Bs!!!!

[Kerphunk]

I entered war with Isabella and my forces were absolutely and totally useless. I used stronger units against her but they almost always lost. When i came to attack her cities my grenadiers were repelled easily by her riflemen. I sent over 10 grenadierts against 1 city and they lots everytime!! Yet when she came to attack one of MY cities, she walked right in after an easy victory!
WTH???!!!!!

That was ABSOLUTE NONSENSE. No matter what i threw at her she walked all over it. It was my grenadiers vs her's and they got their asses kicked. What a load of crap. What the hell happened? What the hell is wrong with this game that makes MY forces get kicked around the map by hers when they both are exactly the same?! Her cities NEVER suffer defeat, but she walks straight into mine that had a load of units stationed in them anyway?!! yeah, like THAT could happen!!!

 

[Wyz_sub10]

Feel better?

 

[svv]

When you are ordering your units to move into their city, before you click on the destination, you should be able to see a report of the effective attack and defense points. They will get bonuses for defending the city, and possibly because of their traits (city defense, etc). It should actually give you the percentage chance of a win in the first combat. What is it telling you?

Are you getting any bonuses? Do your troops have the city raider skill? Are you using troops that are effective against the troops she has defendng (the "attack vs" trait).

Are you attacking over a river? You might not have that problem if you shift your stack over one. Are your units damaged? Of course you should wait for them to heal before taking on undamaged defenders.

Have you softened up the city defenders with bombers, artillery, canon or catapults? Even Modern Armor would have a tough time going up against riflemen entrenched in a city without bombarding the defenses down first.

 

[bassist2119]

1.) Before any attack, check the attack odds (mouse over and hold alt (or is it shift?)
2.) When attacking cities, bombard the defenses to 0 first.
3.) Even after bombardment, victory against a city is much more likely after at least one cat sac.
4.) everything svv said (BTW, welcome to the forum, svv and Kerphunk!)

 

[Shillen]

Artillery is your friend.

 

[Kerphunk]

i had no idea about city raider traits. I thought i just make an army and send them over and if i have more units, stronger units, they win! But what can i bombard the city with early on? I only had catapults and they didnt do much if anything. And how come she was able to take over my cities so easily?

 

[HectorSpector]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=185453

 

[Kerphunk]

How come EVERY single time i attacked her units i lost? I would have grenadiers attack her riflemen and they would get their asses kicked easily. Even when i had stronger units, that have more attack points, that the game DICTATES are better units, i would lose. Why is that? This was on normal battles outside cities. It's absolute nonsense. What a blatant pile of crap that is. If my forces are wekaer then fine, of course they will lose. But how 2 or 3 grenadier units get wiped out by the same SINGLE spanish riflemen is a disgrace and ruins the point of the game. This isn't mickey mouse adventures, i want something that at least acknowledge there is something called 'reality'.

 

[HectorSpector]

 

[Kerphunk]

You have discovered posting pictures. Welcome to the internet.

 

[Moonsinger]

How come EVERY single time i attacked her units i lost? I would have grenadiers attack her riflemen and they would get their asses kicked easily. Even when i had stronger units, that have more attack points, that the game DICTATES are better units, i would lose. Why is that? This was on normal battles outside cities. It's absolute nonsense. What a blatant pile of crap that is. If my forces are wekaer then fine, of course they will lose. But how 2 or 3 grenadier units get wiped out by the same SINGLE spanish riflemen is a disgrace and ruins the point of the game. This isn't mickey mouse adventures, i want something that at least acknowledge there is something called 'reality'.

If you really are looking for an answer, post a save game. Of course, with proper combat tactic, riflemen is no match for grenadiers. Since grenadiers get 50% attacking bonus against rifleman.

 

[Kerphunk]

Thanks! yes good idea, i'll post a save game, you can better see what i mean.

 

[Phrederick]

i had no idea about city raider traits. I thought i just make an army and send them over and if i have more units, stronger units, they win! But what can i bombard the city with early on? I only had catapults and they didnt do much if anything. And how come she was able to take over my cities so easily?

No wonder you're not doing too well. This game requires thinking.

The base strength of units only matters so much. If you don't bombard cultural defenses, you'll almost always lose. If you don't use City Raider or Combat 1/Pinch promotions, or attack across a river, or attack a city on a hill without extra units, you won't do well.

Did you use the catapults to completely bombard defenses away? What about using a couple to soften up the defenses with collateral damage?

When defending, did your units have city garrison promotions? Did you have good cultural defense? Were they fortified for at least 5 turns, to give the +25% fortify bonus?

 

[manwiththehands]

You have discovered posting pictures. Welcome to the internet.

Don't sweat it. Most (>90%) of everyone over here plays 2 levels above where they are really able to play because they know how to exploit a certain leader's traits. Ask any of these bozos if they have ever won a cultural victory playing Monty.

 

[Moonsinger]

Ask any of these bozos if they have ever won a cultural victory playing Monty.

