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BTS – A guide for higher difficulties for standard speed and maps (emperor+)

Discussion in 'Civ4 Strategy Articles' started by Snaaty, Oct 23, 2007.

  1. Norvin_Green

    Norvin_Green Chieftain

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    i tried this out and thought i was doing well as sitting bull. main problem was there was so much jungle which was where i needed to block. currently have 5 decent cities with space for 2 so-so ones. on a continent with phrederick & mansa but haven't made any trades (nobody has alpha yet). starting to get some production in 2 cities and cottage up the rest while teching lit to get the GL. somehow, someone just grabbed it. what would you do from here? i'm at work so i can't include a save. try and get COL to switch to caste to try and make-up the scientists? thanks for any help!
     
  2. CellKu

    CellKu Chieftain

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    Europe
    Snaaty, thanks a lot for your very interesting guide and comments. :goodjob:
    As timing seems so important, is it possible to give an estimate about when

    a.) barbs will spawn?
    b.) the AI will start the first wave of expansion? So up to when do I have time to block important spots?
    c.) the AI will start to build cities behind your frontline cities (if you have open borders)?
    d.) the GL will usually be built by the fastest AI civs?
    e.) liberalism will usually be researched by the most quickly teching AI civs?

    Is there anything else with regard to timing that should be kept in mind?

    Thanks a lot!
    CellKu
     
  3. Snaaty

    Snaaty Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Some more answers:

    @ ungy:

    I also have made the unpleasent experience that in BtS, Barbs try to sneak by my fortified units quite often... ...but I think now that it has to do something with the chances of winning, IF they pick the fight or NOT:

    In my experience, a barb archer will usually attack my hill fortiefied archer, a warrior will try to sneak by. Therefore I dont use static defenders any more, if an archer approaches stay fortified, if a warrior commes move to a nonhill forest tile (then they attack most times... ...and die), else just follow them with your archers and kill them once they reached your improvements (attacking on flat land without forest)

    ...

    @ MrFelony:

    Walls require construction and provide only 1.000 soldiers (I think) at that time you´re better off building another axe (3.000 soldiers I think)

    ...

    @ madscientist:

    What a heap bad luck... ...this is by the way the random event I hate most... ...axes, spears or even swords you can usually stop because the need some time to reach your cities, but harchers... ...bah... ...I can only second MrFelony opinion there

    ...

    @ lilnev:

    I even switch to caste if I cant generate the GS fast enough under slavery:lol:... ...your strat is slower first, but later, when I´m having huge trouble getting a GE for exemple, yours will be better

    ...

    @ Norvin_Green:

    There was one open game here (deity with holland I think), where I did the same.

    Stuffing the first 3 cities into the jungle to get some more land... ...but I changed the researchpath there to ...bronze, IRON, writing...

    Don´t worry too much about the GL, if Aest wouldnt be so good for trading, I would skipp the GL myself. Simply run Caste & Pacifism for some turns and have the city with the most food run 5-7 scientists and you will get heaps of them

    ...

    @ CellKu:

    Depends on level, I only know for deity (or better more or less know:crazyeye:), so no guarantee here:

    a) 3500 BC but they will enter your territory only around 2500 BC
    b) No time at all close to enemy capital (=you will never make it) and up to around 1500 BC elsewhere
    c) only after they have run out of land (around 500 BC - 1 AD normally) But simply close borders if you see a settler near your blocking cities
    d) Bad luck: around 400 BC, luck around 100 BC)
    e) Bad luck around 500 AD, luck around 1300 AD)
     
  4. pawelo

    pawelo Chieftain

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    Québec, QC
    Snaaty,

    Thanks for this great piece of read. This tutorial is plainly brilliant.
    One question, maybe I have missed something:
    At one point you mention Pacal "Having too much on his hands". I am sorry if it sounds stupid, but how did you found out this ? Is there an attitude change or a dialog change making you detect this one ?
     
