Bts "DUNE WARS" {Development Thread}

keldath · Apr 19, 2009

halleluiah!

we have a worm graphics !

thank alot the_j!!!

well, melinko,
i did almost all of the units as land, just a few is over sea,

so its the main problem for the mod i think,
if the units wont do their mission over allterrain, then......whats the point of having sand sea? sand sea worms...?

ill redo the units and change them all to land, so i really hope you can set somthing there.

i will think more about the roads thing , thanks for the ideas,
gotta go to work now.

Melinko · Apr 19, 2009

Alright I made a new UnitAIInfo for the sandworm, it was a little more difficult then I though to get it all to work, but it is working now. So hopefully any unit you want to act like a sandworm all you need to do is change its DefaultUnitAI.

The_J- I couldn't get the model to work right, not sure why but it crashed the game. There was only a .nif and a .dds in there is that what it was supposed to have?

Melinko · Apr 19, 2009

keldath said:
halleluiah!

we have a worm graphics !

thank alot the_j!!!

well, melinko,
i did almost all of the units as land, just a few is over sea,

so its the main problem for the mod i think,
if the units wont do their mission over allterrain, then......whats the point of having sand sea? sand sea worms...?

Because they are land, doesn't mean that really anything has changed. Just the Domain type is different everything else is going to be the same? The Sand Sea part is just a name, cause it looks like a Sea of sand

Phoenician · Apr 19, 2009

I just realized that in order for the spiritual victory to work you have to maintain control of founding city of your state religion, otherwise if you spread your religion everywhere, someone else can build the 7 holy shrines and all that hard work for spreading your religion has been thwarted. So I added "must control founding city of your state's religion -check first page.

keldath said:
adeded some more uu's
give me some names for units - not for atreidis hark' or ordos, they are finished .

I would recommend the "SandRider" for the Fremen. It is "one who is capable of capturing and riding a sandworm."

For the Sietch Tabr Fremen, I would recommend the "SandWalker" It is "any Fremen trained to survive in the open desert."

Phoenician · Apr 19, 2009

I cannot imagine a Dune mod without the David Lynch/Toto Soundtrack. This soundtrack is GODLY.

Entire Soundtrack to the Lynch film:

Spoiler :

The Children of Dune soundtrack is amazing and would be a great backdrop to the game.

Entire Children of Dune soundtrack:

Spoiler :

keldath · Apr 19, 2009

Melinko,

get me the worm files and i see why theres a crash, pretty good at this part .

im not sure what i understood from you answer/quastion about the domain,

probably you know what i mean, but ill write it anyway:

the problem right now,
that once i made a unit to be able to move all terrain,
it wont nessersary cross the ocean like it should,
i ran some game tests, and saw the result,
nations that are on another continent then i, just wont send forces,
not via air transports or sea transports,
every now and then a few few units partol or move the seas,
not like in the vanilla for instance when the seas are full with patrolling ships,
thats basicly what i want,
the ai, to ignore the fact theres what, once i set a unitai - to unitai_attack_city,
i would like to see hordes of units crossing the desert/sea to get to my cities and attack,
in the vanilla, when you declare war, soon after the ai strikes with a number of units every now and then, or stockpiling units near your borders, and then strikes.

the current issue - when set to move all terrain - it doesnt make the ai to carry out its purpose - if the ai is at war, unless theres a land connection, it wont send forces across sea, even though the units have all terrain movement,

for testing this, i was at war with the ai, with no land connection,
i passed turns and the ai barly attacked, when i formed land connection via world builder, boom the ai send forces to crash me.

so there has to be some solution to make the ai acknoledge that the seas are like land when allterrain is checked for the unit,
my guees - its by making a new set of unitais like the new worm ai, or somthing to do with the domain,
rwally hope you can fix that, cause it kinda buggs me....the whole dune strategy is suppose to be on all terrain movement....so
basicly what im saying,
plz help with that issue....

Phoenician,
dont worry nowfor the victories,
we will cross that bridge later,
im sure we will be able to something nive with them

as for the music,
well p, youve done it again,
i bet it was alot of work to link all the files here,
but i wish you asked me before,
i already got both soundtracks........
so sorry man, but i appriciate it.

The_J · Apr 19, 2009

Melinko said:
The_J- I couldn't get the model to work right, not sure why but it crashed the game. There was only a .nif and a .dds in there is that what it was supposed to have?

Oh, that's sad

.
I don't know, where the problem could be :blush:

, i'm not a 3d artist.

And yes, only a .nif and a .dds, it's not more.

Phoenician said:
I cannot imagine a Dune mod without the David Lynch/Toto Soundtrack. This soundtrack is GODLY.

