The Capo
godless Heathen
DELETED, sorry I was totally wasted. last night.
[BtS] DIPLOMACY: a mod for Diplogames!
- Thread starter The Capo
- Start date
cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
No offense intended of course, and I'm glad we can discussed this on civilised terms. 
I'll reiterate myself. Although I think Washington was a pretty good general (I mean you got to have SOME kind of ability at the least to take on Britain like that), I think Americans sometimes do turn him into some semi-divine godlike figure, that he was like some kind of superhero defending America against the Nazi-like Brits. He wasn't a Genghis Khan or Alexander the Great, but I can't say he was just so-so either. Likewise, I think it's important to consider the contributions of the other Founding Fathers and leaders within the American Revolution, too, as Washington couldn't do it without them. So, in a simple sentence: he's great, but some people take him too far in my opinion.
But giving up all that nice power after the revolution, that is admirable, I have to admit.
I'll reiterate myself. Although I think Washington was a pretty good general (I mean you got to have SOME kind of ability at the least to take on Britain like that), I think Americans sometimes do turn him into some semi-divine godlike figure, that he was like some kind of superhero defending America against the Nazi-like Brits. He wasn't a Genghis Khan or Alexander the Great, but I can't say he was just so-so either. Likewise, I think it's important to consider the contributions of the other Founding Fathers and leaders within the American Revolution, too, as Washington couldn't do it without them. So, in a simple sentence: he's great, but some people take him too far in my opinion.
But giving up all that nice power after the revolution, that is admirable, I have to admit.
MadmanOfALeader
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2008
- Messages
- 2,487
Cybrxkhan, you're saying that as if the Turks didn't deify Atatürk as well!
BTW, You sounded a lot like a tea party animal saying that, Capo.
BTW, You sounded a lot like a tea party animal saying that, Capo.
cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
I didn't necessarily say that the Turks aren't overrating or underrating Ataturk per se, I'm just talking about Washington independently of Ataturk. Either way, we can say that any "Founding Father" of a nation is oftentimes exaggerated in ability in some way or another... Except Genghis Khan, because he really did conquer half the known world, although the Mongolians tend to view him a lot more favorably than most peoples. 
Alright, this is getting a little off topic, so I'll just say that there are way too many great leaders out there, it's kind of unfair to overrate or underrate all of them, end of story.
Oh, by the way, The Capo, I just noticed you changed your avatar picture thingy or whatever.
Alright, this is getting a little off topic, so I'll just say that there are way too many great leaders out there, it's kind of unfair to overrate or underrate all of them, end of story.
Oh, by the way, The Capo, I just noticed you changed your avatar picture thingy or whatever.
The Capo
godless Heathen
Well I do have a soft-spot in my heart for George Washington. He has been deifiied in certain ways, as many "fathers of their nation" do. I am mostly impressed with the things Washington did that he isn't really deified for. First of all he was the leading producer of Rum in the western hemisphere in his day, but mostly it is because he was very good at keeping his American troops together in really tough times, especially when most armies would have disintegrated, granted he did get a lot of help from Europe when it comes to drilling them, but he was able to keep an otherwise segmented band of soldiers (and an extremely underfunded and segmented effort for that matter) unified despite Congress' constant bickering and disagreement that probably would have led to the end of the revolution. Of course he had his faults, he was probably not the best General the Americans had, but his Presidency did do a lot for the future of this country. He was the right man for the job at the time and was relatively non-partisan which was needed at the time.
Of course this could be said for a lot of leaders, but Washington is one of my favorite American people. So yeah... anyway sorry for my drunken tirade and let's get back to the business at hand.
EDIT: I don't think Benjamin Franklin actually said that.
Of course this could be said for a lot of leaders, but Washington is one of my favorite American people. So yeah... anyway sorry for my drunken tirade and let's get back to the business at hand.
EDIT: I don't think Benjamin Franklin actually said that.
cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
I can accept that.
(Also for some reason I didn't think you sounded wasted... oh well, disregarding that...)
I thought edgecrusher might be interested in this, even though he may have seen it before:
http://www.asjotools.com/misc/CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.htm
Also, I'll have more personalities up tonight.
