Britain/England - Modern Age Civilization speculation

[Boris Gudenuf]

I mean, I honestly don't see Britain having a twentieth century UU as a good direction for them, overall. It doesn't really fit their golden age, nor the age where they built that golden age, but rather an era of desperately clinging to power as the empire faded and other powers rose. Their UU belongs earliervin the age.

But that aside, UUs seldom are particularly deep accurate reflection of the actual pros and cons of the represented unit - they're some kind of iconic unit of their country in that era granted some vaguely related bonuses as a general representation of their civilization's historical success in a particular time window.

Earlier in the Modern Age, then, there are, I think, two potential military Uniques for Britain/England:

The 74-gun Ship of the Line - although invented by the French, Britain built far more of them throughout the 18th and early 19th century, and at one time they were almost half of all the ships of the line in service with the Royal Navy. They were considered the 'perfect compromise' between firepower and maneuverability. The ship of the line itself, assuming any 'Modern' sailing vessels (which I don't believe we've seen yet in any graphic or video) should be a general unit, since, again, everybody built them. But the '74' would be a nice British Unique from the Power Century of the Royal Navy from about 1750 to 1850 when it dwarfed all the other navies of the world combined.

The Redcoat, as mentioned elsewhere, has been a symbol of the British Army since 1654, when it was first adopted for the New Model Army. It also has a built in set of Upgrades, from matchlock musketmen in the 17th century to 'Brown Bess' flintlock carriers of the 18th century to scarlet-coated riflemen of the Crimean and Zulu Wars. If nothing else, the redcoat with good graphics will remind gamers of every movie made involving British troops from Tom Jones to Zulu.

Reference the Battleship/Dreadnaught, by the way. I believe they may be including both the first generation coal-burning slow 'dreadnaughts' AND the later 'Fast Battleships':

The first image looks very much like the earliest dreadnaughts, with main gun turrets mounted off center-line as well as the heavier armament to the rear.
The second image resembles an in-game version of the Iowa class battleships of WWII, the classic 'fast battleship' type.

Makes perfect sense, given the trend in Antiquity and Exploration Ages using a basic Unit and 1 - 2 Upgrades within the Age.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

^ Still I don't understand why FXis loves Iowa class so much. the other example of Superdreadnoughts of WW2 is Yamato. actually more famous because 'it went to space!' while Iowa didn't

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

^ Still I don't understand why FXis loves Iowa class so much. the other example of Superdreadnoughts of WW2 is Yamato. actually more famous because 'it went to space!' while Iowa didn't

It also went to the bottom of the ocean in pieces - while the Iowa didn't.

 

[AriochIV]

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These have been spotted in Civ videos, maybe one of them a British UU. Spitfire fighter would also be possible.

My pick would be Dreadnought, they are such a cool concept.

Neither of these can be British unique units, because they were spotted in French and American forces, respectively.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Earlier in the Modern Age, then, there are, I think, two potential military Uniques for Britain/England:

The 74-gun Ship of the Line - although invented by the French, Britain built far more of them throughout the 18th and early 19th century, and at one time they were almost half of all the ships of the line in service with the Royal Navy. They were considered the 'perfect compromise' between firepower and maneuverability. The ship of the line itself, assuming any 'Modern' sailing vessels (which I don't believe we've seen yet in any graphic or video) should be a general unit, since, again, everybody built them. But the '74' would be a nice British Unique from the Power Century of the Royal Navy from about 1750 to 1850 when it dwarfed all the other navies of the world combined.

The Redcoat, as mentioned elsewhere, has been a symbol of the British Army since 1654, when it was first adopted for the New Model Army. It also has a built in set of Upgrades, from matchlock musketmen in the 17th century to 'Brown Bess' flintlock carriers of the 18th century to scarlet-coated riflemen of the Crimean and Zulu Wars. If nothing else, the redcoat with good graphics will remind gamers of every movie made involving British troops from Tom Jones to Zulu.

I think it would be interesting if a potential Redcoat unit would have look like a Ship of the Line when embarked.

 

[Evie]

There's no "the other superdreadnought": if the Iowa was a superdreadnought, then so was almost every ship in World War II.