Yes, the soundtrack is very cool :cool:

, but is this legal?

keldath said:
so there has to be some solution to make the ai acknoledge that the seas are like land when allterrain is checked for the unit,
my guees - its by making a new set of unitais like the new worm ai, or somthing to do with the domain,
rwally hope you can fix that, cause it kinda buggs me....the whole dune strategy is suppose to be on all terrain movement....so
basicly what im saying,
plz help with that issue....

A all terrain unitAi would be cool to see

.

keldath · Apr 19, 2009

The_J,

well , i saw the soundtrack tracks were availbe for dl,

also most of my files are from dune fan sites...so i guess theres no harm there.

al terrain ai....yeah, my biggest wish for the moment.

Melinko · Apr 19, 2009

keldath said:
Melinko,
get me the worm files and i see why theres a crash, pretty good at this part .

im not sure what i understood from you answer/quastion about the domain,

probably you know what i mean, but ill write it anyway:

the problem right now,
that once i made a unit to be able to move all terrain,
it wont nessersary cross the ocean like it should,
i ran some game tests, and saw the result,
nations that are on another continent then i, just wont send forces,
not via air transports or sea transports,
every now and then a few few units partol or move the seas,
not like in the vanilla for instance when the seas are full with patrolling ships,
thats basicly what i want,
the ai, to ignore the fact theres what, once i set a unitai - to unitai_attack_city,
i would like to see hordes of units crossing the desert/sea to get to my cities and attack,
in the vanilla, when you declare war, soon after the ai strikes with a number of units every now and then, or stockpiling units near your borders, and then strikes.

the current issue - when set to move all terrain - it doesnt make the ai to carry out its purpose - if the ai is at war, unless theres a land connection, it wont send forces across sea, even though the units have all terrain movement,

for testing this, i was at war with the ai, with no land connection,
i passed turns and the ai barly attacked, when i formed land connection via world builder, boom the ai send forces to crash me.

so there has to be some solution to make the ai acknoledge that the seas are like land when allterrain is checked for the unit,
my guees - its by making a new set of unitais like the new worm ai, or somthing to do with the domain,
rwally hope you can fix that, cause it kinda buggs me....the whole dune strategy is suppose to be on all terrain movement....so
basicly what im saying,
plz help with that issue....

The_J said:

Well first the model If you click the little arrow it should bring ya to the post the model is attached to, that is where I got the model, it is actually not bad for what we are looking for (Saw it in the Civilopedia) so wouldn't be bad to get in game if possible.

Okay about the all domain.. I have got to ask to make sure all conditions were met did you set all the units that the AI built that would attack to canMoveAllTerrain 1. I don't mean offense, but we got to check out the easiest answer first. I would go through the UnitInfo's and just set it to all of them, and make sure what happened happends again. If you haven't already of course.

Now if you are still having that problem, I am really worried that it is in the AI's warplan. I will look into it of course, but if it is.. that isn't good. The warplan is where the AI takes in info, and sets values to all these things that will then let it decide how to attack. Althought I am not saying this is impossible to change.. it isn't easy. I will go through the UnitAI tonight and check if there is anything else that could possibly be giving this effect, and kinda hope for the best

What we are kinda hoping for is that we can just add a new unit AI to the unit (There is a complex tag that takes a list of UnitAi's so this is where I am hoping to add it to), to have the desired effect.

But.. Yes here comes the but..

If it is because the PlayerAI is not setting the proper warplans to attack because despite the movement allowed it is still water this is going to add a level of complexity that I am not exactly sure I can do yet heh. I will need to look into this one to say yes or no, but let me get the worm done first before I go this far with it (If it even comes to it)

keldath · Apr 19, 2009

hey M',

i hope i understood what you meant, you want to set all of the units to land if they are set to allterrain right?
well in the link i sent you, i not sure all of them are land due to my tests, i did some more work today, and changed it,
but, it will take you 5 minutes to change it to land, not so many units have this in the version i sent you.

i trust you to do what you can with the domain, i dont want you to getto the complicated thing, as you said, lets hope it in the unitai thingy,
anyway, what ever you can come up with, i will be happy.

if not,
we still have another possibility,
which is, to create a map/s script that in its definition, there wont be ocean, and the desert terrein will be created on the map with large mass, im sure that to the talants here on the site, this wont be difficult (future mod has some really advanced scripts).
but this is the less prefered option.

third option,
do the classic, just not using the allterrain code, seperate "deep desert units" from land units, just make the ai transport troops from here to there via air and sea,

also, less prefered option

annnd...opppsi, didnt saw the worm files...
i will do my best to make it work.

small update:
im very close to complete 3 uu's to all the houses i added , im trying to use the best unit models, many flyers by the way.

need unit suggestions and names for:
bene gesserit
bene tleilux
ferning
corino (except sardeukar..)

thanks!!!