(Also for some reason I didn't think you sounded wasted... oh well, disregarding that...)
I thought edgecrusher might be interested in this, even though he may have seen it before:
http://www.asjotools.com/misc/CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.htm
Also, I'll have more personalities up tonight.
The Capo
godless Heathen
Yeah, I was totally messed up man. I ran into an old co-worker of mine and we slammed Irish Whiskey all night, so I was way drunk.
Anyway, so far Ripple is reporting that BUG seems to be successfully merged into the mod but he is making sure all of the stuff from NextWar still works. After he gets back to me with the final product I'll update all of the new personalities that cybrxkhan gives me and have the next playtest out.
I also wanted to ask cybrxkhan, if you wouldn't terribly mind being the "sound guy" for the final version and by that I mean would you mind picking and adding a bunch of new music to the mod? If you don't have time that's fine, but I think you'd be the best man for the job.
Anyway, so far Ripple is reporting that BUG seems to be successfully merged into the mod but he is making sure all of the stuff from NextWar still works. After he gets back to me with the final product I'll update all of the new personalities that cybrxkhan gives me and have the next playtest out.
I also wanted to ask cybrxkhan, if you wouldn't terribly mind being the "sound guy" for the final version and by that I mean would you mind picking and adding a bunch of new music to the mod? If you don't have time that's fine, but I think you'd be the best man for the job.
cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
^Er, I'm not reading you here... Please specify and explain what "picking and adding a bunch of new music to the mod" means.
Edgecrusher
King
I can accept that.
(Also for some reason I didn't think you sounded wasted... oh well, disregarding that...)
I thought edgecrusher might be interested in this, even though he may have seen it before:
http://www.asjotools.com/misc/CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.htm
Also, I'll have more personalities up tonight.
I am going to have to upload "the file" for you CK. Its a Excel File, that has all the values, with some built in filters so you can see who compares to who, and in what. Its been somewhat helpful.
cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
^Actually that would be nice. And useful, now that I'm starting to know what values does what, that I can fine-tune these LHs.
Anyhow, here are some more LH personalities.
First off, Halie Selassie. I based him off Gandhi. No, I don't think Halie Selassie was a pacifist per se, but he was an internationalist and he did try to get his country off foreign yoke. To, er, "smooth out" Gandhi's more pacifist tendencies, so to speak, I added aspects of Sitting Bull (the resistance to foreign rule, that kind of thing) and Lincoln (also tried to keep country together in desperate times).
Second is Ramkhamhaeng/Mongkut/Thai-leader. I know you didn't specifically list one in that list, but I know you made some Thai LHs, so I thought why not (I also wanted to get this one over for WoL, so
). Anyhow, I did this specifically for Ramkhamhaeng, but I think his personality could work for Mongkut as well. Anyhow, I first used Cyrus as a base (Ram and Cyrus were both founders of nations, and they were somewhat progressive if I remember). I then added aspects of Charlemagne (besides also being a "founder" of a political entity, he introduced Christianity to a lot of places, just like how Ram introduced Thailand to Buddhism wholly as a state religion or something like that), and Washington (founder syndrome, something like that).
Third is Vercingetorix. I first based him off Sitting Bull (Sitting Bull vs. America, Vercingetorix vs. Rome, you get the idea). I then added aspects of Mao (you may be thinking "WTH! Mao's a Commie!" or "Wasn't Mao more of a political ideology dude", but I was thinking more along the lines of Mao's guerilla warfare, rather than his ideology, so I hope that justifies some of it; I also wanted to have more interesting combinations of leaders, even if they are slightly less "correct" per se, for more interestingness) as well as Shaka (fighting and war thingy).
Hope that works.
Anyhow, The Capo, before I produce my next one, I think I'm going to take a shot at Reagan. However, because Reagan is so recent compared to a lot of these other leaders, I'm not sure exactly what to do with him (this is also a reason why I don't want to add anybody who died after c.1975 into my mod or to the vanilla game, as I feel like they're too recent to make a decent judgement without getting wrapped up in politics or whatever). Should I make him a savior and righteous anti-commie leader, as conservatives would have it, or should I make him some slimy guy as some liberals have it?
