nope. The axe attacked at 0.4% odds and took my LB down to about half strength and then the archer attacked at 24.5% odds and beat my LB, capturing NY in the process. I&#8217;m down 2 cities on the first turn of the war&#8230; isn&#8217;t it supposed to be the other way around? I finally take my two cities back and the rest of Darius&#8217; cities and Persia is out of the game in 225 AD.

OK, so by now, I&#8217;ve learned CoL -> Civil Service -> Paper (225 AD) thanks to all of the gold I had saved up and I&#8217;ve traded for Feudalism and Machinery so I start to add macemen to the mix. But my economy is in the tank even worse than before (i.e. about break even at 0% research) and Education is going to take forever&#8230; so I finally start to think about generating a GS for Education&#8230; about 2000 years later than I should have done.

While waiting for the GS to be born, I decide to continue to expand&#8230; when you&#8217;ve hit rock bottom, just grab a jack hammer and keep digging, right? So I DoW on Gandhi in 350 AD. Now I have to admit that I did something really dumb. Well, another something really since I&#8217;m always doing dumb things! Right before declaring war, I wanted to relieve Mr. Coke-Bottle Glasses of his gold (~100G if I remember correctly). The only thing I had to sell was Civil Service. I wasn&#8217;t worried about him being in Bureaucracy since he wouldn&#8217;t have his capital too long anyway&#8230; but I failed to realize that he had Machinery as well. So all of his swords instantly became macemen and the cities that I was planning to take (macemen vs. swords) became lopsided in the other direction since his maces were sitting behind city walls. To add insult to injury, Gandhi bribed Hatty into the war and she landed a big stack of units in my territory. Mind you, I had a strip of cities from Old Germany, through Old America all the way to Old Persia&#8230; and I was fighting a war on both sides and I had already moved almost all of my troops northward into India. So I had to dry whip LBs in a few cities and bring several of my &#8220;attack&#8221; army back to defend my cities. Luckily, I didn&#8217;t lose any cities this time.

I got a decent sized stack and tried to open up the Egyptian front at the same time as the Indian front. Big mistake! I moved my stack in and it got wiped out by an even bigger stack of Egyptian macemen and crossbows. I decided to pull back and sign a peace treaty with Hatty so I could focus on Gandhi... or did I? Nope!

Speaking of side quests, on the other side of the world, in 425 AD, Willem and Mansa declare war on Joao. Just what I&#8217;ve been waiting for&#8230; although I&#8217;m not ready to capitalize on it yet. But it&#8217;s interesting and so I try anyway (so much for focusing on Gandhi). Every single AI in the West is Jewish and for the life of me I can&#8217;t get it to spread to any of my heathen cities. I can&#8217;t expect the AI to send missionaries via galley, so I have to take matters into my own hands. In 560 AD I decide to dog pile on Joao. I&#8217;ve been pretty cheap on building galleys, so I land my initial massive SoD&#8230; all 2 galleys worth (i.e. 4 units )) next to his capital: 2 siege (can&#8217;t remember if they were cats or trebs), a mace and a war elephant to start bombarding. I send the galleys back with the plan of unloading 4 units/turn on the shores of Portugal. Not gonna happen! My stack gets wiped out even worse than my attempt into Egypt.

Meanwhile, in 640 AD, Pacal comes back from the dead with one city and declares war on me. At this point, I have 4 wars going on, none of them are going that well since I&#8217;m spreading myself thin, trying to do too much with too little. I&#8217;m not worried about Pacal though. I don&#8217;t have any units in the area, but he&#8217;s not going to hurt me with one city. I finally get around to taking his last city in 820 AD.

I keep getting distracted from the main point, which was to eliminate India. The war was long and drawn out. It took me forever and a day to capture his 3 measly cities. In fact, India didn&#8217;t exit the game until 880 AD some 25 turns later. How&#8217;s that for efficient warfare?