  5. CellKu

    CellKu Chieftain

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    Europe
    Thanks so much! That really helps a lot!
    CellKu
     
  6. ds61514

    ds61514 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
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    Diplo screen and look at who you can bribe to attack. If it's red and the reason is "we have enough on our hands," chances are he's picked a target (hopefully not you)
     
  7. MrFelony

    MrFelony Chieftain

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    Chicago
    walls actually require masonry, not construction, and with stone (which is when i think they're actually viable to build), i think its usually worth it to build them in your cities, at least the one's bordering the AI that threatens you the most. unlike an axe, walls will slow down your opponents attack by around 3-4 turns per city since they'r obsessed with bombarding

    of course, if you manage your diplo right, i guess you dont really need walls ;)
     
  8. Giaur

    Giaur War Dancer

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    Inbetween Shangri-La and Valhalla
    Spoiler :

    This was immortal difficulty and I was very proud of my blocking, but in fact I never met before, that AI's feared of our borders. Never. Not even once.
    Spoiler :





     

    Attached Files:

  9. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    Well I tried this again over the weekend and did pretty well although not a win. Got liberalsim arround 500 AD, still working out some bugs. I get the GS in plenty of time (Playing Suliman) but techs like metal casting, calender, compass keep popping up first so I have to self tech a bit first. I am playing with a bunch of jerks (Shaka/Khmer/Charles/Kublai with Sitting Bull the only decent trading partner). Won the rifle beeline and pushed Shaka off my continent, but Sitting Bull is ahead of me in tech and I am losing vital resources due to cultural pressure (I lost my only source of horses). Finally Shaka and Khmer declared war and it was really impossible to fight them off without losing even more ground in tech. I was able to get to liberalsim first and by agressively building settlers I was able to block off Sitting Bull nicely although the cultural pressure eventually beat me down (Sitting Bull built the oracle and got Fuedalsim for free, no way I was able to take hime down).

    Onto my current game, Ghandi and Roosevelt as distant neighbors and we are in a Hindu love fest, alot easier to play this strat out with one exception (I did overcome this already). Still playing as Suliman (starts with Agriculture and Wheel) I got a landlocked start with basically one cow tile, one Elephant, one gold and the rest forrested grasslands, plains, hills. Not bad once they are chopped but not enough grasslands to support a large number of farms (or large enough to go past 2 scientists). I got the GL and NW chopped out and cruising along, but I could never get to the happy limit for the capital before I started on a settler and workers. I built two settlers and took 2 barbarian cities for 5 total cities. Economy is fine and GS's coming along so it worked out nicely.

    So a question to Snaaty, how do you play with that type of capital location? Lot's of happiness, forrests aplenty, lot's of production but very limited on food?
     
  10. Norvin_Green

    Norvin_Green Chieftain

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    thanks for the help. though i failed miserably. my timing seems to be off on when to do what. i think as straight-forward as the plan seems it will take some getting used to in order to pull it off. i tried again and had a great start going as qin, blocked off tokugawa (to my west) nicely and went exploring through some nice green jungle to my south (images of oodles of cottages danced in my head!) only to emerge from the jungle and see . . . coast. arghhhh, nobody to trade with and my economy is barely holding together. anyway, i do like this strategy because after awhile axe-rushing gets old. thanks again for sharing your plan!
     
  11. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    I agree although I id try another game where I was able to axe-rsu my nearest neighbor and bascially still follow the guide. I ran into a wall as Boudica was going nuts and I could not get peace with her although my Jainessaries fought valiently. SO an early axe-rush is still possible with this strat.
     
  12. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    Welll I have tried this strat numerous times and I like it very much, but I found some adjustments in my games. Most games have been emperor or monarch, I am not brave enough to tackle Immortal or Diety yet.

    1) Getting early archery is great. I am glad to see someone actually excourage it. I will rarely avoid it unless I can quickly get copper or horses early.

