Here is the transcript while I was involved. I will try to highlight the important parts later, but for now, you can all suffer as we did.
Whomp says:
hi chamnix
Kentharu says:
chamnix is another rep from the team
Whomp says:
Bede are you here?
chamnix@hotmail.com says:
Hello all
Tubby Rower says:
hi
Whomp says:
Let's talk about long term plans
Bede says:
Good Morning chamnix
Kentharu says:
im listening
Bede says:
I'll take it from here, I think.
Kentharu says:
alright
Bede says:
It makes some sense to us that two nations with such complementary traits should participate in long term research sharing arrangement rather than merely broker knowledge back and forth like common traders. Would that approach fit with the longer term obejectives of MIA?
Kentharu says:
took the words right out of my mouth, we would love long term relations with your great nation
Whomp says:
Should we discuss what we have and you have first?
Bede says:
I see we have reached one important point of agreement, so let's open a few kimonos.
Kentharu says:
we should, shall i start or shall you?
Kentharu says:
the choice is yours
Bede says:
We are peace loving agricultural nation but believe that the best defense is a strong offense
Bede says:
Accordingly we are developing our lands to grow quickly but at the same time we will have a strong military. We currently know the secrets of of BW, Pottery, Warrior Code , Ceremonial Burial & will shortly know the secrets of forging iron.
Kentharu says:
we have Alphabet (as you know), Bronze, and iron working and will currently be revealing the secrets of this circular thing our researchers call the Wheel
Whomp says:
Are you considering a govt?
Kentharu has left the conversation.
Your invitation to join this conversation could not be delivered to Kentharu.
Bede says:
Looks like Kentharu's connection has dropped.
Chamnix says:
Yes, I must apologize on his behalf - I have no idea what the problem could be, but I will try to contact him.
Bede says:
No problem. He appears to have lost his connection completely.
Whomp says:
do you know what you're preferred govt is chamnix?
Chamnix says:
Yes - our current plans involve eventually establishing a glorious Republic.
Whomp says:
so would it benefit both of us if we start on writing?
Chamnix says:
I agree - we both want writing, but there is certainly no need for us both to expend energy researching it.
Whomp says:
indeed
Kentharu has been added to the conversation.
Bede says:
So, the question now becomes which of us are best positioned to undertake that task.
Kentharu says:
sorry for the mistake (cruddy connection)
Kentharu says:
Chamnix has informed me that both our nations wish for a Republic gov't
Kentharu says:
and that writing should only be researched by one nation
Whomp says:
indeed. do you think we can beat donuts to the sling?
Kentharu says:
if we work together i believe we can
Kentharu says:
how do you know of the donuts?
Bede says:
Which raises another interesting question: have you been able to see another continent?
Kentharu says:
no we have not, we have no ships the same as you correct?
Whomp says:
we don't have alpha
Bede says:
As we still lack knowledge of Alphabet we have not built any ships and our exploring warriors have seen no hints of another landmass
Kentharu says:
neither do our warriors, perhaps when we are able to draw maps we could share the knowledge we gained from our seperate explorations?
Kentharu says:
And we are also willing to trade Alphabet for other techs
Bede says:
To summarize where we stand right now: Pottery, Warrior Code , Ceremonial Burial are held by the Celts, while our Greek neighbors know Alphabet and Iron Working. We are in agreement that a Republican government is desirable for both and that we must know Writing to achieve it. (It goes without saying that at least two other secrets are also necessary). To get that knowledge it is desirable that
Bede says:
our two nations share the burdens and advantages.
Bede says:
Is this a fair summary of the position
Kentharu says:
a very fair summary
Kentharu says:
we are willing to take on the researching of writing
Whomp says:
I don't think you can finish before us.
Kentharu says:
why?
Bede says:
I have to then ask the question: is your economy strong enough to undertake that task in a timely fashion. The beaker cost of writing is 240.
Whomp says:
can you finish in less than 15?
Kentharu says:
we can finish it in less than 15 turns
Whomp says:
wow. what's your beakers per turn?
Kentharu says:
so is it agreed? we will take on the research and you masonary and mysticism
Kentharu says:
are you will to trade something for Alphabet?
Kentharu says:
our beakers are set to finish it in less than 15 turns
Kentharu says:
as you requested, but will you beable to finish masonary and mysticism in the same time?
Whomp says:
we are confused how you can get 16 beakers with 5 citizens?
