Brazil discussion thread

[SandroTheMaster]

Why am I the only one who feels they're treating Brazil as a joke civ?

Seriously? Party your way to victory? Keep an eternal Carnival? What is this, a civ marketed to fratboys?

The Carnival is little more than a glorified holiday. Maybe a catalyst of creative endeavor, but one that matters so little to the civilization and identity of the country. The ethnic cultural diversity is by far much more relevant and shaping of the country's current state. Oh, and doesn't feel like a joke. Even in the press releases and every demonstration they made they treated this as a joke.

And really, win battles to party harder? With the Pracinhas, who were considered little less than convenient cannon fodder to keep Italy busy while the rest of the allies fought the real war against Germany? The force that's only notable for being able to fuel political propaganda for a Dictator?

And finally, an improvement that's linked to a commodity that has only ever benefited Portugal in the entirety of colonial history? Brazil itself never exploited Brazilwood nor did it gain any benefit from it. At best, Brazilwood is a burden to Brazil that was left with trying to preserve it in modern times. Oh, and built in Jungles, too. Because Brazilwood was found in the Amazon, right?

Yep, truly a Civ to inspire awe and respect.

 

[moysturfurmer]

honestly if u ask me brazil have a Pele UU and their UA could be something like "biggest cuontry in south americandna" and it could make it so ur civ is always the biggest in sourjksadnkl;sadfmklvf

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[GFNeves]

Why am I the only one who feels they're treating Brazil as a joke civ?

Seriously? Party your way to victory? Keep an eternal Carnival? What is this, a civ marketed to fratboys?

The Carnival is little more than a glorified holiday. Maybe a catalyst of creative endeavor, but one that matters so little to the civilization and identity of the country. The ethnic cultural diversity is by far much more relevant and shaping of the country's current state. Oh, and doesn't feel like a joke. Even in the press releases and every demonstration they made they treated this as a joke.

And really, win battles to party harder? With the Pracinhas, who were considered little less than convenient cannon fodder to keep Italy busy while the rest of the allies fought the real war against Germany? The force that's only notable for being able to fuel political propaganda for a Dictator?

And finally, an improvement that's linked to a commodity that has only ever benefited Portugal in the entirety of colonial history? Brazil itself never exploited Brazilwood nor did it gain any benefit from it. At best, Brazilwood is a burden to Brazil that was left with trying to preserve it in modern times. Oh, and built in Jungles, too. Because Brazilwood was found in the Amazon, right?

Yep, truly a Civ to inspire awe and respect.

The UA is indeed incredibly stereotypical, but you must remember that they are using Brazil to show off their new features. If this does not justify it, it at least explains why the are taking this route.

About the UU, I actually thought it was a very interesting reference to the consequences of FEB's participation in WW2 to the country's internal politics ( I actually made a post about it a few pages back).

 

[Human Crouton]

Why am I the only one who feels they're treating Brazil as a joke civ?

Seriously? Party your way to victory? Keep an eternal Carnival? What is this, a civ marketed to fratboys?

The Carnival is little more than a glorified holiday. Maybe a catalyst of creative endeavor, but one that matters so little to the civilization and identity of the country. The ethnic cultural diversity is by far much more relevant and shaping of the country's current state. Oh, and doesn't feel like a joke. Even in the press releases and every demonstration they made they treated this as a joke.

And really, win battles to party harder? With the Pracinhas, who were considered little less than convenient cannon fodder to keep Italy busy while the rest of the allies fought the real war against Germany? The force that's only notable for being able to fuel political propaganda for a Dictator?

And finally, an improvement that's linked to a commodity that has only ever benefited Portugal in the entirety of colonial history? Brazil itself never exploited Brazilwood nor did it gain any benefit from it. At best, Brazilwood is a burden to Brazil that was left with trying to preserve it in modern times. Oh, and built in Jungles, too. Because Brazilwood was found in the Amazon, right?

Yep, truly a Civ to inspire awe and respect.

It's not a joke civ, but you seem to so lack a sense of humor that we'd be unable to explain to you why people are making jokes.

The UA is about Brazil currently becoming a cultural powerhouse with the World Cup and Summer Games upcoming. So they were looking for a cultural hook for their UA, and decided to go with "Carnival" because it happens yearly instead of naming the UA "World Cup 2014".