Ajidica · Apr 19, 2009

Personaly, I feel that Fenring doesnt really need a complete unit roster, they should be a Corrino/ Bene Gesserit Hybrid as Fenring is actualy distaff cousin of Shaddam and his wife, Margot Fenring is a Bene Gesserit (either of Hidden Rank or a Truthsayer). For Corrinos, the way I handled them in my Dune/Warhammer version is that their army is based around a small core of Sardaukar and the rest in either planetary militia or generic infantry. Names like Imperial Militia, Planetary Militia, Imperial Trooper would work. Bene Gesserit should have gneric fighting units, but for their 'spy/saboteur' units, it would be (in order of lowest rank to highest) Of Hidden Rank, Truthsayers, and finaly Reverend Mother.(IIRC, there is only 1 reverend mother.) Bene Tleiliaxu are Gholas, Face Dancers, and 'Twisted' Mentats, like Pieter DeVries.

One thing I would reccomend is keep this more loyal to the book than the games, it may just be me, but I associate Dune more with the books than the games.

The soundtrack is really nice, however, with the Children soundtrack, do you recall what number the one is that is one of the opening scenes where it looks like snow and one persons son gets hit by a stone-burner and the captives are executed?

Phoenician · Apr 19, 2009

OK, I finished unique buildings, I painted the icons for buttons/civopedia.
Up next: I will work on wonders/national wonders and after I finish that then I will focus on regular buildings. I'm gonna paint most of the wonders, the regular buildings I will photoshop them.

Unique Buildings

Spoiler :

Ok and to answer Ajidica concerns:

Ajidica said:
Its looking good, but for religions, what about Orange Christianity, or is that part of Mahayana Christianity. Although for the Harkonnens, the Leader has to be the Baron Harkonnen, Rabban was only the planetary governor of Arrakis, I don't ever recall if he was made te na-Baron (second in line).
I realize that although I haven't been helping much and don't have much say, I would turn away from the Harkonnens from being purely militaristic. Remember, they planted Yueh in the Atriedes house and orchestrated the whole plan. All the emperor did was give some financail backing and supply the Sardaukar.

The reason I made Rabban a leader is because some civs needed more than one leader so the Harkonnen's were my top choice for that. Rabban was governor of Arrakis for quite some time, probably longer than Boudica of the Celts was their leader.
Frederick is a leader of Germany but he was a Prussian King.

To answer your second concern, why did I make the Harkonnen's militaristic? You are suggesting that I should have them be more espionage-like, but the Bene Tleilax are the most isolated and secretive of all the Houses so I made them the "espionage-builder-turtle" civilization. The Harkonnen's are indeed very aggressive, they have slave pits all over their planet and Rabban killed his own father (that's why he got the name 'BEAST'.) Rabban was so cruel to the Fremen that they called him "Mudir Nahya" which means 'Demon Ruler'.

I am trying to be as accurate as possible with every single thing I do. I welcome your criticism though.

By the way guys, the sandworm looks great! Maybe make it a tad bigger though, but it looks fantastic.

Ajidica · Apr 19, 2009

Out of curiosity, where are you getting the art from? If your making it yourself, good job. I have the artistic talents of a blind fish.
As to the Harkonnens, I fully agree that the HArkonnens should be aggressive, but that they shouldn't be fully agressive. Reasoning behind that is the Baron Harkonnen, although he is agressive, he prefers to put agents into his enemies so he knows who best to attack and how to foil his enemies plots. They sould have some sublty, and the Rabban AI should ignore the sublty factors.

Question: Why did you give the Atriedes the Harvestor Factory as their UB? IIRC, all the spice harvesting equipment that have was leftover from the Harkonnens. I can't think of any better UB for them off the top of my head at the moment.

Phoenician · Apr 19, 2009

Ajidica said:
Out of curiosity, where are you getting the art from? If your making it yourself, good job. I have the artistic talents of a blind fish.
As to the Harkonnens, I fully agree that the HArkonnens should be aggressive, but that they shouldn't be fully agressive. Reasoning behind that is the Baron Harkonnen, although he is agressive, he prefers to put agents into his enemies so he knows who best to attack and how to foil his enemies plots. They sould have some sublty, and the Rabban AI should ignore the sublty factors.

