Brave New World's 9 new Civs

[Art Grin]

Now that you mention it, that woman on the cover by the Freedom speaker kinda does look like Lucrezia Borgia.

I guess this is going to be another backstabbing female leader in this game. Prepare for the trio of betrayal: Catherine, Dido and Lucrezia!

Spoiler :

I think he was referring to the blonde woman on the cover, which I think is just supposed to be a generic Merilyn Monroe look alike.

 

[Nujabes]

That looks like every blonde white lady ever, not to mention the fact that she makes no sense in that particular part of the picture, or the larger picture at all.

 

[Hans Castorp]

Deep down you know that adding Lucrezia is something Firaxis could really do.

Alas yes.

 

[PhilBowles]

I would have much preferred a cultural militaristic Greece, I hope they change it slightly. Perhaps throw in an odeon or the Academy

I'd prefer them to take that route with Rome (whereas now, Rome's ability ... speeds building production time? What's characteristically Roman about that?). Rome was simultaneously a cultural and a military powerhouse; Greek cultural accomplishments and Greek military might are mostly associated with two different entities. Not necessarily fairly - Athens was militarily successful, while Alexander's Macedon had lasting cultural impacts - but I think civ abilities should reflect what a civ was best-known for. A Roman culture + militaristic civ is a natural fit for Rome, while a culture + militaristic Greek civ will make people think it's an attempt to stick Macedon/Sparta and Athens together in a weird agglomeration. The current Greece-as-Macedon civ is a better fit for one specific period of Greek history.

The Hoplite is more Spartan than Athenian (they'd be represented by naval warfare, culture or democracy)

The hoplite isn't particularly associated with Athens, but hoplites were far from unique to Sparta. They make perfect sense as a UU for a Macedonian-themed Greece.

If Italy is in, I don't think Mussolini will be their leader. Same reason goes for Hitler.

Mussolini isn't close to being as reviled a figure as Hitler. There was no Italian-led Holocaust and fascist Italy wasn't responsible for the occupation of major European powers. Also, of course, in typically American-centric versions of WWII Italy doesn't even feature because it was forced out of the war in 1943, a year before major American involvement in Europe.

In the wider world he's mostly thought of as something of a joke, and somewhat harmless (not very fairly on Italians or Ethiopians) - and as Italians on the thread have made clear he's not considered an important contributor to recent Italian history. So Mussolini is a feasible leader in "PC" terms, but since there's no obvious audience for him among the Civ-playing demographic and better options have been suggested, he's unlikely.

 

[Art Grin]

Alas yes.

Although I think they'd have hard time coming up with a loading screen speech for her.

The hoplite isn't particularly associated with Athens, but hoplites were far from unique to Sparta. They make perfect sense as a UU for a Macedonian-themed Greece.

I'd say a sarissa armed phalanx would've been more fitting for Macedon, the current hoplites are clearly pre-Alexander.

 

[Scaramanga]

I'd prefer them to take that route with Rome (whereas now, Rome's ability ... speeds building production time? What's characteristically Roman about that?). Rome was simultaneously a cultural and a military powerhouse; Greek cultural accomplishments and Greek military might are mostly associated with two different entities. Not necessarily fairly - Athens was militarily successful, while Alexander's Macedon had lasting cultural impacts - but I think civ abilities should reflect what a civ was best-known for. A Roman culture + militaristic civ is a natural fit for Rome, while a culture + militaristic Greek civ will make people think it's an attempt to stick Macedon/Sparta and Athens together in a weird agglomeration. The current Greece-as-Macedon civ is a better fit for one specific period of Greek history.



The hoplite isn't particularly associated with Athens, but hoplites were far from unique to Sparta. They make perfect sense as a UU for a Macedonian-themed Greece.

Well, I think Rome's ability is more subtle. They had excellent engineers and spread their designs around their empire like baths and aqueducts and such. People were promised prosperity if they conformed to Roman ideals so that makes the resulting uniformity of your cities with the capital Rome somewhat realistic.

 

[sukritact]

Well, I think Rome's ability is more subtle. They had excellent engineers and spread their designs around their empire like baths and aqueducts and such. People were promised prosperity if they conformed to Roman ideals so that makes the resulting uniformity of your cities with the capital Rome somewhat realistic.

I suppose that's what they were intending. Seems very logical now that you bring it up.

I do wonder if there's a way to link tourism to war. I think that'd be interesting for Rome: spreading Culture via War.

 

[GFNeves]

I suppose that's what they were intending. Seems very logical now that you bring it up.

I do wonder if there's a way to link tourism to war. I think that'd be interesting for Rome: spreading Culture via War.

In a way, they have already done that. Brazil's UU helps them get , and GAs help them with tourism because of the brazilian UA.

 

[sukritact]

In a way, they have already done that. Brazil's UU helps them get , and GAs help them with tourism because of the brazilian UA.

More directly I mean; a way to represent how Romans exported their culture to the lands they conquered.

 

[Scaramanga]

More directly I mean; a way to represent how Romans exported their culture to the lands they conquered.

Build a monument in Rome, then build a monument in the captured city.

 

[wigwam]

Out of interest, would anyone welcome a cultural element in the Greek Civ?

Yes! In another thread, I tried re-imagining Greece to focus on culture, great people, and maritime trade (with BNW's features in mind). This is what I came up with:

Greece
Odyssey: Each turn, each of your Naval Trade Routes generates extra Culture equal to 20% of the destination City's Culture-per-turn.

