[BTS Total Mod] Thomas' War

[Yngvi]

Well, some good news. I hope it doesn't confuse things further. I downloaded the first new patch (post #389) and have been playing it with no crashes (so far at least.) The turn time is shorter (25% perhaps.)

I have not tried the second new patch (post #399) yet, since there is a warning that it breaks saves and I want to keep playing my current map (huge, 11 civs) for a while longer.

 

[tsentom1]

Well, some good news. I hope it doesn't confuse things further. I downloaded the first new patch (post #389) and have been playing it with no crashes (so far at least.) The turn time is shorter (25% perhaps.)

I have not tried the second new patch (post #399) yet, since there is a warning that it breaks saves and I want to keep playing my current map (huge, 11 civs) for a while longer.

My mistake sorry. The second new patch won't break saves if you already used a previous patch. Only if you're going from the default download. Should have mentioned it.

 

[tsentom1]

I now have either a direct crash to the desktop (Well, aside from that useless "Want to send Microsoft information?" prompt...), or the video allocate errors. It seems random as to which one happens.

Otherwise, no change (I can't really test out what else you've done due to the crashes, sadly...).

Well the second new patch was mostly to fix the turn times as I figured out what was slowing it down when I corrected a minor MAF thing in the first new patch. I figured there was a chance it would also help with the crashes as it did cut down processing for a lot of things.

Still working on it.

 

[Yngvi]

I think I jinxed myself, saying I so far had no crashes. I installed the second new patch, and soon after, I started having MAF crashes every few turns.

I don't think it is the second new patch, because I then tried it also on the earlier patch and it also started crashing.

One thing is certain, though, the leaders were doing it every time.

 

[turingmachine]

I still think everyone complaining about MAFs is putting too much blame on Thomas' Mod and not enough on themselves. Take the previous poster... you're playing Huge map sizes. You're justification is that it's part of the regular game. But this isn't the regular game, it's a giant mod that adds 1.4 GB of data to the regular game. Of course you are going to MAF playing a Huge world size. If you're going to play big mods like this you can't expect to be playing giant games.

Saying well RoM of FFH doesn't MAF as much is not the same because those two mods make extensive use of SDK modifications. Thomas' War - amazingly so - doesn't use a custom DLL. (I say it's amazing considering how many unique aspects he's managed to add without modding the SDK). It takes way more memory when everything is being called from the python and not the SDK.

He admitted there could be a bug in the code and again amazingly cut the turn times by more than 50%. Though looking at what the patch changed he didn't so much fix a bug as completely change how things function. He no longer calls two of the python callbacks he was using before. Obviously, I don't know if these were intentional changes or Tom decided to remove those abilites for the greater good of the mod.

Yngvi you said in a previous post you have more than 2GB of ram, you can fix - or at least seriously help - your MAFs by following this link

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=224178

 

[Mister Giggles]

"If you're going to play big mods like this you can't expect to be playing giant games."

Thing is, the guy has a freaking super computer. Nothing, no matter how outragerous, this game can produce should be able to topple his specs.

"It takes way more memory when everything is being called from the python and not the SDK."

I did not know this, still...if I'm not having any memory problems, this guy shouldn't come close either despite the size of world he plays.

 

[tsentom1]

Ahh, please no fighting in the thread.