 

[pedropavani]

Canival is as much as stereotypical as any other UU,UB or UA. They just want something nice from a country to justify a mechanic, don't take it seriously or on a personal way.

 

[Ricardo_]

What's better for a UA than something easily recognizable by everyone?

 

[SandroTheMaster]

What's better for a UA than something easily recognizable by everyone?

What about something with any actual relevance to the country on a deeper level than "that party that happens once a year to distract the people from any real national issue"?

So far the whole thing looks too slapped together. It feels to me that the entirety of the meeting on the development of the civ in the game was thus:

"So, Brazil. Anyone know anything about it?"

"Well, there's carnival. It is colorful."

"Yes, a celebration! We can link it to the Golden Age. Give it some token bonuses. Like for our new tourism. Perfect!"

"But what about an unit? Does anyone know anything about Brazilian military?"

"I'll be damned. Looks like they took part in WW2. Take whatever they called their infantry on that and slap it in. And winning means more carnivals, right? That's brilliant!"

"Hey, does Brazilwood have anything to do with Brazil?"

"It seems that's where it came from. Since Brazil is all jungle, make it a jungle improvement the sawmill that harvested it."

"Right. Great. What about a leader? Has anyone ever heard of a great Brazilian leader? Well? Anyone? Come on, there must be one! Ok, research something up. I'm sure there was one of note at some point."

It just seems like they included it for the sake of including it. In every demonstration they can't seem to talk about Brazil without joking about it. And even when trying to talk about it outside game mechanics all they had was: "It's a pretty important country right? They're hosting the next Olympics... and the next World Cup..." And that's it. That's all were able to say about the country. None of this feels like an inclusion that is being taken seriously.

 

[pedropavani]

Oh yeah, because we do expect a perfect expressions of the country on a game bound to many mechanics and with limited ways to show it.

What other functional UA could Brazil have? Fatherland Voluntaries is out of question since the civ was not made to be military focused. The only other thing I can imagine is something related to farmlands (since both coffee and livestock are key engines to the country economy), but such system is not the focus of expansion, and sincerely, would it be less stereotypical? I think not.

And furthermore, carnival is completely justified, they needed a CIV to use the tourism feature of the game. France as a whole got re-edited to just make something to mirror the fact that Paris is the most visited city in the world, of course the Carnival is a natural choice when you think in something that makes a hellish lot of tourism to a nation. I think it is a overrated event, that don't change the fact that a lot of tourism is made on such event.

Oh and just correcting one thing, since I got a lot of ancestral that fought on the WWII (A few which I had the joy to talk), the pracinhas were not cannon fodder, they were live mine detectors

Just stop making such a storm on a glass of water and enjoy the probably extra awesome music D.Pedro II will have on the leader screen.

 

[Ricardo_]

Carnival is pretty relevant to Brazil, a huge boost to tourism, important to the majority of catholics, widely recognizable abroad, an ideal choice of UA. Many people don't like and don't care about it, myself included, nevertheless it is much more than a great orgy and Rio's parades.

So far nothing has led me to believe this is an under-thought civ made just to fill space.

 

[Ikael]

To be fair, Brazil's design seems to take the same route of other civs of "pop culture taking precedence over actual culture". Go ask the Chinese about Wu Zetian leading their civ or Germans about the Holy Roman Landsketch, for example. I was totally expecting a marihuana coffee house UB for the Dutch or a Mexican sombrero UI for the Aztecs.

Seriously, you can design a civ rettaining its flavour and historical accuracy while preserving its in game balance. This very forum is brim with great ideas in this regard, and the prevalence of many topics aiming to redesign previous old civs points out to the fact that many of us think that most civs were ill-designed. Still, seeing how France got a complete overhaul, I have my hopes up

 

[Art Grin]

To be fair, Brazil's design seems to take the same route of other civs of "pop culture taking precedence over actual culture". Go ask the Chinese about Wu Zetian leading their civ or Germans about the Holy Roman Landsketch, for example. I was totally expecting a marihuana coffee house UB for the Dutch or a Mexican sombrero UI for the Aztecs.

