[BtS] DIPLOMACY: a mod for Diplogames!

[The Almighty dF]

Well, right now, we got an European civ, a Middle Eastern Civ, an American civ, and a Pacific Civ.

Let's think of Asian civs. Tibet is a good choice. But we'd need a Dalai Lama LH.

Another choice would be the Chola or Tamil Civ, with Rajendra Chola as leader.

Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan have also been proposed.

Now for Africa... There are actually big empires you could choose. The Ashanti (led by Osei Tutu, and if you want to expand it to modern day, Kwame Nkhrumah or Kofi Annan-would make the diplomatic victory make sense!), the Swahili (led by Barghash) and the Mutapa (led by Mutota and perhaps Robert Mugabe).

And of course, there's always South Africa. Let's face it, with Mandela where he is, we got a Xhosa hanging out with the Zulus. And Zulus don't like Xhosas. So it would be a good choice to pair him up with Paul Kruger and make SA.

Seconding Tibet. Dalai Lama LH would be extremely easy to make if it doesn't exist.

I'd love to see Libya in-game... but if I had to pick a different civ to suggest... hmm...
I'd suggest Lao but that region is already covered very well.
Bah. It's hard to think up some suggestions for African civs. We've pretty much covered everyone that matters.
Sudan maybe?
Or Kenya.

 

[MadmanOfALeader]

I think Gaddafi would go to the all-inclusive Arabic civ.

 

[The Capo]

I think Gaddafi would go to the all-inclusive Arabic civ.

I was planning on making Nasser the fourth leader for the Arabs.

 

[MadmanOfALeader]

Yeah, Nasser is more relevant.

Was Ben-Gurion PM when Nasser was President?

 

[RPG]

I'd also like to see Tibet & Kazakhstan in the game.

 

[MadmanOfALeader]

I'd rather see Uzbekistan than Kazakhstan. This was Tamerlane's empire.

 

[The Almighty dF]

Just a list of nations I was thinking about which could be added, as well as pros/cons.

Kazahkstan
Pros: Quite possibly the most technologically advanced (former) Soviet Republic, and still holds the oldest functioning space shuttle launch pad. It'd also give me an excuse to roleplay as Borat.
Cons: Fairly lacking in history that is separate from Russia.

Uzbekistan
Pros: Controlled three of the leading cities along the silk road.
Cons: Fairly lacking in history that is separate from Russia.

Libya:
Pros: Gaddafi is the Middle East's answer to Fidel Castro.
Cons: Libya as we know it has existed since 1969, making it fairly recent. Before that... it's history was fairly unremarkable. Just a really, really hard place for empires to maintain.

Madagascar
Pros: Great trade nation.
Cons: That's pretty much all they were good at.

Kenya
Pros: -The- African nation. Whenever a movie, TV show, or cartoon is just showing generic Africa, it's Kenya. ...And sometimes it has tigers, which are not African at all.
Cons: Well. They've got... great tourism. And their pre-colonial history is interesting. ...Besides that, it's really not that interesting I guess. At least it isn't Zimbabwe.

Indonesia
Pros: In the top 20 economies, and in the top 5 most populated nations.
Cons: I guess the Dutch already represent a major part of their history. They didn't gain independence till... off the top of my head... 1944? Late WW2.

Singapore:
Pros: ...Alright, I actually can't think of any.
Cons: They're known for two things: 1. Canings. 2. Banning everything. We'd have a Canesmen UU and a Black Market UB. No offense to any Singaporians reading this.

New Zealand:
Pros: In my opinion, a beautiful and interesting nation. And it'd be fun to conquer the world with the modern world's first female answer to Hitler: Helen of Helengrad.
Cons: NZers will probably agree, I might have lied on the "interesting" part. I think you're already playing as NZ whenever you get an isolated start surrounded by sheep.

Hong Kong
Pros: Trade center of the far-east.
Cons: Arguably a nation.

Taiwan
Pros: It's China if the Chinese republic never got ruined by a tiny man with a cancerous mole.
Cons: See Pros.

Morocco
Pros: Neat history, especially for those who have an interest in nations fighting against colonization. Nice trade hub, fairly unique nation. Who -doesn't- want to look at their cities and notice one is named Casablanca? They also manage to stay in the news constantly, or have at least managed to for the past 14-15 years.
Cons: None. Unless you hate Casablanca.

United Arab Emirates
Pros: Amazing economy for the region, great military, very interesting history.
Cons: Probably already covered by the Arabic Empire.

Pakistan
Pros: It'd be neat to have them and India in a game, they're a nuclear power, and they've been a major piece of headline news for decades.
Cons: Possibly already covered by the Arabic Empire.

