Bug Thread for Fallout LS Mod

[Lib.Spi't]

Ok guys report bugs here

Current Version is Pre-Alpha.

 

[graywarden]

What version is this? It would be good to know as we label our reports to the appropriate version.

Attached are the game saves of the CTD turn and the oldest save previous.

Spoiler :

Fall Out K Test One Test Start Date: 12/07/12 Test End Date:

Civilization: Wasteland Tribe Leader: Great Elder
# of Civs: ??? Game Type: Play Now Great Plains
Game Speed: Normal Game Difficulty: Noble Flavor Start None

Notes:

1. The goody huts need to be redrawn in some fashion to be visible on the map and there probalby should be "less" of them on noble setting (other settings scaled from the default at noble)

2. Survivor (scout) units should have a minimal attack ability - buff early animals/barbs if necessary for balance. (Turn 87 i had my first scout death (actually 3) which was good except that the balance swung from winning to loosing. The balance is early scouts have a chance to survive and their promotions give them a chance to survive the next level of baddies... not guaranteed but should average 50/50 imo)

3. If there isnt yet, there needs to be a "wasteland" promotion

4. Pop up displays need the text to be in a darker green colored font, it is hard to see the green on green font. (This should be a high priority as it will help me spot text bugs and other documentation needs easier).

5. Play Now defaults should not include a duplicate of leaders or civilizations..... more is not more in a good mod. If the player wants more early action, he should start with advanced start and/or a smaller map until such time that the Mod can develop additional civs/leaders.


Suggestions:

1. Consider customizing quotes to the game. this would probably mean the end of the "voice" files from vanilla.

2. Consider replacing the animated leader heads with more perfect static images.

3. Provide the map option all x & y for full world maps / regional maps should be set up as a scenario (imo)

4. Workers need to be working, provide the ability to work workers almost immedietley, endanger them by attacking barbs/animals for balance. (If this does not fit the lore then some kind of notation needs to be provided. the average civ4 player will be expecting to need workers for something)

To Dos:

1. Edible Yum Yums needs a quote

2. Basic Tools needs a quote

3. Game Years needs to be changed from BC to AD or given a unique year designation such as AF for After Fallout....

Crash/Bug Reports:

Test One - CTD on Turn 97 (repeatable)

 

[Lib.Spi't]

Here is feedback from your report, thankyou for the work, I think you are going to become very useful as the mod develops :-D

Spoiler :

What version is this? It would be good to know as we label our reports to the appropriate version.
Answer: Pre Alpha

Notes:

Spoiler :

1. The goody huts need to be redrawn in some fashion to be visible on the map and there probalby should be "less" of them on noble setting (other settings scaled from the default at noble)
Answer:
Yes, Goody huts will be redesigned eventually, the current mapscripts are not complete and are just place holding for testing. I also need to work on properly defining the goody rewards.

2. Survivor (scout) units should have a minimal attack ability - buff early animals/barbs if necessary for balance. (Turn 87 i had my first scout death (actually 3) which was good except that the balance swung from winning to loosing. The balance is early scouts have a chance to survive and their promotions give them a chance to survive the next level of baddies... not guaranteed but should average 50/50 imo)
Answer:
The initial survivor has the feeling of being terrified by everything, if they achieve anything, then it is essentially dumb luck, animals will be made stronger in the future as well to increase this feeling. For the First Era of the game (Represented by the first 6 tiers of Research (which are currently under development) The feeling should be one of 'stay at home and survive' The Wasteland is a scary place that will eat most people alive. The Survivor is not really a dedicated scout, the dedicated scout will enter at the tech 'War animals' (name may be revised).

3. If there isnt yet, there needs to be a "wasteland" promotion
Answer:
Define your idea? I am intrigued

4. Pop up displays need the text to be in a darker green colored font, it is hard to see the green on green font. (This should be a high priority as it will help me spot text bugs and other documentation needs easier).
Answer: Yes I am still working on getting the balance between text and bg right, (Dawn of Man) is a good example of where this goes badly wrong as it has an extra 'shine' in the background that makes it near impossible to read. I am still learning all the ins and outs of the graphics files in these respects. As a number of different boxes have slight variations in different places all over the code...it's mind boggling!