Seriously, you can design a civ rettaining its flavour and historical accuracy while preserving its in game balance. This very forum is brim with great ideas in this regard, and the prevalence of many topics aiming to redesign previous old civs points out to the fact that many of us think that most civs were ill-designed. Still, seeing how France got a complete overhaul, I have my hopes up

The Landsknecht is totally fine and fits in very well with Germany.
It's the UA which based around the stereotype of German barbarians running around and torching thing down.

 

[Imalich]

It just seems like they included it for the sake of including it. In every demonstration they can't seem to talk about Brazil without joking about it. And even when trying to talk about it outside game mechanics all they had was: "It's a pretty important country right? They're hosting the next Olympics... and the next World Cup..." And that's it. That's all were able to say about the country. None of this feels like an inclusion that is being taken seriously.

Inclusion being taken seriously? C'mon, bro, this is the entertainment industry. Of course they joke around things and add them on base of how fun they could bring into the fold.

Carnival, altought stereotypical, is something entirely predictable. It wasn't such a surprise, you know? I am, myself, quite happy Brazil has finally managed to made it into the series. This may serve as reference for better development of the civilization in future games.
Brazil's history - along with south american, BTW - is not that widely known worldwide. SA has not been the world's decision center nor the world's issue center - that alone, justifies a little of the outspread ignorance about our region.

The only thing that bothered me a little was the expeditionary force ability. That golden age thing makes sense with the civilization mechanics, but was a bit forced, I think. But even with that, I found the FEB inclusion interesting - it seems they made a little research, at least.

 

[EricTheGreat12]

Is it me, or is it that if a player decides to play as Brazil the culture victory would be too easy?

 

[Ricardo_]

It certainly is the victory condition it was designed for. But easiness really depends on the player.

It certainly won't be easy for me playing on Immortal or Deity.

 

[Petiscator]

Hmm... I partially agree with SandroTheMaster. I didn't like "Carnival" as Brazil's UA, but I don't mind seeing it, because it looks very nice to play with! I liked the UA mechanics a lot, even though "Carnival" wouldn't be my choice. It is stereotypical, but it is well known. I would prefer something else, but I'm already incredibly happy that my country is in. If they didn't put a Carnival UA, there would be something like a Soccer Stadium UB, so I'm glad we only have the first. It looks very cool in game, and that's what matters.

Regarding the UU and UI: I would have chosen different stuff for both. There are many suggestions for this in a MODS thread (Federative Republic of Brazil), which I've taken part of. We could have had the Guarda Nacional, Voluntários da Pátria, Dragões da Independência and the Bandeirantes, for example, but I didn't find the FEB a bad choice at all, specially with the GA points bonus regarding the propaganda. As for the Brazilwood Camp, I would have chosen an Engenho for a UI, but I liked it. The jungle requirement is probably for a balance reason, not because of the stereotype, as building them everywhere would be kind of OP, no? Even though it was technically a portuguese improvement, the Colonial Age was also part of our history and I'm fairly happy it is also included.

TL;DR: Some of the choices were stereotypical/not the best ones, but Brazil is in game and their bonuses look cool, so I'm fine with it.

 

[VermelhoRed]

TL;DR: Some of the choices were stereotypical/not the best ones, but Brazil is in game and their bonuses look cool, so I'm fine with it.

This sums up my thoughts too.

 

[Liex]

It certainly won't be easy for me playing on Immortal or Deity.

It certainly won't be easy for me playing on King

I think I'll have trouble managing the Golden Ages. I mean, first you'll need a lot of Great Works and stuff to generate Tourism, then you shall bring on long and frequent Carnivals. Early Carnivals probably won't be desirable. That requires some planning on which building and wonder to build and when, much like playing as the Persians...

...But then Montezuma declares war, you have to stop building Chichen Itza to save you neck and ends up losing the wonder to Kamehameha...

 

[ImperialChaos]

Question for you Brazilians: how come your nation produces the most beautiful women on the planet?

On topic, Brazil is still looking like my favorite civ announced so far. I don't know much about the actual Carnival but it still will be an amazing feature for this expansion. And the infantry units have snake icons.

 

[nunor]

And the infantry units have snake icons.

Smoking snakes!

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

The Pracinhas unit icon is definitely the best unit icon.