Buddhists

[civverguy]

Go here
for some Buddhist info.

 

[Masquerouge]

Buddhism has some interesting features, but I'm not really fond of the whole Karma and reincarnation thing.

I mean, when I went to Thailand, which is arguably a Buddhist country, people there put birds in cages so that other people can pay to free them and get good karma points. It's a bit silly.

 

[Atlas14]

I think it's a trendy fad for young Westerners to get into eastern religions. it's a chance to rebel, have spirituality, and it's fairly non-offensive. Therefore I rate Buddhism below other relgions because it is listening to silly irrelevant teachings merely as a spiritual fashion statement instead of being a true follower.

Of course that doesn't really apply to those raised as buddhist, but I"m willing to wager most of them don't know english or have computers with internet access

Agreed. Just like Yoga is the trendy, mind-body exercize/meditation thingy amongst teen girls and younger women, buddhism has the similar "We're doing it because its trendy!!!!!!" thing going on.

 

[puglover]

I believe Buddhism is false, and so I don't "approve" of it in the sense that I would encourage people to become Buddhists.

However, I must admire the fact that even without a theistic system of beliefs, Buddhists can still mantain a respect for life and a desire to accomplish good in the world by a moral standard. This, in my mind, puts their beliefs above the beliefs of a relativist or materialist atheist, whose moral actions are entirely based on their own standards based on how they themselves feel.

 

[angeleyes]

Buddhism has some interesting features, but I'm not really fond of the whole Karma and reincarnation thing.

I mean, when I went to Thailand, which is arguably a Buddhist country, people there put birds in cages so that other people can pay to free them and get good karma points. It's a bit silly.

Every religion has it's silly aspects and followers. Look at the essential points, and then i found Buddism very supporting. I also reject Karma and incarnation but i embrace the other aspects.

 

[cybrxkhan]

I really don't care if a religion is western or eastern. I my opinion Buddhism is contradicting itself.

thats the thing I like about it... some people don't like it, though. if you want a good example of contradiction in Buddhism, anyhow, just go and find some Zen quotes on the internet.

I mean, when I went to Thailand, which is arguably a Buddhist country, people there put birds in cages so that other people can pay to free them and get good karma points. It's a bit silly.

thats definitely not Buddhist, at least for the people selling them. still, its related to what Bodhidharma, the first Zen master, once said, while he visited the Chinese emperor. the emperor had spent all this money funding for Buddhist temples and projects, so he expected Bodhidharma to priase him. so, the Emperor asked:

"How much merit have I accumulated?"

Bodhidharma: "None whatsoever."

To the emperor, this contradicted all his beliefs. Didn't giving to monks and helping temples get you "merit"? Apparently, he wasn't getting Bodhidharma's point. You can't do those things just because you want merit, you do them because you want to do them, thats what gets you "merit". Just one in many ways that even Buddhists dont really get their own faith.


The Karma thing is also at times misunderstood greatly by the West. It is not "You kill some guy, you will get killed" or "What comes around goes around". The best translation of Karma, a sanskrit word, is "cause and effect", or something like that. In essense, "Karma" simply means cause and effect. So the "kill and be killed" works more like this: If you kill some guy, you could get killed by some family member of his who now really hates you.


anyhow, i will agree that unforunately, Buddhism has become a "trendy" thing; it also has its quirks, and like every religion, it also has some... um... bad cases of fanaticism and immoral followers.

 

[Elrohir]

I am curious about the public opinion here about Buddhism in general. I've been considering adopting Buddhist beliefs (I like what the Buddha initially taught, not the various schools that came out of it) and I'd like to know what people think of it.

Thanks!

I think a lot of Buddhist ideas and doctrines are nonsense. I don't hate Buddhists, though, and my opinion of truly devout Buddhists is fairly positive. I don't think they've found the truth, and I would prefer that they convert to Christianity, but I wouldn't treat them badly and I appreciate that they are generally good citizens, even if that isn't what matters eternally.

But, as many have said here before, a lot of Westerners, mostly kids in their teens and twenties have become "Buddhists" mostly to tick off their parents or because they think it's "cool" or "enlightened" or heard a cool quote and now think they're now some enlightened monk just because they can spit out a few vaguely connected imprecisely used ideas which they don't really understand. To be fair, this is a common thing with many other religions in America, like Wicca or Scientology (Although that requires money) and the like. I have a great deal more respect for people who genuinely believe something, even if I think it is wrong, than for people who just claim to be part of a religion but really don't know much about it and only claim to be "Buddhist" or whatever because it is fashionable.