That's very rude and uncall for!!!! If you want to use short people in your basketball team, that's your call. There is no need to label anyone who doesn't do as you do as "bozo".

Life is full of exploits of people traits...for example, most basketball players are tall, most sumo westling people are fat, etc. Monty is one of those people who are not very good with cultural in comparing to Elizabeth, but when it comes to world domination, Elizabeth can't keep up. If you don't maximize the leader traits, it's your business. There is no need to be rude!

 

[ainwood]

There is no need to be rude!

Moderator Action: Exactly - thank-you Moonsinger.

At all - please keep this in mind.

 

[voek]

Feel better?

 

[Pogel]

Some basics of combat, just to be clear.

Each unit has a base strength, that can be modified by damage, promotions, the type of unit they are attacking (or being attacked by), defense bonuses from tiles, city defense bonuses (from accumulated culture and/or walls/castles, etc.) and attacking over rivers.

If you click and drag a unit (or stack of units) over an enemy it will show the combat rating and likelihood of victory for attacking that stack (including detailed info on bonuses). Note that the percentage chance is a probability - 95% doesn't mean that you will always win - you will still lose 1 in 20 of these fights, and you will notice it when it happens (see various threads about how the RNG cheats).

When a stack is attacked, the defender with the highest chance of victory will be chosen to defend. You don't have choice in this, so it's best to scout the enemy and keep good defensive counters to the units they build in your stack (e.g. spearmen for chariots), even when your main offense is a single unit type.

Combat on open ground is mostly about defending on hills and forests/jungles (ideally both) and forcing the enemy onto open ground. Also use rivers to you advantage.

Early on, attacking cities mostly comes down to superior numbers and appropriate promotions (City Raider axemen or swordsmen will do a decent job against archers - the AI mostly defends with archers). Make sure you don't attack over a river. Note the city defense bonuses (cuture or city walls bonuses will be shown as a % by the city). Note also whether the enemy your attacking has the protective trait (giving an automatic City Garrison & Drill promotion to archer/gunpowder units - Warlords only).

Always, make sure that you force all your attack on one turn. If you attack over a series of turns the enemy can use the XP from victoiries to promote the unit. The last thing you want is the defenders to get promotions as they can make them much harder to kill. Also, gaining a promotion heals a proportion of damage. Hit hard and in one turn. If you fail at the first turn you'll have to rely on gaining extra promotions yourself, and hoping the enemy hasn't added any units, to take the city on the second turn.

In an early city attack, plan for a 2:1 advantage (minimum) if there is low defense (<= 20 culture, no walls, no hills, no protective), and a 3:1 advantage if any of these are present. If you face multiple defensive bonuses then it's probably time to find a better target until you can counter that defense.

Later on, artillery (catapults, trebuchets, canon, artillery) units will be used. These have two uses. First, you will use city bombard to reduce the defensive bonus from walls or culture. Next, you will use the colaterall damage ability of these units. Colaterall damage is where the attacking unit will not only damage the defending unit, but also the other units in the stack. Several round of colaterall damage can make finishing off the enemy with your other units much easier.

 

[cabert]

so kerphunk, all needed advice is given here, though not in a very pleasant manner.
War is not just about throwing units at other units.
winning a battle isn't going to be the be-all end-all of the game.

Why don't you check some of the SG ? or sisiutil's ALC?
did you read sullla's walkthrough?
You'll see (with pictures all over the posts) that war is a serious matter in cIV.

First, attacking units anywhere is not the best tactical manoeuver.
Know about terrain defense?
Cities give bonus defense, so do hills, so do forests (all cumulative, though city and forest can't be both on a same tile).
So if your grenadier attacks a rifleman on a forested hill (75% defense), he'll almost certainly lose.
+ grenadiers have a +50% attack on rifleman, but the base strength of the rifleman is 14, while the base strength of the grenadier is only 12.
SO (without any promotion, another big mystery)
your grenadier attacking
is strength 12
while the defending rifleman is
14 +75% from terrain -50% grenadier attacking rifleman = 17,5
12 vs 17,5 is going nowhere...
On the other side, attacking the same rifleman on a plain would be
12 vs 9,33 : easy win, most of the time...

conclusion :
1) When you defend, use terrain defense = try to end your turns on good defensive terrain.
2) When you attack, use enough troops in the same turns, and in the right order = colateral damager first (catapults,canons, artilleries, barrage tanks, Bombers), then depending on relative strengths either the best attacker or units with retreating ability (mounted units with flanking promotions), then possibly the best attacker or a sacrificial unit.
If you attack cities, the city raider promotion is a big key. If you attack outside of cities, why don't you just wait until some campers come out of the woods?
And the most important point : the best defender is always selected (though it's arguable in many ways), you may think you attack the same unit over and over, but it's probably not true. You should not attack a stack you can not entirely kill (exception being a colateral damager to soften it up when defending), since defneding units will get promotions making them even harder to kill.