Question: Why did you give the Atriedes the Harvestor Factory as their UB? IIRC, all the spice harvesting equipment that have was leftover from the Harkonnens. I can't think of any better UB for them off the top of my head at the moment.

Yes, I painted the icons for the unique buildings and 7 Holy Shrines. Like I said I'm going to paint most of the icons for wonders and national wonders-but I will photoshop most of the regular buildings. Thanks for the compliment-that's what 7 years of art school gets you lol. I paint/draw really fast and the paintings are really small -4 inches x 4 inches so it's not that time consuming really. In case you were wondering, they are done in watercolor and ink but I usually paint almost exclusively in oils. By the way it took me 2 days just to come up with ideas and research for the unique buildings, it only took me 2 hours to paint the icons. I don't know anything about modding-I tried but it's really hard for me to understand. I'm very bad with technical stuff. I went to art school to study fine arts(painting)-not computer graphics or anything like that.
If I could understand how to model units (and have the right program for it?) I would help Keldath and Melinko. Until then, I'm gonna leave the technical stuff to them.

I understand the concern over the harvester factory, but who is to say they did not refine the method? It was mainly a balance issue-I wanted a forge replacement for the Atreides so he could run an extra engineer (which is great because Leto is philosophical) and something to give him a small eco boost. Also I made the Baron charismatic for the reasons you stated above. I made Rabban protective because he is in charge of garrisoning Arrakis and due to the Fremen campaign against him I am sure he was trying to "hold the line"

But it's great to have you along as a reference guide. I only read the first book, I'm in process of reading all 6 books, including rereading the original book so I can have a better grasp of the Dune world and for fun.

Ajidica · Apr 19, 2009

I actualy never read any book beyond God Emperor, but I am planning on restarting Heretics and continuing. From what I can tell by reading wikipedia entries, it is alot more 'fall' like, and for some reason I really like cyclical history.

For making units, you can use either GIMP or Photoshop, although GIMP needs a .dds plugin (.dds is the texture type that civ uses). Im not sure with photoshopbut I'm pretty sure it also needs a .dds plugin. For modeling you can use either Blender(which is free) or 3DSMax(which isnt but apparently has more tools) for animating, you can use 3DSMax or Blender, The_Coyote wrote a tutorial on how to animate with blender, although IIRC, it is more dificult as it isnt the program used to animate the civ units originaly.

EDIT: As to the Axlotl Tanks, perhaps Axlotl Complex would make more sense becasue as described in the later books the tanks aren't exactly 'tanks'.

Spoiler :

Phoenician · Apr 20, 2009

I have an idea about Atomics. Atomics could be bombardment weapons, they function like an ICBM, but they don't cause fallout and they don't kill units or destroy buildings or kill population and it can't destroy improvements. Its basically like a long range artillery, it can either bombard an entire cities defenses on one turn or cause collateral damage equivilent to a mobile artillery. But either way, when you use it, it is destroyed. It should have a small explosion animation for believable effects. The pros of this is that you don't have to carry artillery around with you and you don't have to worry about nuclear fallout or losing units to an atomics spammer. They should cost the same as an ICBM. This would also be Dune accurate as there is a lot of imperial regulation on the use of atomics.

I also want to add that Fedaykin should also be a UU for the Fremen.
Fedaykin: Fremen death commandos; historically: a group formed and pledged to give their lives to right a wrong.

keldath · Apr 20, 2009

Ajidica,

well, i wanna add as much houses as possible...so for now i added ferning.

indeed i see the hark' as an aggressive nation,
most of the uus i gave them are more strong the the unit class.

Phoenician,
as usuall, great art work.

thanks for the ubs, i thought of maybe making mmore then 1 ub.

atomics,
well, your suggesting i make a "missle" unit that cause collateral damage like a regular siege weapon? like a missile acctually but only more power full?
for now i made a missile unit named hunter seeker missile, that has similar effect, with it , availbe on subatomic fusion, is the tactical nuke,

and the icbm - moved to the last tech - named "atomic missile" under atomics tech.

Phoenician,
Ajidica wrote how to get the tools for model making,
i really hope you can try and do so - there are tons of guides how to create,
the progs needed are 3dmax and some tools,
even i recently learned how to do small stuff on niftools...

hope you can try, cause i bet, when if youll master those programs,
with your art skill you could do the perfect unit models for dune wars.

Phoenician · Apr 20, 2009

keldath said:
Ajidica,

well, i wanna add as much houses as possible...so for now i added ferning.

indeed i see the hark' as an aggressive nation,
most of the uus i gave them are more strong the the unit class.

