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[Revollt]

Dear Gazebo, I wish I could finish only one, only just one game with one of your versions to end. Started a new game with 66.4 / 12.6 - and after a time there is again one specific round when the game is crashinig. Always. So again, there is no way to continue the game (see save attach).

There is absolutely no reason adding new features if nobody is able to finish one single game. The first things a dev should do is to allow players to finish the game - adding new features and ignoring gamebreaking bugs will just make everything harder. Just saying, I know it takes time and I honor your work, but this is just all wrong.

 

[Gazebo]

Dear Gazebo, I wish I could finish only one, only just one game with one of your versions to end. Started a new game with 66.4 / 12.6 - and after a time there is again one specific round when the game is crashinig. Always. So again, there is no way to continue the game (see save attach).

There is absolutely no reason adding new features if nobody is able to finish one single game. The first things a dev should do is to allow players to finish the game - adding new features and ignoring gamebreaking bugs will just make everything harder. Just saying, I know it takes time and I honor your work, but this is just all wrong.

I'm sorry you are having problems, but let's be clear: just because you are having problems does not meant that 'nobody is able to finish one single game.' I test, and test, and test the mods for playability and routinely go from Turn 1 to Turn 500 with nary a crash. Bugs are frustrating, sure, but let's not make this out to be more than it is: an isolated incident that may or may not be a bug in the DLL.

Furthermore, for you to claim that I'm ignoring outstanding bugs is patently false, and frustrating to hear. Unlike Firaxis, I have a development and bug-fixing team of one: me. I have one computer to test with: mine. When you use a mod, you use it on the understanding that it is provided to work based on the specifications of the modder. Mods are not retail games - there's no 'purchase EULA,' nor am I (or any modder) obligated to help players figure out how to get a mod to work on their machine. I bug-test and prowl the forums to help people because I want to, not because I am required to.

For example, I reviewed the previous save game you linked and was unable to replicate the crash bug as you described it. In light of this, I can only conclude that the error seems to be on your end, either as a result of a bad civ install, a bad mod install, or an extraneous mod that you have installed that is not working nicely with the CP/CBP.

Cheers,
G

 

[Revollt]

For example, I reviewed the previous save game you linked and was unable to replicate the crash bug as you described it. In light of this, I can only conclude that the error seems to be on your end, either as a result of a bad civ install, a bad mod install, or an extraneous mod that you have installed that is not working nicely with the CP/CBP.

Then I have no idea what I'm doing wrong.
Before installing a new version of your mod, I always clear the cache + moduserdata + mods and even the modded saves. So everything is absolutely clear. I even validate after that civ 5 over steam and I add after that the new files and starting a fresh new game.

With other mods I don't have these problems. Crashes are fine, it can happen sometimes - but here I cannot continue somehow. What can I provide so we can find out the problem? (I added all of my logs, are there some information that can tell me what is going on?)

By the way, I thought you did ignore my last 2-3 messages - I was just reading that you are adding new versions and thought you don't care about some of the bugs.

 

[Gazebo]

By the way, I thought you did ignore my last 2-3 messages - I was just reading that you are adding new versions and thought you don't care about some of the bugs.

That's quite the assumption.

Looking at your logs, I see two red flags:

1.) Database.log: you don't have the DLC civs of Korea, Denmark, Inca, or Polynesia, which means that all references to these leaders in the CP/CBP (which are plentiful) are going to break the entire file they're in (that's the way XML works - if one problem is encountered in an XML file, the entire file is aborted). CP/CBP requires all expansions and leader DLC to work out of the box – if you want to use it without the DLC, you'll have to (unfortunately) delete all references to the DLC you don't have. This is a pain, yes, but I had to make a choice early on in development to make the CP/CBP an all-or-nothing affair. This is a likely explanation of the crash.

