[BtS] JKP1187's NOT JUST ANOTHER NEXTWAR MOD
- Thread starter jkp1187
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jkp1187
Unindicted Co-Conspirator
Possibly. It looks like an on/off switch for this feature won't be that difficult to implement, the problem is that it will require an SDK mod (which I've tried to avoid doing.) Let me look into it. The key will be me getting my hands on the appropriate compiler.
For whatever it's worth, I am intent on improving the resource depletion code from what was originally in NextWar -- my goal is to keep it from happening until later in the game, and to keep it relatively rare.
I want to make the feature so that it provides some spice in the late game, not make it a huge headache for the player, with resources disappearing left and right. If I can't do that to my satisfaction, I will leave it out.
For whatever it's worth, I am intent on improving the resource depletion code from what was originally in NextWar -- my goal is to keep it from happening until later in the game, and to keep it relatively rare.
I want to make the feature so that it provides some spice in the late game, not make it a huge headache for the player, with resources disappearing left and right. If I can't do that to my satisfaction, I will leave it out.
Coming towards the end of a 50+ hours, marathon, huge world game with a friend using your Mod. It makes for a very fun game. Well done. We'll wait until you release your mod merged with Dale's latest combat mod before starting a new one. I've never played the Revolutions mod, but it seems interesting. Are you planning on eventually merging all three?
My 2 cents:
- We agree that the arcologies and domes should be double the cost.
- The biological warheads should be more effective
- Maybe the clone units should cost less hammers to build
- You should be able to build as many Dreadnought and Mech units as you wish. If this makes them overpowered, their hammer cost could be increased.
- The amount needed for a cultural victory should be increased to match the delayed space race. For example, from 150,000 per city (in Marathon) to 200,000.
- I would like to see both the Space Elevator and the Manhattan Project made into national wonders. Don't know if the AI would use them though.
- It has always seemed unrealistic to me that in Civ you can start to build the spaceship before you have the technology to finish it. I would like to see all the space parts (and the Space Elevator) moved up to the "Future Tech" tech. I realize that this makes the game even longer, but to me that's not a bad thing.
- Bring back the stealth fighter from CivIII! It would be nice to have some futuristic aircraft and armor to accompany the Mechs and Cyborgs, though I realize that it's tricky adding new unit graphics.
- As if you haven't done enough, I would love to see Macsbug's "M.A.D. Nukes" Mod added to the soup. I think it would really compliment the game. Then I'd like to see all that merged with Genghis Kai's "Giant Earth Map" Mod, but that's because I'm insane. In the meantime, we're eagerly awaiting your merge with Dale's latest Combat Mod!
My 2 cents:
- We agree that the arcologies and domes should be double the cost.
- The biological warheads should be more effective
- Maybe the clone units should cost less hammers to build
- You should be able to build as many Dreadnought and Mech units as you wish. If this makes them overpowered, their hammer cost could be increased.
- The amount needed for a cultural victory should be increased to match the delayed space race. For example, from 150,000 per city (in Marathon) to 200,000.
- I would like to see both the Space Elevator and the Manhattan Project made into national wonders. Don't know if the AI would use them though.
- It has always seemed unrealistic to me that in Civ you can start to build the spaceship before you have the technology to finish it. I would like to see all the space parts (and the Space Elevator) moved up to the "Future Tech" tech. I realize that this makes the game even longer, but to me that's not a bad thing.
- Bring back the stealth fighter from CivIII! It would be nice to have some futuristic aircraft and armor to accompany the Mechs and Cyborgs, though I realize that it's tricky adding new unit graphics.
- As if you haven't done enough, I would love to see Macsbug's "M.A.D. Nukes" Mod added to the soup. I think it would really compliment the game. Then I'd like to see all that merged with Genghis Kai's "Giant Earth Map" Mod, but that's because I'm insane. In the meantime, we're eagerly awaiting your merge with Dale's latest Combat Mod!
jkp1187
Unindicted Co-Conspirator
Thanks for the feedback. I'm glad you are enjoying the mod. Regarding the cultural victory, I agree that it needs to be delayed a little to make the space race more viable. This will be tweaked in the final build. Right now, I'm more interested in tweaking iCulturePercent in GameSpeedInfos rather than messing around with the bottom line culture victory value. (I tried doing it earlier, but I messed up the XML. In my working copy right now, I think I fixed the errors.)