So, in 880 AD, I&#8217;ve eliminated Washington, Fredrick, Darius, Pacal and Gandhi. Hatty and Wang are still alive in the east&#8230; and my goal was to own the East by 500 AD.

Back on the tech front, I finally get my GS, bulb a large portion of Education, and then run my slider at 100% for a turn or two and I&#8217;ve finally learned Education in 640 AD!! I was still in war mode (i.e. massive whipping), so it took me several years to finish the six universities and Oxford University was finally finished in the capital in 1030 AD. That&#8217;s a pretty late OU for a space game&#8230;

Back to Joao. I never did sign a peace treaty with him. I bribed Zara and Sury into the war. I built two more galleys and a bunch of trebs and maces and then I went after him again in 920 AD. I captured his capital, which relieved a lot of cultural pressure on my core cities. But it didn&#8217;t have Judaism in it so I pressed on further west. I finally captured an inland city that had Judaism but it had so much cultural pressure on it that it could only work 3 squares. So I whipped about 4 Jewish missionaries and gifted it to Sury. I also worked with Zara and Sury to eventually eliminate Joao in 1170 AD. I have to admit that Sury and Zara did most of the heavy lifting. I was just there for &#8220;missionary work.&#8221; I did keep another city he had capture in the north because it had iron in the BFC.

At this point, I focused on getting my economy back in shape. I had about 40% of the land. I knew that this wasn&#8217;t enough, but it was all I could handle at the moment and I couldn&#8217;t afford another long, drawn-out war&#8230; yet!

In 1140 AD, I realized that 3 AI could research Liberalism. I had it within one turn of completion and I was hoping to get something big with it. So far, I had been putting nearly all of my espionage toward Mansa. So I decided to run the EP slider for a turn (30%) and direct enough points toward the other two AI so that I could see what they were researching. Lo and behold, Willem is going for it and has 6 turns to go. I panic and try to figure out the best tech I can get from Liberalism. The best I can do is Steam Power in 1200 AD, one turn before Willem got it. It&#8217;s hard to get a big tech when you&#8217;re trading so liberally with the AI&#8230;

I had been cultivating a 100% Great Engineer in Washington (the city with the &#8216;Mids) since before the birth of Christ. I was trying to build the Hanging Gardens in this city too but I lost them by 2 or 3 turns. In any event, my GE finally came in 1220 AD. He was my 4th self-generated GP (I also got the GM from Economics but passed on the GA from Music), which is quite lame for 1220 AD, but any time I thought about running specialists in another city, it was going to push my GE out to the 500 GPP or 600 GPP great person and that would have been too late. Poor Leonardo da Vinci had to sit around for 100 years (i.e. 10 turns) until he could be used to found Mining Inc. in 1320 AD. I spent the next ~10 turns spreading Mining Inc to all corners of my empire.

Remember how I said that my economy couldn&#8217;t handle another war? Well that lasted until 1350 AD, when I decided that Hatty had to go. She was winning the culture battle over &#8220;my&#8221; iron and she had 3 or 4 more Mining Inc resources that I wanted. I did the math and figured that I&#8217;d tip the scales at just under 50% of the land (domination was set at 51% in this game for some reason). It would be a bit close, but as long as I didn&#8217;t win any big culture battles in Old Portugal, I&#8217;d be fine.

I hate upgrading units but I didn&#8217;t want to lose any cities so I upgraded 3 maces to machine guns. I had one in each of my two &#8220;border&#8221; towns and one as a stack defender for my SoD. I also upgraded all of my siege from cats/trebs to cannons. I don&#8217;t remember how much I spent, but it was probably too much. I had one frigate along each coast to keep Hatty from pulling an &#8220;end run&#8221; and I had half a dozen knights in my stack which otherwise consisted primarily of macemen from previous wars. Heck, after my cannons were done, I could have taken cities with warriors. Hatty&#8217;s empire was stretched out and I was attacking from east to west, so it took a while to move my stack from city to city, but move that stack I did. Egypt was gone 9 turns later in 1440 AD.