2.) Lua.log: there's a runtime error with the Events and Decisions mod:

Runtime Error: C:\Users\LL\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\MODS\Events and Decisions\Lua\EventsAndDecisions_Utilities.lua:306: attempt to index field '?' (a nil value)

This may also be the root of your crash (if not the xml stuff above). I'd report this bug to the E&D thread and/or see if someone else has the same bug (E&D isn't my mod, so it isn't up to me to fix).

G

 

[jacktannery]

I'm sorry you are having problems, but let's be clear: just because you are having problems does not meant that 'nobody is able to finish one single game.'...

Just to confirm, I have been able to complete every game I have started with this mod, including latest versions, and have never encountered a game-ending crash.

 

[Delekhan]

No game-ending bugs or crashes here, though I do get the occasional glitch and tooltip issue, most of it already reported.

 

[Revollt]

1.) Database.log: you don't have the DLC civs of Korea, Denmark, Inca, or Polynesia, which means that all references to these leaders in the CP/CBP (which are plentiful) are going to break the entire file they're in (that's the way XML works - if one problem is encountered in an XML file, the entire file is aborted). CP/CBP requires all expansions and leader DLC to work out of the box – if you want to use it without the DLC, you'll have to (unfortunately) delete all references to the DLC you don't have. This is a pain, yes, but I had to make a choice early on in development to make the CP/CBP an all-or-nothing affair. This is a likely explanation of the crash.

Thank you, so I can manually delete all references? I see in the log something like:

[6146.283] Invalid Reference on ArtDefine_Landmarks.LayoutHandler - "SPECIAL" does not exist in ArtDefine_LandmarkTypes
[6146.688] Invalid Reference on Civilization_Start_Along_Ocean.CivilizationType - "CIVILIZATION_KOREA" does not exist in Civilizations
[6147.125] Invalid Reference on Leader_MinorCivApproachBiases.LeaderType - "LEADER_HARALD" does not exist in Leaders

So where can I find these files "Leaders", "ArtDefine_LandmarkTypes" and so on? Is this an sql where I have to delete the reference or an xml?

 

[Gazebo]

Thank you, so I can manually delete all references? I see in the log something like:

[6146.283] Invalid Reference on ArtDefine_Landmarks.LayoutHandler - "SPECIAL" does not exist in ArtDefine_LandmarkTypes
[6146.688] Invalid Reference on Civilization_Start_Along_Ocean.CivilizationType - "CIVILIZATION_KOREA" does not exist in Civilizations
[6147.125] Invalid Reference on Leader_MinorCivApproachBiases.LeaderType - "LEADER_HARALD" does not exist in Leaders

So where can I find these files "Leaders", "ArtDefine_LandmarkTypes" and so on? Is this an sql where I have to delete the reference or an xml?

You'll need to go through the CBP and find all references to those values (i.e. the LEADER_HARALD or CIVILIZATION_KOREA or TRAIT_WAYFINDING), etc. I've annotated most changes so that you should be able to search by civilization name to find all of the modifications I've made to those civs.

Again, however, the issue may also be with E&D. It may also require the DLC leaders.
G

 

[Valvts]

Few bugs I encountered :

- I took the +2 P for specialists in the Industry tree, it works fine, but it shows +4P on the specialists yields.

Spoiler :

- Trebuchets still do too much damage I think, take a look

Spoiler :

Thanks!

 

[Gazebo]

Few bugs I encountered :

- I took the +2 P for specialists in the Industry tree, it works fine, but it shows +4P on the specialists yields.

Spoiler :

- Trebuchets still do too much damage I think, take a look

Spoiler :

Thanks!

The specialist issue is a lua bug - I'm shite with lua, but I'll try and fix it.

I think I'll simply reduce the bonus v. cities to 100-150%, as that large amount of damage is a byproduct of cities having lower defense overall.
G

 

[Delekhan]

Yes, cities without walls are easy to shred, kind of like in Beyond Earth. I second lowering siege unit base vs. city bonuses to 100% - 150%.