Kentharu says:
cities will be built accordingly, you have nothing to be worried about
Daghie has been added to the conversation.
Soul Warrior has been added to the conversation.
Whomp says:
To build trust between our great nations to be please consider the fact that we cannot have met any other civ while the mighty Greece can. We would be filled with joy by any information that clearly shows you have not been approaced by others. Take this as no accusation but a mere wish for a solid ground to stand on when we make further arrangements.
Soul Warrior says:
howdy all
Kickbooti has been added to the conversation.
Nikodemus has been added to the conversation.
Whomp says:
We have more Simpletons joining us.
Kentharu says:
i see
Kickbooti says:
Greetings.
Daghie says:
I've just been calle upon to participate in this very interesting meeting. Greetings to you all an especially our Greek neighbours
Kentharu says:
greetings to you all, i am glad that your nation's citizens take such an active role in dealings outside of their country
Soul Warrior says:
that's free citizens...
Daghie says:
And what a country, what a great continent this could develop into
Whomp says:
What does MIA hope to come away with in this conversation?
Kentharu says:
indeed it can, our people stress continental unity
Kentharu says:
we would hope that you have a tradeable tech for Alphabet
Whomp says:
is that all?
Kentharu says:
and the understanding that both our great nations strive towards the same goals
Kentharu says:
republic of course
Whomp says:
is that all?
Kentharu says:
is there more?
Daghie says:
We do have techs vital to trade an so do you. I'm intersted in the role of peace here. How o the Greek people look upon this matter
Kentharu says:
we are a peacfull people and do not seek any war with the great celtic nation
Whomp says:
how about with the other nations?
Kentharu says:
what about them?
Whomp says:
What is your view of each?
Kentharu says:
we want peace for all
Kentharu says:
and i would hope the same for you? yes?
Kickbooti says:
I believe that our peaceful intentions are mutually recognized, the question before us is what is the most expeditious way to acheive our Republican ends...
Kentharu says:
as before i have agreed that the greeks will research writing
Kentharu says:
and you masonary and mystisicm i would hope
Daghie says:
Our start on those woul be better if we could get on with it asap
Kickbooti says:
Pardon the earlier disruption, it requires some repetition. What is the timetable you are considering for such an arangement?
Kentharu says:
15 turns or less
Kentharu says:
and i would hope you can finish in the same time
Whomp says:
Without a granary?
Daghie says:
We have a few turns left on iron working which is burden to be honest
Whomp says:
as they with the wheel
Kentharu says:
we have iron working, perhaps a trade?
Kentharu has left the conversation.
Kentharu has been added to the conversation.
Kickbooti says:
I long for the day when internet technology can better facilitate the trading of alphabet and the like
Whomp says:
I think we can agree pottery is as important to you as alpha is to us.
Kentharu says:
indeed but i must stress that alpha is worth more than pottery
Kentharu says:
twice as much to be exact
Soul Warrior says:
the noble greeks seem to forget that the people are base and think with thier bellies before thier minds
Kickbooti says:
The exchange rate may be a bit different in Athens. Perhaps we should simply agree on cooperateive research and leave tech trades for later.
Chamnix says:
I am not a diplomat - I am a straight talker. It seems we have been dancing forever with nothing accomplished. Here is what seems to be fair - Alphabet for Pottery and Warrior Code. They have the same tech costs and a curragh would be very useful to you. We will also be happy to relieve you of your burden of completing Iron Working, but our scientists would be severely offended if we gave
Chamnix says:
their hard earned secrets away for nought. Perhaps some gold would assuage their feelings
Kickbooti says:
Currah's would be nice, from our perspective graneries are even more essential. Your price seems steep. Let us take Iron Working off the table...
Chamnix says:
Iron Working can be a separate discussion, but the price seems even to me: WC + Pottery = Alphabet.
Tubby Rower says:
no way
Kickbooti says:
We would be willing to trade Pottery and WC for IW and Alphabet.
Whomp says:
We seem to have come to an impasse'. Why?
Kentharu says:
that is more than unfair
Whomp says:
Hmm...
Kentharu says:
unless you want to trade Alpha for pottery and a Worker
Kickbooti says:
We are three turns from IW, making its burden to us negligable.
Tubby Rower says:
you give us a worker.. great
Kentharu says:
no you give us a worker
Whomp says:
Without pottery you can not grow. Without alpha we can not sail the seas.
