Brave New World announced!

[CanaDutch]

Hah! I did and was never so unlucky! See it depends on what map you are playing. If you are playing a map where you are squashed in with other civs, culture flipping can really be a pain.

I don't play for cultural victory, currently it is rather boring. Perhaps it will become much more interesting. As far as learning how it works, that will go for all of us. The same goes for the rest of the new features. I will certify this, we will all master them in no time.

Now the question I have with culture flipping is, is it border flipping or city flipping? If it is city flipping they must be out of their minds. Cities should not change hands through culture, but through war, or trade. For the most part war. To change this now is rather odd. If culture affects cities it should be through immagration and population, reduction of happiness perhaps, but not ownership. That is how I see it anyway.

It's been a long time since I've played Civ 4 with KMod, but from what I remember opposing cultural borders aren't much of an issue when you conquer your opponents anyways .

From what I've read, in the new expansion, you only get unhappiness when another civilization has chosen a different ideology than you and their culture, or tourism score is higher than yours.

 

[filli_noctus]

It's conceivable that instead of uncontrollable city flipping rival culture could generate unhappiness in a city and once that reaches a tipping point a diplo contact would be initiated with the option to give the city to the rival civ, which would significantly boost relations and shed the unhappiness, or refuse which would slightly damage relations and leave you to figure out a way to strengthen your culture in the city or otherwise deal with the unhappiness.

 

[mitsho]

Just saw those news, quick comments/first thoughts:

Trade Routes as actual units on the map? Very sceptical on this as it's a) lots of micromanagment/lack of oversight, b) hassle to protect, c) may lead to AI overkill like the missionary/Great Prophet Spam. They need to do quite a lot more to sell this to me.

Other features look fine and interesting.

8 new wonders seems good, but why are they all European (4/8) or Western (5/8) and they don't seem to add new wonders in the Industrial and later eras which in comparison to the earlier ages should get a few more wonders!

 

[kaspergm]

Browsing through the last couple of pages, I see a lot of discussion on "culture flipping" of tiles and/or cities - but has this actually been confirmed? I haven't seen any mention of this, only that culture/tourism can create secondary effects like unhappiness if you are behind compared to your neighbors.

I really don't hope to see culture flipping return in the extent it was in Civ3 or Civ4. Civ3 was really bad, you couldn't do any meaningful warfare, because towns would insta-flip back to original owner (killing any units stationed in town - GAH!). Civ4 was also not a very good system, I hated how my border-towns would start gobble up ring-3-4-5 tiles from neighboring civs, tiles my own towns couldn't work, so they didn't really benefit me, and my neighbors would be really angry with me for stealing their territory - and I didn't even have the option to give them the land back if I wanted to keep a good relationship with them.

 

[anandus]

Just saw those news, quick comments/first thoughts:

Trade Routes as actual units on the map? Very sceptical on this as it's a) lots of micromanagment/lack of oversight, b) hassle to protect, c) may lead to AI overkill like the missionary/Great Prophet Spam. They need to do quite a lot more to sell this to me.

The amount of trade routes are limited, you start of with one land and one sea trade route. Later on you can get more trade routes. In a typical game you have about seven or eight trade routes in the end of the game.
So I don't think there will be a lot of trade route spamming.

 

[mitsho]

8 trade routes per 6 civ on a standard map = 48 additional civilian units running around next to great peoples, workers, settlers, missionaries, inquisitors and then archaelogists and the enemy military units that can block them has to run into problems of clogged up maps. It also means I can block my city against enemy civilians if I surround them with military units. Something I need to do even now against enemy Great Prophets f.e. It's an exploit some say and thus very problematic from a gameplay design point of view, but it's effective.

I personally would much rather have had the clean system like we have with espionage. Some things should be on the map, I dislike the "tables and sheets" approach other games have like f.e. Crusader Kings II and I do agree that civ should put as much on the map as it can, but trade routes don't seem the best way to do that to me. As I said, they have time to convince me, but from that little tidbit, I'm skeptical.

 

[Jabberwockxeno]

This is perfect.

I had longed planned of making an Economic victory and a active culture victory mod relating to owning a % of the worlds resources, but the trade routes make the whole process easier.