The point is, many people who have 'normal' computers are exepriencing no MAFs, so there must be something conflicting if people with above average computers are getting them.

~~~

This is somewhat unrelated, but another trick is to play single player games in multiplayer. Basically, set a password protected multiplayer game with all AI. Because of the simultaneous turn option multiplayer has (which if anyone has made a mod porting this to also work in strict singleplayer let me know) the game - in general not just my mod - runs way better. Granted you loose the ability to use the world builder and it's not convenient for everyone. But that does work.

 

[The Capo]

Ahh, please no fighting in the thread.
This is somewhat unrelated, but another trick is to play single player games in multiplayer. Basically, set a password protected multiplayer game with all AI. Because of the simultaneous turn option multiplayer has (which if anyone has made a mod porting this to also work in strict singleplayer let me know) the game - in general not just my mod - runs way better. Granted you loose the ability to use the world builder and it's not convenient for everyone. But that does work.

Wow, does this really work? I never knew about this. Because I've learned that in my mod (check my sig) I can play on a large map with about ten civs at the most and anything beyond that I get MAF errors. If this works that would be awesome cuz I like playing with a lot of civs.

BTW; this mod (Thomas' War) is one of the, if not the, best mod around. Its not too complicated, its not too different, but its complicated and different enough to make it fun. This is the mod that got me interested in modding in the first place, and while I may not be the best modder around, I think I'm learning pretty quickly. So honestly the best advice is not to get greedy; if you are playing a mod there are going to be limitations to that mod, that's just the way it is. It takes a lot of time and patience to make these things so it sucks to hear crap from people playing on huge maps with 25 civs about friggin' MAF errors, especially when your major concern is that the python is working correctly. Good work Tsentom1, keep it up!

 

[Mister Giggles]

Hrm, I've tried a duel size map, stable, until I hit the future era. Unlike the other games I've played, very little is going on. 18 cities in total, 4 other civs, not a great deal of units or improvements.

It would appear that once it crashes once, it becomes systematic - happening every few turns or whenever a few leaders are talked to, the Civilopedia is accessed, or a wonder movie plays. It would appear to me that something in the late modern/early future era is the root cause, as the game is perfectly stable beforehand.

Would a save from this particular game be useful?

 

[Yngvi]

The Capo since when does people sincerely trying to help someone else count as "crap"?

And no one here has said they play some oversized map with 25 civs.

 

[tsentom1]

Several things:

Capo, thanks for the words of encouragement. The single player as multiplayer thing (if you use simultaneous turns) doesn't fix problems but I've been able to to play things larger than I normally would on single player (and turn time wait is greatly reduced). Granted it doesn't fix things and it's not an excuse to double the size your normally play. I don't know if it's official, but it's something I've noticed personally. There must be a way to mod over the simultaneous turns to run in singleplayer, as it's mainly that which I think helps.

Mister Giggles, a save is always helpful and the past saves have helped me fix bugs faster.

Yngvi, I continue to work and go through my code and am improving it all the time. You and Mister Giggles have been very helpful in my correcting of bugs and it's appreciated.

 

[tsentom1]

Thomas' War has technically passed 10,000 downloads (if you add the total downloads Thomas' War versions 1, 2, and 3 have had together - I reset and repost the download when it upgrades to a new number). Thanks for everyone enjoying the mod and helping me to make it better!

 

[Mister Giggles]

Here you go, then. Also, congratulations.

Edit: It's queer, but the save isn't crashing right now. Therefore I removed it as not to send you on a wild goose chase.

 

[Yngvi]

For what it's worth, here's my latest game, with the continual leader crashes.
I hope it helps because this is my favorite mod. (It's backward for 1740 because I'm experimenting with no tech trading.)

 

[VimesUK]

Yngvi - I had a go with your saved game and it played fine for around 30 turns with zero problems. I met all the leaders and offered them resources etc and I generally just went along with what was recommended to build.

Just a thought...

I Alt-Tabbed the game several times just to note how demanding it was and found it used just short of 1GB of memory.
I can tell with the lag between turns, small on my machine as it is reasonably fast, and the size of the map that you have used, and the fact that the map seems to be fully revealed, that the demands for this game is going to be quite a test with most peoples hardware.

Whether you would prefer to maintain the above playing style or not is your choice but have you considered a small map with only a few Civs just to see if that is any more stable for you..?

It could be that the playability of some games, possibly combined with mods of greater scope and complexity, can be compromised when combined with some peoples hardware.?

Thomas - congrats on the number of downloads and it is commendable of the effort that you are putting in to improve the stability of this mod, I do hope that you can achieve that for those who are having problems whilst maintaining the magnitude and scope of your mod.
Still a good old clean up and scoring your code for gremlins must be a good thing

 

[Yngvi]

Morgan UK, thanks for playing it. The maximum memory usage I saw was about 600 MB, but in any case it should be well within capacity.

To be honest, I've tried just about everything except turingmachine's suggested fix, which I'm not sure is necessary and I'm reluctant to try for one mod.

In any case, I'm glad it runs right for you. This is a great mod but I'm going elsewhere for a while. I hope it works out for everyone.

 

[Edward The Big]

The good news...

With Patch A, there was a 10 second delay between turns around the year 1 AD.

With Patch B, there was a normal delay...So it appears the patch fixed that problem (the only thing being that I don't get any tech popups anymore, which is only really a problem when I get a tech from a goodie hut..otherwise I don't care about the popups)

On a side note, I am really pumped about the new wonders you have created...when will be see Copernicus for Thomas War...or the new one that allows access to all religions. Could you include those in a new patch?

 

[tsentom1]

The good news...

With Patch A, there was a 10 second delay between turns around the year 1 AD.

With Patch B, there was a normal delay...So it appears the patch fixed that problem (the only thing being that I don't get any tech popups anymore, which is only really a problem when I get a tech from a goodie hut..otherwise I don't care about the popups)

On a side note, I am really pumped about the new wonders you have created...when will be see Copernicus for Thomas War...or the new one that allows access to all religions. Could you include those in a new patch?

Hmmm, no tech popups. That shouldn't of happened and I probably just made a typo somewhere. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I'll fix it.

Well, Copernicus is in as the Golden Dawn in Thomas' War. The modcomp Golden Dawn (which allows access to all religions) will be a while as I need to figure out how to best do it with the extra religions found in Thomas' War (but because of religion choice not always used). Topkapi will be soon probably - though part of its bonus is already in as an adjustment to the hereditary rule civic.

 

[tsentom1]

Morgan UK, thanks for playing it. The maximum memory usage I saw was about 600 MB, but in any case it should be well within capacity.

To be honest, I've tried just about everything except turingmachine's suggested fix, which I'm not sure is necessary and I'm reluctant to try for one mod.

In any case, I'm glad it runs right for you. This is a great mod but I'm going elsewhere for a while. I hope it works out for everyone.

I'm going to continue to work on it and hopefully it'll be working for you soon. In the meantime thanks for all your work in helping be weed out bugs in the code. Your recent save alone helped me find one (though sadly unrelated to MAFs)

 

[tsentom1]

The good news...

With Patch A, there was a 10 second delay between turns around the year 1 AD.

With Patch B, there was a normal delay...So it appears the patch fixed that problem (the only thing being that I don't get any tech popups anymore, which is only really a problem when I get a tech from a goodie hut..otherwise I don't care about the popups)

On a side note, I am really pumped about the new wonders you have created...when will be see Copernicus for Thomas War...or the new one that allows access to all religions. Could you include those in a new patch?

Okay, I fixed the tech popup thing (stupid typo), and the patch has been updated (see my sig). Same deal, it is save game compatible if you patched already, not if you haven't.