Superdreadnought is not a name that means the biggest and baddest ship at any one point in time like you seem to be using it. It just refers to an even larger, better version fo the Dreadnought that began to emerge in the Naval Arms race around 1910, and that were the primary type of warship in the First World War - everyone had and used superdreadnoughts ; they were, essentially, the second-generation Dreadnoughts, and have about as much in common with Iowa and Yamato as a Mig-21 does with a F-22. The only way they can be called super-dreadnoughts is if every battleship built from 1910 onward gets called a super-dreadnought. Which is a valid use, but then Yamato and Iowa aren't even close to the only super-dreadnoughts in world war II: almost all battleships of the main combatants in WW2 (well, except those two German pre-dreadnoughts Germany was allowed to keep) are super-dreadnoughts.

The terminology for what Yamato was exactly is a matter of discussion since there were really no other ships like that class ; Iowa is generally considered by just about every reputable naval historian as a fast battleship.

(And Space Battleship Yamato wasn'T even called that in in English - it was Starblazers. Yamato's fame, to the extent it exists, is solely about how big it was ; not about what tv show it was in. The Iowas meanwhile are all preserved museum ships in the US (as are a number of the superficially similar South Dakotas and North Carolinas). This also means that there is far more reference material available for the appearance of the Iowa, South Dakotas and North Carolinas than for the Yamato, so it's likely much easier to use them to represent a late 1930s 3x3 turret layout battleship, than using Yamato. (Plus, using the Iowa-NC-SD for the generic battleship actually makes it possible to make Yamato a Japanesse UU, which would make much more sense than using the Yamato as the generic unit and the Iowa as the UU);

@Boris Gudenuf - disagreed on the first battleship image - whiel the main armamant layout is clearly that of an early dreadnought, the secondary armament is pure pre-dreadnought and entirely out of place for a Dreadnought.

 

[notNamed]

And Space Battleship Yamato wasn'T even called that in in English - it was Starblazers. Yamato's fame, to the extent it exists, is solely about how big it was ; not about what tv show it was in.

Counterpoint, Starcraft Battlecruisers shoot Yamato guns, not "Iowa guns".
Yamato was pretty well-known and influential for sci-fi popculture even in the US. Gundam and Macross alike feature ships with the typical main deck and captain, which made it way stateside with Robotech and so on. Ditto for documentaries and name recognition. Yamato-class is definitely a step above Iowas unless you're a military nerd.

 

[Haig]

Would you like Lord Kitchener as a potential leader in Civ 7? Or Horatio Nelson?

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

The terminology for what Yamato was exactly is a matter of discussion since there were really no other ships like that class ; Iowa is generally considered by just about every reputable naval historian as a fast battleship.

(And Space Battleship Yamato wasn'T even called that in in English - it was Starblazers. Yamato's fame, to the extent it exists, is solely about how big it was ; not about what tv show it was in. The Iowas meanwhile are all preserved museum ships in the US (as are a number of the superficially similar South Dakotas and North Carolinas). This also means that there is far more reference material available for the appearance of the Iowa, South Dakotas and North Carolinas than for the Yamato, so it's likely much easier to use them to represent a late 1930s 3x3 turret layout battleship, than using Yamato. (Plus, using the Iowa-NC-SD for the generic battleship actually makes it possible to make Yamato a Japanesse UU, which would make much more sense than using the Yamato as the generic unit and the Iowa as the UU);

Back in 1977 or 1979 when Claster TV (Owned by Hasbro) licensed Space Battleship Yamato from Westcape (Yoshinobu Nishizaki's branch office in America), it was also the first time Americans learned the name of one of the biggest Mangaka legend 'Leiji Matsumoto'. originally with his name romanized in america as 'Reiji Matsumoto' even in 1972 he already use 'L' in his name in place of 'R'.

 

[AriochIV]

Black Adder. He is immortal, after all.

 

[gdr_willter]

I don't want to see the "Battleship" which is represented by the warship class that only-two built, nearly did nothing, and sinked in the one-sided air raids. (Don't say they're three, Sinano was not completed as a battleship)

Even Kongo or Nagato class will be way better choice than Yamato to describe "Battleship" in the Civ game.

 

[AriochIV]

For all the ships thus far there are at least two representations, one West and one East. So it's not an either-or case.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

For all the ships thus far there are at least two representations, one West and one East. So it's not an either-or case.