I would like to see Manhattan as a National Project, not wonder. Unfortunately, there's no easy way to do it as a project, and if you do it as a nat'l wonder, then that civ can't build nukes if the city containing the wonder is lost. So I dont like that solution very much. I also think that the Space Elevator should remain a world wonder, just because it seems to work well in the game as such. That said, it would be very simple for you to edit these on your own. All you need to do is change one value in one of the XML files and Space Elevator will be a nat'l wonder, for instance.
I'd love to include a modern stealth fighter, as well as a B-52 style jet bomber. But my art skill is zero. There's also the matter of making sure the units balance well with the rest of the units. My goal here is just to present a totally stable platform that any civ player could jump in and use.... But once I have the official build where i want it to be, I may very well do a few extra mods on the side.
I'm trying to be conservative in what I change, too....like the Assault mech and Dreadnought cap. I'm keeping that in, just b/c I figure there must be a reason it was there in the first place, and I havent heard a compelling reason to remove it. (Though I am open to arguments.). Again, though, this is an easy XML change for the home modder.
Regarding bio-weapons, what is it that you don't like about them? What would you change about them?
Again, thanks!
I would like to see Manhattan as a National Project, not wonder. Unfortunately, there's no easy way to do it as a project, and if you do it as a nat'l wonder, then that civ can't build nukes if the city containing the wonder is lost. So I dont like that solution very much. I also think that the Space Elevator should remain a world wonder, just because it seems to work well in the game as such. That said, it would be very simple for you to edit these on your own. All you need to do is change one value in one of the XML files and Space Elevator will be a nat'l wonder, for instance.
I'd love to include a modern stealth fighter, as well as a B-52 style jet bomber. But my art skill is zero. There's also the matter of making sure the units balance well with the rest of the units. My goal here is just to present a totally stable platform that any civ player could jump in and use.... But once I have the official build where i want it to be, I may very well do a few extra mods on the side.
I'm trying to be conservative in what I change, too....like the Assault mech and Dreadnought cap. I'm keeping that in, just b/c I figure there must be a reason it was there in the first place, and I havent heard a compelling reason to remove it. (Though I am open to arguments.). Again, though, this is an easy XML change for the home modder.
Regarding bio-weapons, what is it that you don't like about them? What would you change about them?
Again, thanks!
jkp1187
Unindicted Co-Conspirator
Oh - sorry if formatting in that last post is bad. I am posting from my Blackberry b/c we dont have Internet hooked up at work yet!
jkp1187
Unindicted Co-Conspirator
Oh, and to answer your last question, it probably is simple to merge Revolutions + DCM, but it would DEFINITELY require SDK merging. So I'm not in a position to do it until I become more comfortable with the SDK.
On the other hand, merging NextWar with DCM *or* Revolutions will not be a problem at all. Just requires merging of folders, and maybe a few XMLs.
On the other hand, merging NextWar with DCM *or* Revolutions will not be a problem at all. Just requires merging of folders, and maybe a few XMLs.
ggalindo001
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2002
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Well, just finished a game on Emperor merged with the Revolution Mod.....I didn't win, but had a respectible result. From about 1800 on, the world was in constant war and revolution, and despite having a strong military, have 4 nations take their turn against me finally knocked me out of the game. At one point, they were lined up like at a drive thru taking shots at my "maginot line" city and finally taking it out. A few observations:
1. Agree with the thought of stretching out both the cultural victories and the space race victory. Yakob (space race and my main nemesis) and Mansa Musa (culture) were light years ahead of everybody at the end. I was 2 turns away from having the tech for assault mech and may have been able to turn the game had I had another 10 or so turns. Such is life.
2. Merging with the Revolution mod toward the end of the game caused just constant war. Not sure if it was because I was playing on Terra and by the time the good weapons came about, everybody already hated everyone else. Also, started with 8 civs, ended up with 23, and at one point 26 were on the board. It was a crazy game.
3. Something I thought I would never see...two civs that formed a permanent alliance later becoming the vassals of another civ.
I've been very happy with the "not just next war" mod, and I think with the right tweaks to Revolutions, could be a VERY choice mod. I'm going to experiment with revolutions for my next game to see if I can tone down the war just a little bit. Plus, not starting on a Terra, and not going from 8 to 26 might help as well!
Keep up the good work.
1. Agree with the thought of stretching out both the cultural victories and the space race victory. Yakob (space race and my main nemesis) and Mansa Musa (culture) were light years ahead of everybody at the end. I was 2 turns away from having the tech for assault mech and may have been able to turn the game had I had another 10 or so turns. Such is life.