Buddhism has some interesting features, but I'm not really fond of the whole Karma and reincarnation thing.

I mean, when I went to Thailand, which is arguably a Buddhist country, people there put birds in cages so that other people can pay to free them and get good karma points. It's a bit silly.

That doesn't make sense. Someone had to catch the birds and put them in cages, and by paying them to do that, they are in effect causing these birds to be caught, thus negating any good "points" you would get.

To be fair, though, all religions have stupid things like that in them. Christianity had their indulgences and the like, so I suppose I shouldn't put up too much of a fuss if Buddhists want to pay to have birds caught and then set free again.

 

[nihilistic]

Probably the only religion out there along with shintoism, main stream that is that doesn't have a history of violence or spark controversy (unless you count the tibetan empire but that doesn't really count).

I think it is a very very admirable religion and I greatly respect it.

Not true. In the first half of the 20th century Shintoism has washed its hands with millions of gallons of blood throughout Korea, China, and much of the rest of East and Southeast Asia. And of course, the "samurai code" flourished only after most of the actual samurai disappeared or no longer engage in combat anyway.

 

[Tee Kay]

Buddhism has some interesting features, but I'm not really fond of the whole Karma and reincarnation thing.

I mean, when I went to Thailand, which is arguably a Buddhist country, people there put birds in cages so that other people can pay to free them and get good karma points. It's a bit silly.

A common case of: people calling themselves religious but don't practise it. I agree it's silly, but like in the west people don't take their religions seriously anymore (well I can't talk since I can't say I take my religion seriously either )

I really don't care if a religion is western or eastern. I my opinion Buddhism is contradicting itself.

Well you're entitled to your opinion but I don't have an idea what you're talking about so maybe if you'll be so kind to explain.

 

[cybrxkhan]

Well you're entitled to your opinion but I don't have an idea what you're talking about so maybe if you'll be so kind to explain.

but Buddhism is in a way contradictory, you know - just read any Zen quote. it doesn't make sense, and yet it DOES!!! how can this be??? *shrugs*

 

[ohcrapitsnico]

Not true. In the first half of the 20th century Shintoism has washed its hands with millions of gallons of blood throughout Korea, China, and much of the rest of East and Southeast Asia. And of course, the "samurai code" flourished only after most of the actual samurai disappeared or no longer engage in combat anyway.

I know I didn't mean to speak in absolutes it was an accident. But from my understanding even though Shintoism was the state religion of Japan, it was militarism and the military that acted of its own accord not under the name of shintoism.

I could say the same of the Indian kingdoms of the middle ages, just because the vijayanagars were hindu, hinduism is a violent religion. When I mean a history of violence I speak of one who commits an act of violence because of his religious beliefs or for/under his religion ie-a crusade or jihad where there was warfare.

 

[punkbass2000]

thats the thing I like about it... some people don't like it, though. if you want a good example of contradiction in Buddhism, anyhow, just go and find some Zen quotes on the internet.

Contradiction is only an illusion; it is not actually so. In order to fully describe reality, however, words must appear contradictory.

The Karma thing is also at times misunderstood greatly by the West. It is not "You kill some guy, you will get killed" or "What comes around goes around". The best translation of Karma, a sanskrit word, is "cause and effect", or something like that. In essense, "Karma" simply means cause and effect. So the "kill and be killed" works more like this: If you kill some guy, you could get killed by some family member of his who now really hates you.

Most concisely, it simply means "action".

 

[punkbass2000]

but Buddhism is in a way contradictory, you know - just read any Zen quote. it doesn't make sense, and yet it DOES!!! how can this be??? *shrugs*

I think they make sense, in general. You just need to know how to approach them.

 

[blackheart]

To the OP:

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/b/buddha.html

Siddartha Gautama's teachings can be gleamed from these quotes. Otherwise, good luck reading the massive volumes of the Pali Tripitaka.

 

[cybrxkhan]

I think they make sense, in general. You just need to know how to approach them.

they do make sense by not making sense. thats what i like about them. they're so... funny.

 

[punkbass2000]

In a sense, I suppose.

 

[LucyDuke]

I"m an atheist I find all religion to be silly tripe, but I've come to accept the fact that I'm not going to enlighten the world. So I find that I have more respect for people that believe in religion sincerely than those who do it as a "spiritual fashion statement."

Obviously my statement is a broad generalization but I've ran into quite a few people that claim to be Buddhist because they read a few of Buddha's one liners and thought it would be "cool" to be a Buddhist. It's along the lines of people getting into Kabblah or Scientology because a few famous people do it.

based on the responses apparently I'm not the only one to notice this phenomenon.