Kentharu says:
no IW
Whomp says:
We will finish IW then
Tubby Rower says:
We will have IW in 3 turns if we are to mutually research it makes sense to allow us to start a new project 3 turns earlier
Chamnix says:
Let's understand each other's positions. We are reluctant to part with alphabet without getting equally costly techs in return. You are reluctant to part with pottery because you believe it is more valuable than its tech cost indicates. Fair enough?
Kickbooti says:
Well put.
Tubby Rower says:
correct
Daghie says:
Spot on my friend
Soul Warrior says:
ditto
Tubby Rower says:
Do you not agree that Pots are a stronger tech than Civ AI's realize
Whomp says:
You have 5 citizens and we would believe you like to grow
Chamnix says:
Civ AIs are not relevant. What matters to us is how long it would take us to research it on our own. Pottery would not take very long, but I think we agree that both of our civs would be better off if we did not have to spend that time.
Kickbooti says:
I fear the tone has gotten more cantankerous than I beleive any of us feel. If tech trade is a bone of contention - let us simply agree to research goals. We could resaearch and trade Masonry and Mystecism in exchange for you researching and trading Writing.
Kentharu says:
how true
Kentharu says:
simple agreements are needed
Whomp says:
My concern is we miss the philo sling by a turn because the beakers are not at the pace of Donuts
Kentharu says:
have you had contect witht he Donuts?
Kentharu says:
contact
Whomp says:
How?
Whomp says:
Do you?
Kentharu says:
you mention Donut a lot that is all
Daghie says:
We can not have contact w/o alpha, you can for all we know
Whomp says:
I believe donuts started with alpha and may have gone writing already
Tubby Rower says:
HAve you met D'nuts or TNT?
Chamnix says:
I think it would be a crying shame if we cannot agree to some tech trade - you need Alphabet, and neither of us wants you to research it on your own.
Whomp says:
We would like to be in a republic
Kentharu says:
and so would we
Tubby Rower says:
I repeat, have you met D'nuts or TNT?
Kentharu says:
we have not
Whomp says:
Thank you.
Whomp says:
Neither have we
Whomp says:
OK can we start from the top.
Kentharu says:
from the top itis
Kentharu says:
it is
Whomp says:
We both would like republic. There is a need to figure who can get to writing faster than the others correct?
Kentharu says:
correct
Whomp says:
OK. For you to increase your beakers it is important to grow.
Kentharu says:
indeed it is
Kentharu says:
and to grow we need granary
Kentharu says:
and to meet others you need Alpha
Kentharu says:
correct?
Whomp says:
Assuming we care whether we meet them or not.
Kentharu says:
assuming
Whomp says:
Correct. However not nearly as critical as growth.
Kentharu says:
but we are a commerce civ
Whomp says:
More citizens more commerce
Whomp says:
I would think this is valuable and something your country would like to get started on sooner than later.
Soul Warrior says:
i think we need to have some executive decisions happening soon
Whomp says:
You can easily get this from D'nuts once you meet but we would prefer a mutually tech exclusive relationship. 1+1=3 seems to make sense in my simple mind
Chamnix says:
Bottom line - we have alphabet, you want alphabet, we want you to have alphabet. We want fair value for alphabet. You consider pottery to be too valuable. What are you willing to part with? Gold, a worker - what can you offer to make us feel like we are not being cheated?
Tubby Rower says:
What about all known techs to be traded with a small gold amount from the Greeks?
Kentharu says:
and you think that fair?
Soul Warrior says:
we do
Tubby Rower says:
by my calcs it is 300 - 306 for beaker cost
Kentharu says:
alpha is worth the same as two of your techs and then you would want IW along with gold, come now
Tubby Rower says:
but Pots are much more valuable than they are shown in Civ
Kentharu says:
like Whomp said what of value?
Tubby Rower says:
IW is almost complete
Daghie has left the conversation.
Tubby Rower says:
WE have 3 techs that you don't know and you have 2 we don't know
Tubby Rower says:
seems fair to me
Whomp says:
wc is also very important tech
Whomp says:
in a pbem
Tubby Rower says:
I'm sorry the beakers were 180 -186
Kentharu says:
it is a military tech, and you have assured us you have no agreesive intentions correct?
Soul Warrior says:
we did
Soul Warrior says:
and?
Whomp says:
We have peaceful intentions.