2. Merging with the Revolution mod toward the end of the game caused just constant war. Not sure if it was because I was playing on Terra and by the time the good weapons came about, everybody already hated everyone else. Also, started with 8 civs, ended up with 23, and at one point 26 were on the board. It was a crazy game.
3. Something I thought I would never see...two civs that formed a permanent alliance later becoming the vassals of another civ.
I've been very happy with the "not just next war" mod, and I think with the right tweaks to Revolutions, could be a VERY choice mod. I'm going to experiment with revolutions for my next game to see if I can tone down the war just a little bit. Plus, not starting on a Terra, and not going from 8 to 26 might help as well!
Keep up the good work.
jkp1187
Unindicted Co-Conspirator
That's cool. The next update (hopefully within a week,) will definitely have a modification to the culture calculations. I'm not sure what could be done to stretch out the space race, other than maybe tech costs....do you think this is necessary? I recently got a space race win on Prince level with the spaceship reaching AC in about 2073. Not an outrageous time -- although that build both increased culture costs by 5% and reduced tech costs by 3%. I may just eliminate the reduction in tech cost altogether for the final build.
Also, almost all of my playtesting is on normal speed/standard maps, so you guys playing on the large/huge maps and epic/marathon, I definitely need/appreciate your feedback.
Just so you know, I am always going to keep the 'vanilla' JKP/NextWar mod updated and separate from any combo mods, although there will be separate downloads for JKP/NextWar+Revolutions and JKP/NextWar+DCM. (And hopefully a granddaddy mod with all three.)
ggalindo001
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2002
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- 362
The problem I have with the Space Race as it is implemented in Civ 4 is based on a conversation I had with one of the lead engineers at the JPL who said we are in the neighborhood of 14-16 generations away until the human ability to effectively explore outside of our current solar system will be reached. This would place the date in approximately in the 2250 range (assuming just under 20 years per generation).
I saw one of the posters say that waiting for the future techs before really being able to start on the Space Race could effectively slow down the winning, and although I like that idea, in the end, I think it disadvantages certain civilizations who are always going for the Space victory.
I recall an early Civ4 mod that had a more balanced end-score....where you had all of the events of "victory", but the game didn't end until the end with the highest score winning. As a result, you could have one civ focus on space race, one on culture, one on military, etc., and in the end, it is balance that wins. I really just don't like how I am incented to sack cities that are about to achieve legendary culture or the capital where a spaceship is launched..... in the name of victory.
I suppose turning off all victory conditions but time may solve this, but then it doesn't allow for spaceship launch, etc. IMO that should be a huge bonus, esp. if you were first to land, but not the only criteria for victory. Same with culture, diplomacy, etc.
I will say that I have had a lot more fun playing this mod than others, I do like the mix of the modern and future units and the balance to the game that brings.
I would suggest looking into Sevo's Mastery victory condition mod to bridge the gap....and maybe some tweaking with the scoring since the game now will go a lot longer.
jkp1187
Unindicted Co-Conspirator
Probably true, (although if we REALLY threw caution and budgeting to the wind, a starship powered with nuclear pulse propulsion could be constructed with off-the-shelf technology today.) Alas, this is one of the concessions to artistic license that has always been there in the Civilization world...the only real way around it would be to continue the game to 2300 or 2500 with Call to Power-esque futuristic units comprising a significant portion of the game. That traditionally hasn't been what Civ is about.
I'll check out Sevo's Mastery when I get a chance.
jkp1187
Unindicted Co-Conspirator
Hey -- this is a general call out for help from artistic people. I need some help creating four *.dds buttons for use to represent the four new Unit Classes that were introduced in NextWar:
BioWar Units
Clone Units
Dreadnought Units
Assault Mech Units
Right now, these buttons are just using placeholders borrowed from currently-existing unit classes (Armor and Cavalry, I think.) I guess they never got around to generating appropriate buttons for the mod.
Anyway, my artistic skill is about zero, so if anyone can come up with something, that would be awesome.
For BioWar, I'm sure it would just be the usual bio symbol (akin to the anti-bio promotion, except without the red circle & slash). I think that a silhouette of the Assault Mech unit would be good (if possible).
I'm not sure what to use for Clones or Dreadnought (though I think these symbols shouldn't be silhouettes, but rather some distinctive icon (like the ones from SMAC.)
Anyway, would appreciate any help that could be provided on this!
BioWar Units
Clone Units
Dreadnought Units
Assault Mech Units
Right now, these buttons are just using placeholders borrowed from currently-existing unit classes (Armor and Cavalry, I think.) I guess they never got around to generating appropriate buttons for the mod.
