Brave New World's 9 new Civs

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Well I'm happy to see Morocco and Indonesia in the game and I'm ready to concede that Hungary will not be in but I'm more than disappointed and upset about it, more on that later. :sad: First...

Venice is a God awful choice as a civ. If it had to be Euro, you may as well have gone with Hungary or some Eastern Euro nation.

Venice is not really a bad choice but Hungary should have gotten the first choice.

Morocco's contribution is much more than Serbia in world history, and at least as good as Hungary if not more.

Morocco is a good choice, but whether or not its contributions exceed that of Hungary's depend on whether or not you include al-Andalus in the definition.

The Venetian Republic was a major power economically, politically, and militarily. Why are people against it?

I'm against it only because this was a zero sum game and the remaining European slot should have gone to Hungary. I'll elaborate on that more at some point in a thread where it will be on topic and post a link here. I don't want to sidetrack this thread. :)
 
Forgive me for my ignorance but could one of our distinguished Italians tell me how far the post WWII nationalist repression went? The Allies were pretty hard on Germany but Italy, more or less, switched sides before the war ended.
 
About Ragusa: is there the possibility to change the CS name to Dubrovnik (present day Ragusa)?

Anyway, there are TWO Ragusas (the other being a Sicilian town). :p
 
God reading the Facebook page is awful. Do any of these people even play the game or did the just randomly stumble onto the page?
 
Forgive me for my ignorance but could one of our distinguished Italians tell me how far the post WWII nationalist repression went? The Allies were pretty hard on Germany but Italy, more or less, switched sides before the war ended.
It was more a matter of political correctness. No more discussion on the 'fatherland' or stuff like that. All the parties valued the importance of the partisans' resistance against the Axis as "true patriotism".

After WWII there were two main parties in Italy: the Christian Democrats and the Communist Party. Both parties had their main 'national' reference in a country which was outside the official boundaries of Italy (Vatican and USSR). The communist also developed a political line called "the Italian way to socialism", which was pretty original and pro-democratic, but also patrioctic in a particular way.

Eventually, national discourse shifted to the European level on both the center and the left.

Finally, let me remark that patriotism has never been high in Italy, which was always characterized by a more local and regional level of "national" feeling. The Mussolinian discourse was quite artificial.
 
Because the epicenter of the Venetian empire was, well, Venice which was an italian city state. There is little to no sign of dalmatian/greek/turk culture in what is considered Venice.

Venice was(is) italian, as England was(is) european despite having colonies everywhere.


But I don't want to derail the thread...I just wanted to share my concern about the venetian situation ._.

There is a heap of Byzantine influence on Venetian architecture. You also have the Fondaco dei Turchi which implies there was a not insignificant turkish presence.
There's a fair amount of Venetian culture in dalmatia, crete and probably a few other islands.

I see Venice as having been Venetian, not Italian. It became Italian over time and like many of the differing cultures on the Italian peninsula got hit hard by the education system prioritising the Italian language.
 
I'm against it only because this was a zero sum game and the remaining European slot should have gone to Hungary. I'll elaborate on that more at some point in a thread where it will be on topic and post a link here. I don't want to sidetrack this thread. :)

I'd agree that of the few remaining European civs, Hungary would have been the best option - however I suspect that Poland rather than Venice took its likely slot (same general area of Europe, one of the two European civs that could be representatives of the ideology mechanic without changing Russia or Germany - and with the civ list and abilities mostly revealed it seems that Poland is intended as the sole "ideology civ").
 
It was more a matter of political correctness. No more discussion on the 'fatherland' or stuff like that. All the parties valued the importance of the partisans' resistance against the Axis as "true patriotism".

After WWII there were two main parties in Italy: the Christian Democrats and the Communist Party. Both parties had their main 'national' reference in a country which was outside the official boundaries of Italy (Vatican and USSR). The communist also developed a political line called "the Italian way to socialism", which was pretty original and pro-democratic, but also patrioctic in a particular way.

Eventually, national discourse shifted to the European level on both the center and the left.

Finally, let me remark that patriotism has never been high in Italy, which was always characterized by a more local and regional level of "national" feeling. The Mussolinian discourse was quite artificial.
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Yes, even still there isn't a strong sense of nationalism, aside from things like football. Italy has and still is very regionally focused.

Even tho there are political entities who favor a divided Italy, there is still enough of a shared identify that I don't ever see it happening. Mussolini's efforts, however artificial at the time, have had a lasting impact. Italy is much more unified now than it was prior.
 
It was more a matter of political correctness. No more discussion on the 'fatherland' or stuff like that. All the parties valued the importance of the partisans' resistance against the Axis as "true patriotism".

After WWII there were two main parties in Italy: the Christian Democrats and the Communist Party. Both parties had their main 'national' reference in a country which was outside the official boundaries of Italy (Vatican and USSR). The communist also developed a political line called "the Italian way to socialism", which was pretty original and pro-democratic, but also patrioctic in a particular way.

Eventually, national discourse shifted to the European level on both the center and the left.

Finally, let me remark that patriotism has never been high in Italy, which was always characterized by a more local and regional level of "national" feeling. The Mussolinian discourse was quite artificial.

Thank you
 
I'd agree that of the few remaining European civs, Hungary would have been the best option - however I suspect that Poland rather than Venice took its likely slot (same general area of Europe, one of the two European civs that could be representatives of the ideology mechanic without changing Russia or Germany - and with the civ list and abilities mostly revealed it seems that Poland is intended as the sole "ideology civ").


Exactly my thoughts!! I'd love to have Hungary, I'd prefer them over Poland, but, since we got Poland, please, no Hungary.
 
So basically South America is Inca, Brazil, and city states.
 
Well now I'll be rooting for Romania as the euro civ. Not the most deserving but at least their leader exudes personality. Vlad the impaler also pushed back the ottomans and was mentioned in the civ iv civlopedia at least
 
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