 

[Revollt]

You'll need to go through the CBP and find all references to those values (i.e. the LEADER_HARALD or CIVILIZATION_KOREA or TRAIT_WAYFINDING), etc. I've annotated most changes so that you should be able to search by civilization name to find all of the modifications I've made to those civs.

Now I downloaded your current version (66.5 / 12.7). Searched in CBP everywhere for the leaders. Found as example in LeaderPersonalities.sql and LeaderFlavors.sql the names and I removed every line where I was able to find LEADER_HARALD, LEADER_KAMEHAMEHA, LEADER_PACHACUTI, LEADER_SEJONG. Is that ok?
Somehow I was not able to find anything about CIVILIZATION_KOREA (also in my Database.log) in any other .sql file. I hope this wont break anything.

Again, however, the issue may also be with E&D. It may also require the DLC leaders.
G

Thanks that´s fine, I just removed E&D - I think right now this is the easiest way to deal with this problem.

I will start now a new game and we will see - I can write an update how it goes.

 

[Bernd-das-Brot]

Yes, cities without walls are easy to shred, kind of like in Beyond Earth. I second lowering siege unit base vs. city bonuses to 100% - 150%.

I agree on lowering the city attack bonus for artillery. But either the HP of cities with fortifications (does more pop add to city hp?) should be lowered a bit or infantry units should get an automatic bonus on city attack of at least +25%. Both will help the AI which has problems with extremly specialised units like artillery.
At the moment only artillery and ships are useful against cities with fortifications.

And cities without fortifications should be easy victims!

 

[Deluxe]

Hm, seems to have a small UI bug with ranged units. No other mods installed (nothing related to the UI anyway, just R.E.D) and I cleaned all the folders (moduserdata, cache).



Something else. I managed to make Korea vote for a decision in the next congress. However, they gave 2 votes for "Yea" (thanks to our deal) and 4 votes for "Nay". It's not possible to do that as a human player, and it does not really make sense to do that at all.



I guess it should be harder to make a AI vote for you (even if in this case Korea does not have a religion, so it does not really bother them).

 

[Delekhan]

Something else. I managed to make Korea vote for a decision in the next congress. However, they gave 2 votes for "Yea" (thanks to our deal) and 4 votes for "Nay". It's not possible to do that as a human player, and it does not really make sense to do that at all.

This is normal and part of BNW. The votes you buy or sell through diplomacy are set aside and cast for you, separately from your other votes from city-states and wonders. You can do this as a human player too.

 

[Gazebo]

The UI bug is from Ilteroi's recent addition to the CP. He and I are aware of the issue, but thanks for confirming that it isn't isolated. We'll fix it.

 

[Deluxe]

This is normal and part of BNW. The votes you buy or sell through diplomacy are set aside and cast for you, separately from your other votes from city-states and wonders. You can do this as a human player too.

Ouuppps. My bad.

Wouldn't it be interesting then to add a number of votes in the diplomatic screen (I don't think I missed that !).

It would make more sense to know how many votes you are "buying" from the AI.

It still feels weird to have somebody voting "yes" and "no" at the same time, as you can't do that in the vote screen.

 

[Gazebo]

Ouuppps. My bad.

Wouldn't it be interesting then to add a number of votes in the diplomatic screen (I don't think I missed that !).

It would make more sense to know how many votes you are "buying" from the AI.

It still feels weird to have somebody voting "yes" and "no" at the same time, as you can't do that in the vote screen.

You can if you sell your vote to the AI.
G

 

[Deluxe]

Ok, then it may be a good idea to allow the opposite : buying X votes from the AI (X being a number you can control).

I guess it would involve some work, the Ai would need to value each vote.

 

[Gazebo]

Ok, then it may be a good idea to allow the opposite : buying X votes from the AI (X being a number you can control).

I guess it would involve some work, the Ai would need to value each vote.

Yeah. It'd be comparable to how favors work in BE, but I haven't seen how they weighted them. Once we get that dll, I might see about translating the concept over via votes.

G