OK, it&#8217;s 1500 AD, I&#8217;ve got 30 cities and a lot of catching up to do. With Mining Inc and 25 to 30 &#8220;free&#8221; base in each city, it&#8217;s pretty easy to build infra and keep the research slider at 100%. The hardest part for me is picking the ideal tech path toward space and trying not to duplicate research of the AI. Avoiding AI research was easy with espionage, but when I&#8217;m learning techs every 1 to 3 turns and it&#8217;s taking them ~10 turns to learn a tech, it&#8217;s hard to get too much from them.

All of the AI switched to Emancipation and I had to switch too in 1500 AD because the unhappiness was becoming unbearable. Not being able to run Caste System was brutal because I could no longer maintain 100% pure great people gene pools. So I had to roll the dice&#8230; and the dice failed me multiple times. I got three ~50% GMs in a row. I got a ~10% GSpy when I already had the GSpy from Communism that I was saving for my four-person Golden Age. Then I got another GSpy at ~15% odds. So I used one of them to wreak havoc on Wang, that crazy guy who peed in my well water more times than I care to remember which forced me to build healthiness buildings I didn&#8217;t really want to waste hammers on. My final, four-person Golden Age started 2 turns after the end of the three-person GA due to continually getting the same flavor of GPs. It was the GE from Fusion that saved the day. But my bad GP luck cost me at least one if not two turns in the end.

I was originally planning to found Sid&#8217;s too but there just wasn&#8217;t enough sushi on this map to make it worthwhile in my opinion. Maybe that was a mistake&#8230; I never did get to the one-tech-per-turn rate. The end game techs were taking about 1.5 turns each or so. Having Sid&#8217;s probably wouldn&#8217;t have helped too much since I was limited to how many scientists I could run in each city due to not being able to run Caste System down the stretch. I&#8217;d be interested to see if anyone was able to successfully use Sid&#8217;s and Caste System to research on tech per turn.

Which brings me to the end&#8230; finally. If you&#8217;ve read this far, you have too much time on your hands&#8230;

End result: Space Victory in 1675 AD for a score of 169,527 (6,795 base). The game log says almost 41 hours. I did leave the game running over night twice, but that&#8217;s still a lot of time&#8230;

Thanks for reading. I look forward to comparing this game to other space games if anyone is interested.

EDIT: completely forgot about Humbaba...

 

[Mitchum]

Sweet, should almost be the fastest finish date for culture in BOTM history now that I checked.

Nicely done!

Joao DoWed me, and moved a huge stack of ~25 units into my territory, but on his side of the mountains. If the mountains weren't there, I would have lost one of my Legendary cities.

I'm sure that you almost crapped your pants when you heard the war horns. It would have been even funnier if he teleported over to you somehow ala SGTOM-17. Did you have a few improvements over there that he could pillage so that he could at least get something for his effort?

 

[Falabello]

Compairing this with Falabello, we are very similar! Firstly, just for kicks... we both played exactly 2 minutes short of 3 hours! More importantly...

-He is slightly ahead of me in tech, but I have a bit better research rate.
-He has an extra city, but I have 3 extra pop.
-I do have GL in which is an advantage.
-HG is still out there for him. If he can get it, that is an advantage for him.

Hey, your guide is beginning to show results ! For sheer lack of what to do in my job, today I print some stats to compare and realized that:
- z3 and Mithcum had the best idea. Capturing several cities (and some capitals) in the early game gives a giant advantage to a great score and date .
- I’m very happy with my result (only till 1AD) – I think my game wasn’t so good, but this time I’m getting closer to a good one. I didn’t build any cottage, but I guess I’m not prepared for that (and I see that this was a wrong idea). And the rest of the game was a complete failure! I repeated this game till 1AD, changing the location of cities, using cottages, #2 city as GPFarm and 3# city with stone building Pyramids as soon as possible and the result was much better. I need to gain more experience in next XOTMs…

Overall, the positions seem comparable.