5. Play Now defaults should not include a duplicate of leaders or civilizations..... more is not more in a good mod. If the player wants more early action, he should start with advanced start and/or a smaller map until such time that the Mod can develop additional civs/leaders.
Yes, this is something that I need to figure out how to do, I don't know where to set defaults such as civ numbers, but it should essentially be all the civs in every game, but only one of each..I have yet to learn where to define this though.

Suggestions:

Spoiler :

1. Consider customizing quotes to the game. this would probably mean the end of the "voice" files from vanilla.
Answer: Yes all text and voices will be customised eventually, still early stages. I will also customise the unit sounds and others as well.

2. Consider replacing the animated leader heads with more perfect static images.
Answer: No Many people have said this, but there is a method to my madness. I want to attract a leader head artist to the game eventually, by leaving in these place holders, an artist can see general direction on where the leaderheads are going, and will have the knowledge that they do not necessarily have to start from scratch as most of the characters just need adjustments such as clothing, or in the case of some of the more esoteric, they have a good working effect that just needs to be applied to a more appropriate base model.

3. Provide the map option all x & y for full world maps / regional maps should be set up as a scenario (imo)
Answer:
Again, mapscripts are place holding testers. I need a mapscripter before I can deliver customisation of this degree, however Fallout is based in the USA so Mapscripts will be based around that concept. Until we are many versions in and we create Fallout: Tame The World! dun dun duuuuuun!

4. Workers need to be working, provide the ability to work workers almost immedietley, endanger them by attacking barbs/animals for balance. (If this does not fit the lore then some kind of notation needs to be provided. the average civ4 player will be expecting to need workers for something).
Answer:
If you look at the tech tree, you will see the basic progression of workers, the arrive in Tier 2 of the tech tree I think, aklong with a number of work jobs, and more are unlocked over the First Era.

To Dos:

Spoiler :

Answer:
To save you some time, at the moment the current work is getting the 6 tier tech tree finished, and working the way it should, then I will go through and add 'artistic content' such as text after, at the moment the only thing to look for in text regard is bad/broken strings, if it says 'none' for instance then at least it is working right I just need to add the specific content when I get the energy :-D But yes I still need to program QUOTE codes

Game Years needs to be changed from BC to AD or given a unique year designation such as AF for After Fallout....
Answer:
I need to go back and do some research to remind myself, but the start year will be AD 2057 or something like this. Need to go back and remember the Fallout Timelines. I also need to decide if it will run as a weekly or monthly clock, I think I am leaning towards weekly. I just need to get round to defining it in the code

Crash/Bug Reports:

Spoiler :

Test One - CTD on Turn 97 (repeatable)
Answer:
Unfortunately, I cannot use save games as the current version is constantly updating to complete the first era tech tree, like I said early days still
Would you be able to tell me the key events around when this occurred? For example was it researching a particular tech? as the Tech tree is still being developed to a stable first era.

Thanks a lot for your work, like I said it is still early days of development as I am starting from scratch and slowly porting in and developing new content and it is just me... (Aside from the Forum support helping me to bust issues).

That python issue really has me stumped though...as to my knowledge I haven't touched that particular part of the code, BUGUtils....I think my python exceptions have switched themselves off again (I don't know why it keeps doing this!!) But I have never had that particular exception, so I will look into it, but to my knowledge that code is all stable so I don't know what is wrong, unless it is interacting with something I have added in a wrong way...but I am not sure what it could be. The particular bit of code is not overly descriptive as to what it does or interacts with...

 

[graywarden]

Thanks for the responses to my notes. Please do not take them as critiques, they were simply voicing out my thoughts as I went thru the first test, and were based on my work with other mods. I am not as familiar with the "lore" of Fallout so some of the flavor type notes were without having a good feel of the original game. Your responses especially in this regard are helpful for me to understand that flavor and then test accordingly..