So I'd like to hear what you think the guy's personality should be like, since I'm not really sure what to do with him.
Anyhow, here are some more LH personalities.
First off, Halie Selassie. I based him off Gandhi. No, I don't think Halie Selassie was a pacifist per se, but he was an internationalist and he did try to get his country off foreign yoke. To, er, "smooth out" Gandhi's more pacifist tendencies, so to speak, I added aspects of Sitting Bull (the resistance to foreign rule, that kind of thing) and Lincoln (also tried to keep country together in desperate times).
Second is Ramkhamhaeng/Mongkut/Thai-leader. I know you didn't specifically list one in that list, but I know you made some Thai LHs, so I thought why not (I also wanted to get this one over for WoL, so
). Anyhow, I did this specifically for Ramkhamhaeng, but I think his personality could work for Mongkut as well. Anyhow, I first used Cyrus as a base (Ram and Cyrus were both founders of nations, and they were somewhat progressive if I remember). I then added aspects of Charlemagne (besides also being a "founder" of a political entity, he introduced Christianity to a lot of places, just like how Ram introduced Thailand to Buddhism wholly as a state religion or something like that), and Washington (founder syndrome, something like that).Third is Vercingetorix. I first based him off Sitting Bull (Sitting Bull vs. America, Vercingetorix vs. Rome, you get the idea). I then added aspects of Mao (you may be thinking "WTH! Mao's a Commie!" or "Wasn't Mao more of a political ideology dude", but I was thinking more along the lines of Mao's guerilla warfare, rather than his ideology, so I hope that justifies some of it; I also wanted to have more interesting combinations of leaders, even if they are slightly less "correct" per se, for more interestingness) as well as Shaka (fighting and war thingy).
Hope that works.
Anyhow, The Capo, before I produce my next one, I think I'm going to take a shot at Reagan. However, because Reagan is so recent compared to a lot of these other leaders, I'm not sure exactly what to do with him (this is also a reason why I don't want to add anybody who died after c.1975 into my mod or to the vanilla game, as I feel like they're too recent to make a decent judgement without getting wrapped up in politics or whatever). Should I make him a savior and righteous anti-commie leader, as conservatives would have it, or should I make him some slimy guy as some liberals have it?
So I'd like to hear what you think the guy's personality should be like, since I'm not really sure what to do with him.
Edgecrusher
King
This is what I use for Reagen. I tried to make him more focused on trade (Reagen-omics). Aggressive-wise, I tried to balance him in the middle. I didn't see him as a pacifist, nor an aggressor.
A few things that I think may need tweeking, are
1) Lower the WarmongerRespect value. This will cause him to dislike aggressive civs. Seeing as Reagen represents modern America, one could argue that America seems to take that stance when it suits their political interests.
2) Adjust some of the contact values. to adjust frequency of requests.
3) Lower his WarRand (300 might be a bit high) remember with this lower = more likely to attack
Spoiler :
The Capo
godless Heathen
Second is Ramkhamhaeng/Mongkut/Thai-leader. I know you didn't specifically list one in that list, but I know you made some Thai LHs, so I thought why not (I also wanted to get this one over for WoL, so
Only problem there is I have both Ramkhamhaeng and Mongkut as leaders in my Siam module.
Thanks for the others, although I think I already have a personality for Vercingetorix by EC, and it seems to be pretty good so far. I can give yours a shot too though.
And I wanted to mention that Ripple seems to be finished with the BUG merge, unfortunately he sent me a broken link to it, so I'll have to wait for him to give me a new one.
EDIT: By "picking and adding a bunch of new music to the mod," what I meant was since you are the music guru of Civ IV right now it might be a good idea if you chose some new diplomacy music for the new leaders (and add them to the mod for me). But if you don't want to do that, it's fine.
cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
^Add them to the mod I probably can't (we're all busy in one way or another, I suppose), but finding new music for you wouldn't be a problem if you need it. If there's diplomacy music for specific leaders or civilizations you need, feel free to specify them in my diplomacy music thread.
The Capo
godless Heathen
Well, that's unnecessary. I figured since you got all the music yourself you'd be more acquainted with it and could probably find it easier to add it to the mod (since I assume you have done so for all the music at least at some point). But if you don't have time, then you don't have time.
cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
Alright, I think I kind of lost you here... 