Again, I’m very happy and I think I’m on the right track ! Thank you very much for your support !

 

[Falabello]

Which brings me to the end… finally. If you’ve read this far, you have too much time on your hands…

Thanks for reading. I look forward to comparing this game to other space games if anyone is interested.

Hey! Your game deserves an attentive reading ! I'll arrange time only for that !!!

 

[PattonTwo]

So I have a very odd post. I'm not done yet, but moving towards a space victory. However the Apollo Program has disappeared. Yeah I really mean disappeared.

I went back and loaded the autosaves (didn't move anything just loaded) to check. Two turns ago I was 2 turns from building the Apollo Program. Then the last turn the city was building a factory (which was lined up in the queue as the next build) but there is no Apollo Program in the buildings list for that city and yet it isn't an option to build anymore.

I saved, exited, restarted, opened the game and advanced the turn (wondering if it was built but just wasn't showing up) but nothing so I have saved and paused.

Two questions.

1. Can anyone suggest what I'm missing?
2. Do I need to send a current save to someone for the okay to continue? My latest play session will consist of only 1 turn and a couple minutes but I have the last 5 turns of autosaves to confirm my story. (Plus I'm "pushing" for a space victory before the 21st century and probably won't make it so it's not like I'm messing with my game for a great result!)

 

[PattonTwo]

Problem resolved by deckhand, thanks!

 

[PattonTwo]

Mitchum that's a great writeup on a great game. Enjoyed the read.

I did submit my 1950 space victory but was a frustrating game due to a couple dumb mistakes on my part.

I had decided to try for a space victory so I wouldn't spend as much time on the game (lol, that didn't work) and focused early on trying to maximize my city placement to make the best use of the starting location. I figured I'm not great at early war and trying to do so with galleys was not going to work well for me so I just wanted to fill my land.

My first mistake was a big one. I founded Kish (2nd city built) in 1600 BC. I had mapped out mentally where I wanted the cities and had a warrior holding the spot for Kish. But when the settler got there I spaced out for a moment and settled one space further south than I intended. The end result was I lost room for 2 additional cities at the south end of the starting zone.

I had 5 cities built (4 + capital) in 1000 BC and was happily on my way. Decided to grab some wonders. My second big mistake was not worrying about how quickly I had them built. In a span of 125 years from 275 BC to 150 BC I lost out on Pyramids, Great Library (big ouch), and Parthenon the first two when I was only 2 turns from completion and the last one 4 turns from completion. I'll confess I almost rage quit at that point. I did "rage close" and didn't come back to the game for 2 weeks.

After that I just set about going for a space victory as best I could and while I didn't manage it as well as I could have I did end up with a victory which I wasn't sure for a long time I would get.

So more lessons learned. =/

Overall the game was great and I rather liked the protected starting area which gave a choice between a peaceful game and war. I just still have a lot of improving to do!!

 

[Mitchum]

@ PattonTwo

I'm glad that you enjoyed the write up!

Try using the dot mapping capability provided with Buffy. Hit Alt-X to open it up. You can then indicate where you want to place each city to visually see the BFC of each one (right clicking removes a BFC that you're already laid down). You can change the color of the BFC to chose one that stands out better. To toggle the dot map function on and off, hit Ctrl-X. This should help you with figuring out your city placement and ensure that you settle on the intended tile.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I had decided to try for a space victory so I wouldn't spend as much time on the game (lol, that didn't work)

I think if you don't want to spend long on the game, the trick is to aim for a defeat

I had 5 cities built (4 + capital) in 1000 BC and was happily on my way. Decided to grab some wonders. My second big mistake was not worrying about how quickly I had them built. In a span of 125 years from 275 BC to 150 BC I lost out on Pyramids, Great Library (big ouch), and Parthenon the first two when I was only 2 turns from completion and the last one 4 turns from completion.