Phoenician,
as usuall, great art work.

thanks for the ubs, i thought of maybe making mmore then 1 ub.

atomics,
well, your suggesting i make a "missle" unit that cause collateral damage like a regular siege weapon? like a missile acctually but only more power full?
for now i made a missile unit named hunter seeker missile, that has similar effect, with it , availbe on subatomic fusion, is the tactical nuke,

and the icbm - moved to the last tech - named "atomic missile" under atomics tech.

Phoenician,
Ajidica wrote how to get the tools for model making,
i really hope you can try and do so - there are tons of guides how to create,
the progs needed are 3dmax and some tools,
even i recently learned how to do small stuff on niftools...

hope you can try, cause i bet, when if youll master those programs,
with your art skill you could do the perfect unit models for dune wars.

Keldath, I really hate playing with nukes, plus I think they are Over-Powered. In terms of Dune accuracy, it would make sense if the atomics were advanced bombard missiles. Some AI personalities love to nuke you and that pisses me off to no end. It would really ruin my enjoyment of the game if nukes caused global warming, killed population, destroyed buildings and pillaged improvements. In fact I think regular missiles like the hunter seeker should not be able to bombard improvements either.
As you may know, the AI loves to spam cruise missles and destroy all your improvements in a couple turns. I HATE THAT- especially since I play exclusevely marathon speed and improvements take longer to build.

In terms of corporations, this is just my opinion and this is your call, but I would rather not have to deal with them. I think sid's sushi and mining inc are way too overpowered. I think it would make the game more challenging without corps.

In terms of terrain yield, I have no idea what you are doing. But I would suggest having different types of desert terrain.
Desert-hammer rich
Desert-water/commerce rich
Desert-useless
Desert-water rich

I am still working on wonders and national wonders and regular buildings. For now I am
going to assume that you are making everything a desert tiles-so if I make building replacement for a lighthouse or harbor or great lighthouse etc. then I am assuming they benefit all desert tiles or "water-desert" tiles.

Also, I really think it is overkill to have more than one Unique building per civ. I made all the unique buildings strong, none of them are weak.

I will try very very hard to understand these modeling programs after I finish all these buildings.

keldath · Apr 20, 2009

hey,

well,
i kinda like nukes,

though i will make them expenssive,
if youll want, ill remove the nukes just for you wheh i finish,
wont be a prob.

i think more people would rather have nukes on board.
perhaps i can limit up to a number of missiles each time - 4-10.

as for the yeilds,
well i plan something nice actually:

most terrain will not give food at start,
ill make it that the city square on creation, will produce extra food to cover for that for the start, then,
i will make it availbe on irrigation - first tech,
to be irrigation - this will give a minimun value of food to a tile, 1 graid, 2 with another terrain,
then later in the tech tree, i will allow sand farms, that you will be able to built only on a tile with irtigation (improvment preq), and after you build sand farms on irrigation, this will boost thee city more,
later i will allow to buld another type of farm that will boost farms more - i wont allow many tech related bonueses or vanilla rules - of farm spread irrigation nor farms do not need river or fresh water - this limitation will be avilabe on start - irrigation is free to be built anywere at start.

sounds nice huh?

Phoenician · Apr 20, 2009

keldath said:
hey,

well,
i kinda like nukes,

though i will make them expenssive,
if youll want, ill remove the nukes just for you wheh i finish,
wont be a prob.

i think more people would rather have nukes on board.
perhaps i can limit up to a number of missiles each time - 4-10.

as for the yeilds,
well i plan something nice actually:

most terrain will not give food at start,
ill make it that the city square on creation, will produce extra food to cover for that for the start, then,
i will make it availbe on irrigation - first tech,
to be irrigation - this will give a minimun value of food to a tile, 1 graid, 2 with another terrain,
then later in the tech tree, i will allow sand farms, that you will be able to built only on a tile with irtigation (improvment preq), and after you build sand farms on irrigation, this will boost thee city more,
later i will allow to buld another type of farm that will boost farms more - i wont allow many tech related bonueses or vanilla rules - of farm spread irrigation nor farms do not need river or fresh water - this limitation will be avilabe on start - irrigation is free to be built anywere at start.

sounds nice huh?

No, don't remove nukes for me. I really like the idea of limiting how many you can have and that they are expensive. I've had some real bad experiences with the Gilgamesh and Justinian A.I. -in case you haven't noticed -they really love to spam tactical nukes. It's not that I hate nukes, I just really hate the spammage of them and really hate the global warming they cause. Can you at least get rid of global warming effect from them? Also could you make it that missiles cannot destroy improvements?

I really dig your terrain ideas. But what about commerce and hammers? What are you going to do with that?

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