Brave New World's 9 new Civs

[Bonci]

Venice might represent Italy even less than Rome does. Venice controlled the area around Venice and nothing else on the Italian peninsula.

Well it depends on what you want to represent.

If you want to represent italian culture, then Venice represents it better.
If you want to represent italian ethnicity, then Venice represents it better.
Of course if you want to represent Italian territory, then Rome would represent it much better (and beyond ).

Venice's oversea territories were considered colonies.

All this new info is really destroying the possibility of Venice for me

 

[Crodface]

It's close enough that it's not worth repeating.

It is not close at all. Nothing about the Roman civ represents a modern Italy or even middle age/Renaissance Italian States. Completely separate political system and cultures.

Spain and France are as much "Roman" as Italy would be. The Byzantines are probably the closest thing. America and England are closer linked than Rome and Italy.

And aside from Rome itself, even the cities are completely different.

But we don't need to start this conversation again. Still disappointed of a lack of a true Italian representation...

 

[shocky27]

Although not a fan of Venice, it's hard to argue their influence on world history. The city-state itself changed the world with Renaissance art and the advent of capitalism as we know it today. Venice also has history as a naval empire, so its hardly "unworthy". I just wish Hungary or Vietnam would be included over them

 

[ImperialChaos]

I want Tuscany.

 

[Andrew1022]

Why not all of Italy instead of just Venice or Florence ect to represent it?

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Well it depends on what you want to represent.

If you want to represent italian culture, then Venice represents it better.
If you want to represent italian ethnicity, then Venice represents it better.
Of course if you want to represent Italian territory, then Rome would represent it much better (and beyond ).

Venice's oversea territories were considered colonies.

All this new info is really destroying the possibility of Venice for me

It's just a scenario. In the past they've used all kinds of crazy things to represent all kinds of crazy people.

 

[Ricardo_]

What if the "new european civ" is reworked France?

 

[Crodface]

Well it depends on what you want to represent.

If you want to represent italian culture, then Venice represents it better.
If you want to represent italian ethnicity, then Venice represents it better.
Of course if you want to represent Italian territory, then Rome would represent it much better (and beyond ).

Venice's oversea territories were considered colonies.

All this new info is really destroying the possibility of Venice for me

As a Sicilian, I do not feel Venice represents many parts of Italy. As you know, each region is very distinct in its culture. Even the languages are very different.

Sicily and many other parts of Italy are as much Venetian as they are, say, Spanish.

 

[PhilBowles]

"Puny"? And Ethiopia wasn't puny compared to Italy? But they still respect them for their heroism (Ethiopia I mean, not Italy).

Puny in what sense? Until the Italians withdrew they hadn't succeeded in securing control over the whole of a very large country. Ethiopia was the only sub-Saharan African country to retain its independence during the colonial era (the main colonial era in Africa) - Liberia doesn't really count because it was only founded at that time.

And that's on top of, as others have noted, an extremely long history as a major African and previously major classical empire, and a post-WWII history as a leading African nation and founder member of the United Nations. Even if you consider Ethiopia's early 20th Century as comparable to Serbia's earlier 20th Century, Serbia has nothing else going for it in its history while Ethiopia does. Serbia has only ever been a battleground for European and Turkish powers in the Balkans.

 

[Crodface]

Why not all of Italy instead of just Venice or Florence ect to represent it?

This was the hope, for me at least, but the alphabetical clues make that impossible.

 

[Option]

Why not all of Italy instead of just Venice or Florence ect to represent it?

My guess would be because after the Western Roman Empire fell apart, the smaller duchies and city states were in complete control of the peninsula until the 19th century (even if they were owned by royal families of bigger powers, they were still those nations). The Italian Renaissance and the cultural influence happened during the era of the split Italian nations.

So if Firaxis wants to represent the Italian Renaissance, as well as the cultural and artistic peak during that time, using Italy as a whole would be comparably anachronistic. Instead, using one of the more influential smaller realms is much more accurate, and Venice being one of those with the most influence on European and global history seems like a fairly good choice.

 

[anandus]

Venice is a God awful choice as a civ.

Why?
They had a large (trade) empire, and it's visible all around the mediterranean.

I've seen the winged lion on buildings in so many different countries around the mediterranean, it's quite impressive how far and wide the Venetian influence was.

 

[Option]

Why?
They had a large (trade) empire, and it's visible all around the mediterranean.

I've seen the winged lion on buildings in so many different countries around the mediterranean, it's quite impressive how far and wide the Venetian influence was.

And even above their territorial influence, Venetian merchants were famed throughout all of Europe and beyond.

 

[Tsar NicholasII]

Although not a fan of Venice, it's hard to argue their influence on world history. The city-state itself changed the world with Renaissance art and the advent of capitalism as we know it today. Venice also has history as a naval empire, so its hardly "unworthy". I just wish Hungary or Vietnam would be included over them

^^ I would have also taken Bulgaria over them

 

[PhilBowles]

I am tired of repeating this, but Rome =/= Italy.

Everyone else is tired of repeating this, but as far as Firaxis is concerned it is, and always has been. The only times they've ever broken the rule that two civs with a shared history can't be included are the Holy Roman Empire (with Germany) and Gallic Celts (with France). The Papal States and Italian city-states are important enough to history that if the developers didn't feel they were adequately represented by Rome, they would have been a civ long before now.

 

[ImperialChaos]

The Venetian Republic was a major power economically, politically, and militarily. Why are people against it?

 

[Martin23230]

BAD NEWS however.
Just looked the image of the achievements. This is the symbol of Italy on the African scenario.

. Roman symbol. It really takes a little of my faith that Firaxis will finally come to its senses and add Venice or Sicily as a Italian civ. I swear, if Civ 5 ends with italians being represent by Rome it is going to be disgusting, not even the fact that my homeland is finally represented into the game would cover that wound.

There's something that just doesn't sit well with me about this.

We know in scenarios they are capable of creating new icons for the non-full Civs included. We can see that they've done this in BNW for the CSA, and for the Boers in SFA (the horn from the arms of the Orange Free State). So why would they keep the Rome icon for Italy?

 

[Option]

I personally agree with most of you saying that there's a few cultures that should've been included over Venice, but I think that Venice fits the bill for what new gameplay mechanics the expansion brings. The expansion focuses on trade, culture and diplomacy, all of which Renaissance Italy and with it Venice have been known for.

I think the addition of the Serenissima is very exciting, personally. Then again, I'm a big sucker for Venice.

 

[tnick777]

What if the "new european civ" is reworked France?

I just thought it was a changed Rome color scheme. There's no reason to discount the idea that it's just a changed color marker for an existing civ.

 

[PhilBowles]

I've seen the winged lion on buildings in so many different countries around the mediterranean, it's quite impressive how far and wide the Venetian influence was.

Yes, it even extended to Assyria...

The winged lion motif is not original to Venice.