Anyway, my artistic skill is about zero, so if anyone can come up with something, that would be awesome.
For BioWar, I'm sure it would just be the usual bio symbol (akin to the anti-bio promotion, except without the red circle & slash). I think that a silhouette of the Assault Mech unit would be good (if possible).
I'm not sure what to use for Clones or Dreadnought (though I think these symbols shouldn't be silhouettes, but rather some distinctive icon (like the ones from SMAC.)
Anyway, would appreciate any help that could be provided on this!
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ggalindo001
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2002
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- 362
There were good ideas with that one, not sure if there is a off the shelf version for BTS.
Incidentally, I did like the new Stalin music as well.
I started a duel game just to test a few things with Revolution....I think I just need to tweak that for my personal preferences.
In my earlier game (8 civs that spawned to 26), the spaceship arrived in 2064....not too bad.
Best "random event" was inventing Banana Splits in the 2050s. Very nice.
jkp1187
Unindicted Co-Conspirator
I created these for my mod, not great, but imo better than reusing some icons as is done in Next War.
If you are interested in them, let me know.
Yes, these look great. May I use them?
jkp1187
Unindicted Co-Conspirator
Sure, if you don't have my mod, tell me and I'll upload a zip with them
Yes, can you please upload them? Thanks.
jkp1187
Unindicted Co-Conspirator
I think I'm heading toward the final build for this. I want to play one last full game, so I may not get around to uploading this until the weekend, maybe a little later. This is the list of anticipated changes for JKP/NextWar 1.05:
1.) The biggest change is going to be the resource depletion code.
The resource depletion check will be done periodically (not every turn) and even then the odds are going to be low that any given resource will be exhausted (along the lines of 1:1000). Resources cannot be depleted unless the civ has the enabling tech for that resource (e.g., Iron requires Iron Working). Also, civs running Environmentalism will have a lower chance that any resources will be depleted.
If/when I figure out how to do it, I will make this an optional feature (either by editing the Civilization4.ini file, an XML file, or by a button on the Custom Game screen at startup.) Don't count on it immediately, though.
2.) There will also be one new random event -- Slip and Fall -- starring everyone's favorite unit, the Assault Mech.
3.) iCulturePercent will be increased by 5% to compensate for the 5% additional turns in the game. I was going back and forth over whether or not I should reduce iTechPercent a little (in other words, making techs slightly cheaper -- say 1% - 3% across-the-board). What are people's thoughts on this?
4.) Arcologies will require both Hydroponics AND Composites to be built now. (This is a 'realism' concession -- it just seems that modern building materials would be needed to build an arcology.)
5.) Mamba's Unit Category icons will be added.
Once this is complete, I will get around to merging this mod with jdog's Revolution and Dale's Combat Mod (whenever Dale puts out a final version of DCM, that is.)
1.) The biggest change is going to be the resource depletion code.
The resource depletion check will be done periodically (not every turn) and even then the odds are going to be low that any given resource will be exhausted (along the lines of 1:1000). Resources cannot be depleted unless the civ has the enabling tech for that resource (e.g., Iron requires Iron Working). Also, civs running Environmentalism will have a lower chance that any resources will be depleted.
If/when I figure out how to do it, I will make this an optional feature (either by editing the Civilization4.ini file, an XML file, or by a button on the Custom Game screen at startup.) Don't count on it immediately, though.
2.) There will also be one new random event -- Slip and Fall -- starring everyone's favorite unit, the Assault Mech.
3.) iCulturePercent will be increased by 5% to compensate for the 5% additional turns in the game. I was going back and forth over whether or not I should reduce iTechPercent a little (in other words, making techs slightly cheaper -- say 1% - 3% across-the-board). What are people's thoughts on this?
4.) Arcologies will require both Hydroponics AND Composites to be built now. (This is a 'realism' concession -- it just seems that modern building materials would be needed to build an arcology.)
5.) Mamba's Unit Category icons will be added.
Once this is complete, I will get around to merging this mod with jdog's Revolution and Dale's Combat Mod (whenever Dale puts out a final version of DCM, that is.)
jkp1187
Unindicted Co-Conspirator
No -- when Firaxis releases a new patch, or if there are bugs to be fixed, or if I decide/am convinced that something else needs to be changed, I will definitely update it. There may yet be a few tweaks to make (new Random Events, or adding an 'off' switch for the resource depletion code.) But I just mean that this is going to be the official, 1.0, non-Beta version of the mod.