Studio (replaces Stone Works): +2 Culture on Marble and Copper. +25% Great Artist generation. Does not provide happiness or production bonuses. No resource requirement.
Macedonian Phalanx (replaces Pikeman): -1 Strength. +20% Strength when defending. Costs 60 . Available with Drama and Poetry.

This wasn't the most popular of my reinvented civs (I think people thought the UA was a little too powerful and the UU was a bit too different), but I still like the ideas. The UB represents a tradition of marble and bronze statuary and helps produce great works as well as a little bit of regular culture if you've got marble or copper; the UU lets you pursue the cultural/religious branch of the tech tree and still defend yourself (Philip of Macedon was supposedly inspired by Homer's poetry to invent the sarissa pike).

 

[Louis XXIV]

Build a monument in Rome, then build a monument in the captured city.

Yeah, I think that Rome's ability, in part, is to represent this. I wish they had cheaper courthouses or something as well, though.

 

[Scaramanga]

Yeah, I think that Rome's ability, in part, is to represent this. I wish they had cheaper courthouses or something as well, though.

Oh I see. That might be unbalanced. In a roundabout way, being able to build cheap cultural buildings exported from Rome would get you to the Police Stare policy that much faster.

 

[Xen]

The hoplite isn't particularly associated with Athens, but hoplites were far from unique to Sparta. They make perfect sense as a UU for a Macedonian-themed Greece.

That is ridiculous - the "Hoplite" is THE word for a heavy infantry citizen solider in the southern Greek states, and by the time of the Persian wars were fighting in a uniform style across southern Greece. They are ubiquitous to all the Greek city states south of Thessaly.

Macedonia however, is not known for them at all, and its infantry prowess came from a significantly different soldiers, the "palangite", whom was more lightly armored, armed with significantly longer spears, fought in deeper formations, and were largely drawn from peasant farmers from the Macedonian countryside int he name of their king, not the citizen soldiers - the potters, the bakers, the fishmongers marching lock step in service of their polis.

 

[phaethon16]

I guess this is going to be another backstabbing female leader in this game. Prepare for the trio of betrayal: Catherine, Dido and Lucrezia!

Catherine's not backstabbing; she's always very upfront about how much she hates you.

 

[Bonci]

In the wider world he's mostly thought of as something of a joke, and somewhat harmless (not very fairly on Italians or Ethiopians) - and as Italians on the thread have made clear he's not considered an important contributor to recent Italian history. So Mussolini is a feasible leader in "PC" terms, but since there's no obvious audience for him among the Civ-playing demographic and better options have been suggested, he's unlikely.

I think it's undeniable he was important for italian history. Important in a bad way, but still important

That being said Firaxis will never do it, because it could possibly alienate a lot of italian buyers.
Also being represented by him, when there are a lot of other options, could result quite offensive (It would not have the echo of Hitler in Germany, but still he is seen as a very bad guy in Italy nowadays).

In a ww2 scenario it would be ok, but not in a game of the scale of civilization.

 

[otaman1]

Macedonian Empire
Leader: Alexander the Great
Capital: Pella
UA: Hellenistic Age - During Golden Ages, +2 extra culture & science; can move freely through city-state territory without penalty
UU: Companion cavalry - replaces horseman; +1 extra movement & strength; can move after attacking
UU: Phalanx - replaces spearman; +50% bonus vs mounted units; starts with new promotion Phalanx Formation


Athenian Empire
Leader: Pericles
Capital: Athens
UA: Delian League - +2 extra production bonus when building a defensive building; +1 extra culture from every cultural building in the capital
UU: Peltast - replaces spearman; throws javelin first before attacking
UB: Panathenaic Stadium - requires marble near the city to be built; +2 tourism & provides +3 happiness


Spartan Empire
Leader: Leonidas
Capital: Sparta
UA: Agoge - produce melee units faster; all melee unit can attack twice without the Logistics promotion
UU: Hoplite - replaces spearman; +3 strength; can heal every turn without the March promotion; +50% bonus vs mounted units
UB: Military school - replaces barracks; +20 experience for all units built in this city; all unit built in this city start with Drill I

Promotions:
Phalanx Formation - +15% defense against range unit; +45% defense against ancient melee units; +60% defense against cities

 

[Gucumatz]

No Minoan or Mycenaean ?

 

[pedropavani]

Well, if Firaxis was really, really, in the mood for a female Italian leader, they could put Matilda of Tuscany, at least she was a leader. (but I don't know a lot about her, and she don't fits the Renascence theme) Lucrezia on the other side, despite being a cool character in history, is actually not a good choice, I mean, if you are going to put a non-leader on the spot, Garibaldi would be a way more interesting choice.

I know it is cool to have more female leaders, but sometimes Firaxis just tries to hard. Joanna D'Arc of France in Civ III was one of the worst cases. Ugh.

 

[EricTheGreat12]

Well, if Firaxis was really, really, in the mood for a female Italian leader, they could put Matilda of Tuscany, at least she was a leader. (but I don't know a lot about her, and she don't fits the Renascence theme) Lucrezia on the other side, despite being a cool character in history, is actually not a good choice, I mean, if you are going to put a non-leader on the spot, Garibaldi would be a way more interesting choice.

I know it is cool to have more female leaders, but sometimes Firaxis just tries to hard. Joanna D'Arc of France in Civ III was one of the worst cases. Ugh.

Joanne of Arc was actualy a good choice; she was pretty good leader wise

I think that they should actualy put a male leader like a famous Italian king or something like that ...