If I understand you correctly, then I will say that a lot of this music I haven't "added" into any xml files, since a good number of it I don't use anyways.
Anyhow, I guess I can use the Leader list you provided here as a reference for other diplomusic packs.
If I understand you correctly, then I will say that a lot of this music I haven't "added" into any xml files, since a good number of it I don't use anyways.
Anyhow, I guess I can use the Leader list you provided here as a reference for other diplomusic packs.
The Capo
godless Heathen
Yeah, I think you did. I was basically asking you to add new music to my mod. To "manually" add it to my mod. To write the XML and put the files in folders. That is what I was asking.
cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
Okay, yeah, I don't think I'll be able to do that. I remember when I was/am the music man for CivGold, in the days before we went modular. @#$%, it took me half an hour just to do 3-5 leaders, load into the mod, see if it works, then find out I mistyped something.
Yeah, I guess you're on your own for that. But feel free to make specific requests for diplomusic anytime, I'm more than happy to provide that.
Yeah, I guess you're on your own for that. But feel free to make specific requests for diplomusic anytime, I'm more than happy to provide that.
The Capo
godless Heathen
I figured as much. Still waiting on Ripple to send me the merge files. I suppose I could update Kamehameha in the meantime, I just have to edit his nose and shader him after all.
cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
Plus, I'm already doing all these wonderful new (technically semi-new/messy-squashed) personalities for you, haven't I already done enough? 
Anyhow, speaking of personalities, here's more for you.
First off is Itzcoatl. I based him off Stalin. Why such an unusual base? Well, one thing that caught me when I read the wikipedia article on him was the fact that he apparently did a kind of Aztec-styled propaganda campaign, by "reinventing" the Aztec history. This, I thought, echoed way too much to Stalin's brainwashing and propaganda. And the Aztec terror-machine thingy wasn't' too disimilar, in a way, to Stalin's off-the-rocker behavior at times. Anyhow, I also combined aspects of Gilgamesh (... eh, I just thought that he fit) and Ramses (also a "great" military man (actually he was a bit not too good, but his monuments never say that, of course), builder, and, may I note, probably one of Ancient Egypt's best examples of building gigantic moments as an ancient form of propaganda).
Second is Lalibela. I based him off Ashoka (solidifying Christianity around Ethiopia like how Ashoka strengthened Buddhism), and added aspects of Charlemagne (similar reason), as well as Suryvarman (builder).
Third is Smoke Jaguar. Since there was barely anything on the internet for him, I sort of used my imagination with this one (I also made him generic enough for a Maya leader, since I'm thinking of adding one into WoL later on). I based him off Ramses (builder of monuments, military person, etc.). I then added aspects of Suryvarman (builder), as well as Gilgamesh (military).
Anyhow, speaking of personalities, here's more for you.
First off is Itzcoatl. I based him off Stalin. Why such an unusual base? Well, one thing that caught me when I read the wikipedia article on him was the fact that he apparently did a kind of Aztec-styled propaganda campaign, by "reinventing" the Aztec history. This, I thought, echoed way too much to Stalin's brainwashing and propaganda. And the Aztec terror-machine thingy wasn't' too disimilar, in a way, to Stalin's off-the-rocker behavior at times. Anyhow, I also combined aspects of Gilgamesh (... eh, I just thought that he fit) and Ramses (also a "great" military man (actually he was a bit not too good, but his monuments never say that, of course), builder, and, may I note, probably one of Ancient Egypt's best examples of building gigantic moments as an ancient form of propaganda).
Second is Lalibela. I based him off Ashoka (solidifying Christianity around Ethiopia like how Ashoka strengthened Buddhism), and added aspects of Charlemagne (similar reason), as well as Suryvarman (builder).
Third is Smoke Jaguar. Since there was barely anything on the internet for him, I sort of used my imagination with this one (I also made him generic enough for a Maya leader, since I'm thinking of adding one into WoL later on). I based him off Ramses (builder of monuments, military person, etc.). I then added aspects of Suryvarman (builder), as well as Gilgamesh (military).