Kentharu says:
then what is the need for a military tech?
Tubby Rower says:
for barbs
Whomp says:
A strong offense is a good defense
Soul Warrior says:
or wild aztecs withnukes
Kentharu says:
we have sufficient warriors to deal with barbs, they are no threat
Tubby Rower says:
So why are you researching the Wheel?
Soul Warrior says:
friendly farm ponies?
Kentharu says:
how did you guess
Whomp says:
Back on topic please
Kentharu says:
alright final off Aplha for CB and WC and iron working for gold
Kentharu says:
if you do not wish to trade IW then finish it on your own
Whomp says:
We would like some mutual exclusivity and think it can be worked out. Is there interest in this tupe of arrangement?
Kentharu says:
exclusive tech trading yes
Whomp says:
peace?
Bede has left the conversation.
Kentharu says:
peace of course
Whomp says:
contacts?
Kentharu says:
what about them?
Whomp says:
shared?
Kentharu says:
i would have to consult with my superiors but yes i think we can
Tubby Rower says:
What price will IW set us back?
Kentharu says:
how much are you willing to give us?
Tubby Rower says:
I asked you first
Your invitation to join this conversation could not be delivered to
emperornapoleon@hotmail.com.
Tubby Rower says:
Are we speaking with the decision makers here?
Kentharu says:
no i am the team Rep
HSL Armando has been added to the conversation.
Whomp says:
Hello HSL
Kentharu says:
FE is the decision maker, but he is asleep
HSL Armando says:
about time
Whomp says:
Hmm...he is not available on IM
HSL Armando says:
My name is Emp. Napoleon, forgien minstery helpers
HSL Armando is already part of this conversation.
Kentharu says:
the same as i
Soul Warrior says:
good to see a minister of caliber here
Whomp says:
Hello Emperor. It is our honor.
HSL Armando says:
Likewise
Whomp says:
We seem to be hung up here on some issues.
HSL Armando says:
tell me about your problems
Kentharu has left the conversation.
Whomp says:
We would both like to be in a republic. We are concerned about your beakers per turn with 5 citizens
Whomp says:
I think we both realize that a happy continenent is a good continent.
Kentharu has been added to the conversation.
HSL Armando says:
are we trading our ABC's?
Whomp says:
We are at an impasse'.
Kentharu says:
sorry for the drop
Kentharu says:
again i put the deals before you countless times
Whomp says:
I understand Kentharu.
Kentharu says:
Aplha for CB and WC and iron working for gold
HSL Armando says:
you have a trained perffessional here now, speak to me
Whomp says:
ok
Whomp says:
We have cb, wc and pottery. We finish IW in 3
Whomp says:
We would be interested in helping you grow your 5 citizens with pottery.
Whomp says:
We feel in a pbem pottery and WC are actually pretty valuable like alpha.
Kentharu says:
but i do not
Whomp says:
hmm
HSL Armando says:
grow our 5 citizens? what is that?
Whomp says:
We believe you have 5 countrymen to our count
HSL Armando says:
yes
Whomp says:
This does not give us enormous confidence you can beat donuts and get a sling rolling.
HSL Armando says:
well, we will see when we meet them
HSL Armando says:
but how would we know how strong they are?
Whomp says:
We don't know since we have no contact. However if they went straight to writing our sling is not happening.
Kentharu says:
can we get back to Alpha?
HSL Armando says:
yes, sorry
Whomp says:
Alpha is one very small piece to the whole picture. If a simple trade is all you want then we can make it so. We were hoping for so much more.
Chamnix says:
The whole picture is made up of many small pieces. Each piece we agree on, we can place and not have to revisit. I think by accumulating small pieces, we may reach the big picture you hope for.
Kentharu says:
like a puzzle obviously
Whomp says:
We will finish IW with or without help. We can extend small deals but it doesn't seem to add up to 1+1=3 to me. I hope for more.
Chamnix says:
1 step at a time. You know I am not authorized to speak for MIA, but I have seen the following deals bandied about:
Whomp says:
do tell
Chamnix says:
1. Alphabet for Warrior Code and Ceremonial Burial. 2. Seperately do IW for gold. 3. Alphabet plus IW plus gold for WC, CB, and Pottery. Which teams will accept which of these?
Whomp says:
And the price of IW?
Chamnix says:
I realize 2 and 3 will depend on how much gold, but are they possibilities?
you all need medals