The British and French have also different designs, as well as Germans which had Bismarck.
I don't know why Iowas have TWO smokestacks while Yamato class has one (and slanted, rather than bended)

 

[Siptah]

Can you imagine if one more of them isn’t included at launch and we end up with only two European civilizations in the Modern Era, following the pattern of previous eras?

I still think Germany feels very out of place without a minimally coherent transition, especially if it turns out that the Normans also lead to America.

I also think that Germany lacks a good transition. But looking at many others that we have, Normans > Germany is not particularly odd. I'd give Britain/England the least chances of the trio Germany, Russia, Britain to be in the base game, simply because of the Normans and the White Tower being enough representation for the area. For some time, I thought Russia was the most likely, coming from Mongols. But I think with Mongols > Mughals/Qing, that path might have found its end. Also, a Mongols > Russia path would put Russia more into a civ counting for Asia than for Europe, and I think the 2 clear European civ pattern will continue (which also means that America isn't counted towards that pattern). This means that Spain or Normans would have to unlock Russia, which is ... far fetched? Germany is geographically and culturally much closer. Hence, my current bet is on Germany as the last base game civ.

 

[Wohlauf]

I also think that Germany lacks a good transition. But looking at many others that we have, Normans > Germany is not particularly odd. I'd give Britain/England the least chances of the trio Germany, Russia, Britain to be in the base game, simply because of the Normans and the White Tower being enough representation for the area. For some time, I thought Russia was the most likely, coming from Mongols. But I think with Mongols > Mughals/Qing, that path might have found its end. Also, a Mongols > Russia path would put Russia more into a civ counting for Asia than for Europe, and I think the 2 clear European civ pattern will continue (which also means that America isn't counted towards that pattern). This means that Spain or Normans would have to unlock Russia, which is ... far fetched? Germany is geographically and culturally much closer. Hence, my current bet is on Germany as the last base game civ.

After the soft confirmation towards Freddy the Great from the esrb rating, I am fully on board the Germany instead of Britain train.

 

[Xandinho]

I also think that Germany lacks a good transition. But looking at many others that we have, Normans > Germany is not particularly odd. I'd give Britain/England the least chances of the trio Germany, Russia, Britain to be in the base game, simply because of the Normans and the White Tower being enough representation for the area. For some time, I thought Russia was the most likely, coming from Mongols. But I think with Mongols > Mughals/Qing, that path might have found its end. Also, a Mongols > Russia path would put Russia more into a civ counting for Asia than for Europe, and I think the 2 clear European civ pattern will continue (which also means that America isn't counted towards that pattern). This means that Spain or Normans would have to unlock Russia, which is ... far fetched? Germany is geographically and culturally much closer. Hence, my current bet is on Germany as the last base game civ.

I got the point, Russia finishing the Central Asian path (Persia > Mongol > Russia) really makes sense. So, in this case, France and Germany would be the two Europeans.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I got the point, Russia finishing the Central Asian path (Persia > Mongol > Russia) really makes sense. So, in this case, France and Germany would be the two Europeans.

I think constant mentioning of London evolution implies there will be some kind of Britain. So, it's really interesting guesswork now.

 

[Siptah]

I think constant mentioning of London evolution implies there will be some kind of Britain. So, it's really interesting guesswork now.

How about a Britain IP with London as city
Or Old Fritz as a leader unlocking Britain and Russia. I’m very curious how he‘ll be portrayed: classic (old) or young? He has many things speaking for and against traits, e.g., a horrible diplomat with great diplomatic success, a horrible general (and deserter) with militaristic successes, a well educated but very shallow lover of art and philosophy.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

After the soft confirmation towards Freddy the Great from the esrb rating, I am fully on board the Germany instead of Britain train.

Also, Catherine the Great for Russia was also mentioned in that same esrb rating.

 

[stealth_nsk]

So, we have 11 civs:
African: Buganda (confirmed)
American: America (confirmed), Mexico (confirmed)
Asian: Meiji (confirmed), Mughal (confirmed), Qing (confirmed), Siam (spotted)
European: Britain, France, Germany, Russia

One of them is out and will probably join in "Right to Rule" collection.