Wow, that is unlucky. It's not often the great library goes that early on this level. Usually I reckon I'm safe till some time after 1AD on monarch. I'm not surprised to see the pyramids and Parthenon go in the BC years though. Especially given that this game had more AIs than usual, so you'd expect more competition for the early wonders.

 

[zbgayumn]

Wow, so does that mean in your game Wang Kon managed to kill Humbaba? That would be quite impressive.

Wang Kon was also occupying that northern island in my game. I left his city up there after conquering the others, because it just wasn't worth the trouble.

 

[jesusin]

1585 AD Culture

Played a strange unfocussed game, built 6 cities, but then sprinkled the Cathedrals in all 3 of my legendary cities. This was because my GP farm (Corn/Clams) was also my best production city. Didn't assign any specialists until really late, as I didn't have the food. Therefore, no Academy.
GP farm was busy cranking out wonders.

Where was your third Legendary city?
Surely your capital, with Bureaucracy bonus, was more adequate for building wonders than your GPFarm, wasn't it?

Harder: catching late extra religions doesn't happen, as the AI just doesn't seem to put missionaries on boats.

Oh, they do, I was finally given the AP religion little after 1500AD.

 

[jesusin]

jesusin, contender challenger. Goal: fastest cultural victory. Result: 1545AD.

My first spoiler indicates clearly that I wasn't putting all my concentration on the war to conquer Seoul.

Dowed as late as 125AD. I had to attack without softening the walls when I saw the first lb appear. The fact that the chosen unit for defense was a Catapult instead of a Vulture also influenced my decision!
10Vultures+3Cats should have been enough against 5 defenders, but RNG decidedd it wasn't.
I lost the war.

I had to be satisfied with 8 cities

First to Music. SoZ built.

Since I have not invested in missionaries I am quite delayed in buildings production. That makes me decide not to bulb my second GS on Education, but intentionally delay Liberalism, while keeping the GS for a GoldenAge in which revolt to FS+religion+Castes+Pacif.

I think that not having a religion for so long was a mistake. I had not spread any religion so the returns for 1 turn of anarchy weren't appealing.

My 3 legendary:
Capital with WW and later artists.
Corn+Clams site as GPFarm. So-so one.
Marble+Cows+Horses+Gems site S, with many cottages. Too weak on food.

4th religion spread.

3Cath+Hermitage on capital
3Cath on GPFarm
2Cath on cottages city

Liberalism 840AD.

1000AD Stats: 8 cities, 83 pop, 7 workers, 17units (3Cats), 5 strategic resources, 6 luxury resources, 10 health resources, 4 great people, 4 world wonders, 3 national wonders, food/production/commerce=209-60-1105, 32 sustainable beakers per turn, 750 culture per turn(useful), 88 great person points per turn, 1000 gold. 4 religions. 12/13 cottages used, 43 Techs: Liber, Music, Natio, Guilds. 0 civs killed. 14 hours played. reli/city, temples, caths== 29,20,7

Mercantilism and TajMahal 1080AD.
1500cpt, 320 GA GPppt at 1250AD.

Worked a lot on food and specialists balancing in order to get GPs from the 3 cities that would have never popped one (too low on food) if I had done nothing. Failed partially (only got 2 GA), I was lazy.

Cult 1545AD. Mult 4.5-3.5-3, bombs 1-7-7, base 200-100-150, GS for Philo, Gpro+GS+GM for GAges, 15GA bombed, total 19GP, 2 of them for free.



All in all a horrible game where I didn't find the way to balance expansion, WW building and War.


By the way, I loved the map, it was a very fun scenario.

 

[Folket]

I abandon my game. I just had funnier games to play. I tried for a conquest victory. My tank was was not effective enough so I was just clicking end turn waiting for nukes when I lost interest.

Just to many units in the end game. And the suspense was lost since I knew I had won and could take any victory.