Sorry if anything I've said was offensive or incorrect, feel free to add in some pros/cons or corrections as you see fit.
I just woke up, so there's a good chance I confused the two Stans.

 

[MadmanOfALeader]

Pakistan would not be covered by the Arabic Empire, but by the Indian Empire. Think of it as a remnant of Mughal India.

But you mentioning Libya and Morocco makes me remember... the Berbers could be a good civ! The leaders could be Massinissa (Ptolemy's LH was used for him) and Al-Kahina.

Don't be bad-talking Zimbabwe! It was once a huge empire. Likewise, Uzbekistan would be more of a Timurid civ than the modern nation.

 

[MadmanOfALeader]

Speaking of new civs, I wrote some diplotext for Pinochet a while ago. This one is mostly based on things he said.

First Contact:
Hello, my name is [OUR_NAME]. People have called me an evil dictator but I believe they only say that because I have a sour face. You don't believe them, right?

Refuse to Talk:
I can tell you're about to lie to me by looking at your eyes. Don't bother trying to talk to me.

No Peace:
Why would I forgive the one who tried to kill us and destroy the [OUR_CIV_ADJ] Fatherland?

Friendly Greeting:
Hello, [CT_NAME]. How about we exterminate some communists? I'll give you my biggest rifle!

Annoyed Greeting:
How are you doing, marxist pig?

Demand Tribute Weaker:
I don't usually approve of redistribution of wealth, but it's for the good of the economy, no?

Demand Tribute Equal:
Hand it over, [CT_NAME], or I'll haul your corpse far away from [CT_CIV_SHORT] and dump it into the ocean!

Demand Tribute Stronger:
I've practically wiped [OUR_CIV_SHORT] clean of marxists. I can wipe [CT_CIV_SHORT] clean of [CT_CIV_ADJ] people if you don't pay me.

Speaking of South American nations; I think the Chilean and Argentine units should be made whiter. They could still wear native clothes, but the thing is that Chileans and Argentines are mostly descended from Europeans. There was virtually no breeding between the races, so they should look Caucasian.

 

[The Almighty dF]

Pakistan would not be covered by the Arabic Empire, but by the Indian Empire. Think of it as a remnant of Mughal India.

But you mentioning Libya and Morocco makes me remember... the Berbers could be a good civ! The leaders could be Massinissa (Ptolemy's LH was used for him) and Al-Kahina.

Don't be bad-talking Zimbabwe! It was once a huge empire. Likewise, Uzbekistan would be more of a Timurid civ than the modern nation.

Timurid Empire would be great. They'd need a huge culture boosting monument for a UB. UU, I'm not sure.

 

[IgorS]

Yeah, Nasser is more relevant.

Was Ben-Gurion PM when Nasser was President?

Yes, of course!

Nasser- 1956-1970
Ben-Gurion- 1948-1953 and 1955-1963

 

[MadmanOfALeader]

Then that's a perfect reason to have Nasser! Red Sea Rumble, anyone?

 

[IgorS]

Kazahkstan
Pros: Quite possibly the most technologically advanced (former) Soviet Republic, and still holds the oldest functioning space shuttle launch pad. It'd also give me an excuse to roleplay as Borat.
Cons: Fairly lacking in history that is separate from Russia.

Uzbekistan
Pros: Controlled three of the leading cities along the silk road.
Cons: Fairly lacking in history that is separate from Russia.

It is sad to see that Borat became the representative of Kazakhstan despite the fact he represents what Kazakhstan is NOT.
Anyway, I'll be glad to make Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan once someone supplies me with Ablay Khan and Tamerlane. I already have city lists and I am trying to think of a UU and UB for both. Meanwhile I thought of the Batyr as Kazakhstan's UU (replaces Maceman or Knight) and the Choikhana as Uzbekistan's UB (replaces Grocer). I want to make Uzbekistan as Uzbekistan, not as a Timurid empire, since we already have Persia in the game and it'll be more or less the same. I prefer to make an Uzbek civ with Tashkent, Bukhara, Samarqand, Kokand, Navoi, Khiva... There is so much history there, so you don't even need to get out of Uzbekistan's borders. I agree, though, with the claim that the Uzbeks and Kazakhs aren't really important civs and you can't compare them to the Firaxis civs, but, hey, if we already have a Puerto Rican, Haitian and other smaller civs I see no reason why we should ignore central Asia. Especially that each civ has it's own unique culture, and Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan certainly don't lack culture.
Another question is: should they go into "Diplomacy"? I'm not sure here, that's why I don't request them, but rather wait for the LHs, so I can do them myself and upload them here the way I see them.

 

[IgorS]

Then that's a perfect reason to have Nasser! Red Sea Rumble, anyone?