    2) Pumping settlers and workers from the capital after reaching the happiness cap for 4 cities and blocking teh AI is something I just never did or appreciated. This has been the biggest thing I learned from the thread, thanks>

    3) For my style of play I have been going after the pyramids, especially if stone is arround. Early representation is very powerful with this technique. I still go after Asthetics/Literature before alphabet and I have found I still have time to build the pyramids before I get to the GL. The kicker is I may occasionally get a GE rather than a GS.

    4) Free Tech: To be honest I am not that fond of nationalism and prefer printing press. I despise drafting, and PP is still on the way to rifling.

    5) Speaking of which I have found it difficult to beeline rifling as well as Snaaty does. I seam to always get bogged down. Now I am playing as Suliman so the Jainessaries are powerful enough so this may be just unique to my chosen leader. I will go after rifling before something like constitution or Scientific method, but I go after the fill in techs if I cannot get them in a trade.

    6) Bulbing techs. If I can get the pyramids, I thinks ettling the GS's in the capital works better. With a good science economy I found it a waste to be bulbing paper and even education (Philosphy I do bulb). With the settled scientists, plus much earlier university than the AI and and academy, the capital can produce ALOT of science, long after Liberalism has been teched.

    That's some of my ideas.
     
  13. Gr8scott

    Gr8scott Chieftain

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    I have been playing around a bit with this strategy and it is very nice.

    Two important parts of this strategy are archers for early defense and aesthetics for early tech trade bait.

    An alternative to this that can work under the right conditions (e.g. industrial or stone close) is:
    -use the archer hammers to build the great wall (tech masonry after bronze and ignore archery)
    -use the great spy from the GW to augment technology, but still tech to aesthetics.

    Essentially it is an alternative way to implement a similar strategy.
    On the plus side, this strategy is very strong against barbs and gives you access to the early techs earlier (by stealing for the ones you can't get in trade for aesthetics).
    On the down side, you get a great spy before a great scientist and this might put the lib race at some risk.

    Nice strat to play around with. Thanks snaaty.

    GS
     
  14. Atlas

    Atlas Titanus

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  15. Kelvenor

    Kelvenor Chieftain

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    Can someone awser this or better yet Snaaty
    Is the AI more favarable to trade you a Tech if you have already put some beakers into it?
     
  16. shyuhe

    shyuhe Chieftain

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    Yes. The AI values research trades depending on how many beakers the player has left to research. So researching a few turns into a 1000 beaker tech so that there's only 750 left will make the AI consider that tech a 750 beaker tech instead of the full value of 1000. I hope that makes sense.
     
  17. oyzar

    oyzar Have quit civ/forums

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    It is more like whipping & rushbuying.. The value per beaker will also go up which means that you would get it way cheaper with only a few beakers invested into a tech.
     
  18. xanadux

    xanadux Chieftain

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    I tried a game last night on Immortal (I usually play emperor), mostly following the plan. I did well until I sent 10 chariots to take out a barb city with 20% culture and lost 6, and about 5 turns later, with my loss of power from losing 6 units, Gilligan attacked with 3 vultures, 3 swords, and a couple chariots, with me only having 1 archer and 1 chariot in my capitol. It is really important on the highest levels to keep your power high to prevent the AI from attacking.
     
  19. athelious

    athelious Chieftain

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    As I move up in difficulty, I find myself looking to specialize a production city with hills and a river as my second or third city. This city then produces units most of the game. I used to wait until later --> MC/CoL for the workshops/caste and find a grassy spot with a river to make my first production city.

    This also gives me the flexibility for an early rush if I am cornered.
     
  20. Snaaty

    Snaaty Chieftain

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    @ Kelvenor:

    Like shyuhe and oyzar already said

    ...

    @ xanadux:

    When you play your politics right and your neighbours like you, you only get attacked when your power is way too low (lower then 50% of the strongest known AI). But it seems, that once one of your neighbours has "too much on his hands" and you fear it is you he´s gonna attack because he´s an opportunist (not declaring because he dislikes you), you can prevent getting attacked by building up your army ASAP and rising in strenght. The " too much on his hands" will go away then
     

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