I think it's a trendy fad for young Westerners to get into eastern religions. it's a chance to rebel, have spirituality, and it's fairly non-offensive. Therefore I rate Buddhism below other relgions because it is listening to silly irrelevant teachings merely as a spiritual fashion statement instead of being a true follower.

Of course that doesn't really apply to those raised as buddhist, but I"m willing to wager most of them don't know english or have computers with internet access

It is subject to that trendy false bullspit, but it's rather narrow-minded of you to dismiss all young Westerners who embrace Buddhism as wannabe fashion followers. Would you apply the same judgment to those who adopt Christian beliefs? Perhaps I'm just a little offended by your casual disdain. It doesn't have to be a religious thing.

Buddhism has some interesting features, but I'm not really fond of the whole Karma and reincarnation thing.

I mean, when I went to Thailand, which is arguably a Buddhist country, people there put birds in cages so that other people can pay to free them and get good karma points. It's a bit silly.

The awesome thing is that you don't have to buy the reincarnation.

And karma is widely misunderstood, imo. My take on karma is less wishy-washy oogy-boogy than the typical interpretation. It's like evolution, in that those who don't believe in it just don't understand it. Karma is just reciprocity, and no score is kept.

Anyway, freeing birds is about as integral to Buddhism as payoff indulgences are to Catholicism.

And to the OP: The second sentence in your sig. Do your own thing, man.

 

[punkbass2000]

It is subject to that trendy false bullspit, but it's rather narrow-minded of you to dismiss all young Westerners who embrace Buddhism as wannabe fashion followers. Would you apply the same judgment to those who adopt Christian beliefs? Perhaps I'm just a little offended by your casual disdain. It doesn't have to be a religious thing.

Don't worry about it. It's a rather common fad these days to dismiss other people's decisions as being on the basis of trend.

 

[Masquerouge]

Every religion has it's silly aspects and followers. Look at the essential points, and then i found Buddism very supporting. I also reject Karma and incarnation but i embrace the other aspects.

Well, yes, of course. I look at Christianism, and while I reject the idea of a God or Heaven or these kind of things, I find Jesus to have a very positive message on the whole. Hard to disagree with "love each other" and "do unto others as blahj blhab blah".

That doesn't make sense. Someone had to catch the birds and put them in cages, and by paying them to do that, they are in effect causing these birds to be caught, thus negating any good "points" you would get.

I know, right? Our guide couldn't explain it much...

To be fair, though, all religions have stupid things like that in them. Christianity had their indulgences and the like, so I suppose I shouldn't put up too much of a fuss if Buddhists want to pay to have birds caught and then set free again.

Yeah. But it does not put that whole karma/reincarnation thing in a good light.

And karma is widely misunderstood, imo. My take on karma is less wishy-washy oogy-boogy than the typical interpretation. It's like evolution, in that those who don't believe in it just don't understand it. Karma is just reciprocity, and no score is kept.

Anyway, freeing birds is about as integral to Buddhism as payoff indulgences are to Catholicism.

Okay, well if I can't trust the Thais on how they practice Buddhism and view Karma and reincarnation... I'm pretty sure you are right, mind you, but I tend to judge a religion by what most of its followers do. If the vast majority of Thais, which represent a good number of Buddhists, can't even get a proper grip on true Buddhist principles, but Westerners understand it better than them, something's wrong (and same goes for other religions, it's just that we're discussing Buddhism here).
Because all I can tell you is that the whole birds-in-a-cage thing was everywhere in Thailand, and not limited to a couple of guys. Oh you also had fishes-in-a-bowl, that kind of thing.

 

[punkbass2000]

The main problem with the Buddhism is that it intrinsically rejects tradition. For example, in his book Buddhism is not what you Think, Steve Hagen discusses how, at his temple (which I am think is in Ohio, but I may be wrong), they decided to simply have a nice stone to sit around for a meditation-piece, rather than a Buddha, since he did not want people to think his practice was about idol-worship. Now, let's say his particular temple gains great popularity and notoriety; even, perhaps, several great masters gain enlightenment there. Then people, by their natural inclination, will take this stone as a great symbol, rather than the simple ideology breaker it was meant to be. Now, say, in order to counteract this, he begins changing his meditation-piece every five years. Then people will associate enlightenment with a regularly-changing meditation-piece, and so on ad infinitum. Such is the nature of the human mind, as Buddhism teaches: trying to find permanence where there is none.