The "Red Sea Rumble" was actually the "Kadesh Operation".

 

[The Almighty dF]

It is sad to see that Borat became the representative of Kazakhstan despite the fact he represents what Kazakhstan is NOT.
Anyway, I'll be glad to make Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan once someone supplies me with Ablay Khan and Tamerlane. I already have city lists and I am trying to think of a UU and UB for both. Meanwhile I thought of the Batyr as Kazakhstan's UU (replaces Maceman or Knight) and the Choikhana as Uzbekistan's UB (replaces Grocer). I want to make Uzbekistan as Uzbekistan, not as a Timurid empire, since we already have Persia in the game and it'll be more or less the same. I prefer to make an Uzbek civ with Tashkent, Bukhara, Samarqand, Kokand, Navoi, Khiva... There is so much history there, so you don't even need to get out of Uzbekistan's borders. I agree, though, with the claim that the Uzbeks and Kazakhs aren't really important civs and you can't compare them to the Firaxis civs, but, hey, if we already have a Puerto Rican, Haitian and other smaller civs I see no reason why we should ignore central Asia. Especially that each civ has it's own unique culture, and Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan certainly don't lack culture.
Another question is: should they go into "Diplomacy"? I'm not sure here, that's why I don't request them, but rather wait for the LHs, so I can do them myself and upload them here the way I see them.

True, on the Haitian and Puerto Rico bit.
Haiti's history is pretty much nothing but starvation and oppression, whereas Puerto Rico... eh. First a Spanish Colony, then a US colony, now it's... somewhere between being our 51st state and its own country.

Also, I know that Borat is simply meant to be a parody of racist beliefs, foreign relations, and moral dissonance, and that he's not even close to Kazakhstani (He actually kinda reminds me of a Pakistani friend I had, right down to the random bouts of anti-semetism) but I know I won't be able to help myself as I play as Kazakhstan.
It's like playing as Australia and not thinking back to a certain Simpsons episode.

Also, after giving it some thought... although I'd love to see Laos represented, I don't think they'd work well as their own nation. Instead, maybe as Cambodia is represented, we could have Kaysone Phomvihane as a Khmer leader?

 

[MadmanOfALeader]

But now that you were talking Kenya, I did suggest that, in the form of the Swahili.

 

[The Capo]

These are all really good ideas. To start I'll tell you some of the civs that have popped up here that I intended on making;

1) The Berbers - mostly for their geographic position. I also like the story of Al-Kahina and Masanissa could finally make sense as a leader (Ptolemy had his LH originally but I think Ptolemy is going to go bye bye in the next version of Diplomacy). I have always been interested in Berber history (its actually quite vibrant and extensive) and think they'd make a good addition.

2) Pakistan - I don't know if you have noticed by I try to throw in equivalent measures of anceint, middle-period (medieval etc.), and modern. Pakistan would be a good addition for a modern style civ (see Republic of Iran).

3) Kenya/Swahili - if I were to add a new African civ anytime soon this one would sure get the nod. Including the original African civs I have pretty much all of Africa covered save this one portion.

4) Central Asian Civ - I want to do one, but I want to make sure its "worth it" so I want a good empire represented here. The Timurid Empire is a good idea.

Now some comments about the other civs mentioned;

1) I won't make Hong Kong or Taiwan a civ. They are Chinese. And China already exists. Out of all the leaders China will have, only one represents its current/communist manifestation so I don't think Hong Kong and Taiwan are left out in any way.

2) If I were to make a Moroccan civ I would make it the Moors. I won't make a modern Moroccan civ because I don't think it is really necessary considering it is encompassed by Arabia (in a big way) already. Same for the UAE

3) Sorry Kiwis, I have no plans on making New Zealand.

Now. As far as Civs being added to the Diplomacy 2 Deluxe mod. All of the modules I have made will be included. The modules I am working on will also be included. And the module pack I am going to release with the mod (so far I think I have the Hittites, Polynesians, Chile and the Franks). Beyond that I won't be making any more civs that will be included in Diplomacy 2 Deluxe. However I will be making more module packs in the future, including a Native Peoples (focusing on the Americas) pack.

 

[IgorS]

The Capo, what do you think about these suggestions for civs:
1. Croatia, with Tomislav as it's leader.
2. Armenia, with Tigranes as it's leader.
I think these also could be good ideas.

 

[The Capo]

The Capo, what do you think about these suggestions for civs:
1. Croatia, with Tomislav as it's leader.
2. Armenia, with Tigranes as it's leader.
I think these also could be good ideas.

Those could be good ones. You think I should do both for the next module pack? Or should I do Armenia and then a central-asian empire?

 

[MadmanOfALeader]

I think Armenia and the central asian empire would cover fresher ground, personally.