 

[Lib.Spi't]

Thanks for the responses to my notes. Please do not take them as critiques, they were simply voicing out my thoughts as I went thru the first test, and were based on my work with other mods. I am not as familiar with the "lore" of Fallout so some of the flavor type notes were without having a good feel of the original game. Your responses especially in this regard are helpful for me to understand that flavor and then test accordingly..

Not a problem, I really appreciate your thorough work I also enjoy a good discussion and debate of ideas so it is all good I could tell the way you were approaching it was with an eye bto other successful mods you have worked on. This is no where near as clever as Master of Mana :-D

 

[graywarden]

A graphical link bug to report, a "pink" or "red" blob usually indicates that the correct graphic link is not in the xml.

this was the barbarian crossbow armed survivor unit

 

[graywarden]

Python Exception

Also putting in this note from the report. Not having a mechanism for NOT training units is a real killer, being forced to train units and being punished for having too many units is one of the worst mechanics Civilization ever came up with.

Spoiler :

Notes:

1. There needs to be a mechanism for allowing cities to produce something besides units when there are no buildings or wonders to produce. Forcing a player to have to build units which ultimately wrecks his own economy is a very outdated civ concept. If a player CHOOSES to do this because he is war monger then that is his CHOICE. In TAM we had an early city production option though not as powerful as WEALTH or RESEARCH or CULTURE it provided a smaller percentage of commerce and production which was an acceptable compromise until the city could produce something other then units.

 

[Lib.Spi't]

yeah I had planned to add in something like a mini wealth or whatever build function, the alternative is to just build and disband units.I was thinking of introducing it with assigned tasks..

I just need to work out how to program those wealth style contructs.

That python exception is interesting, I wonder if that has anything to do with the CTD issues, I will have to explore all the python files for religion references I guess, to see if it conflicts with a piece I removed. I also need to learn how to run a debug on a dump file, as I got a CTD at around turn 60, not sure why though, or what could have triggered it, cause there seemed to be no real event when it occured, it just froze..

That barbarian graphic issue is also interesting, not sure why it is happening as there is a button image for the xbow survivor, I wonder if there is a barbarian location that it needs to be se t for...not sure.

 

[graywarden]

That barbarian graphic issue is also interesting, not sure why it is happening as there is a button image for the xbow survivor, I wonder if there is a barbarian location that it needs to be se t for...not sure.

Civ4ArtDefines_Unit.xml

Spoiler :

<UnitArtInfo>
<Type>ART_DEF_UNIT_ARCHER</Type>
<Button>,Art/Interface/Buttons/Units/crossbowman.dds</Button>
<fScale>0.44</fScale>
<fInterfaceScale>1.0</fInterfaceScale>
<bActAsLand>0</bActAsLand>
<bActAsAir>0</bActAsAir>
<NIF>Art/Units/crossbowman/survivor_xbow.nif</NIF>
<KFM>Art/Units/crossbowman/survivor_xbow.kfm</KFM>
<SHADERNIF>Art/Units/crossbowman/survivor_xbow_fx.nif</SHADERNIF>
<ShadowDef>
<ShadowNIF>Art/Units/01_UnitShadows/UnitShadow.nif</ShadowNIF>
<ShadowAttachNode>BIP Pelvis</ShadowAttachNode>
<fShadowScale>0.85</fShadowScale>
</ShadowDef>
<fBattleDistance>0.35</fBattleDistance>
<fRangedDeathTime>0.31</fRangedDeathTime>
<bActAsRanged>1</bActAsRanged>
<TrainSound>AS2D_UNIT_BUILD_UNIT</TrainSound>
<AudioRunSounds>
<AudioRunTypeLoop/>
<AudioRunTypeEnd/>
</AudioRunSounds>
</UnitArtInfo>

Normally when this happens there is something not linking from here to the art files. Nothing is jumping out at me as wrong at a glance though.

 

[graywarden]

Test 2 Ended with CTD turn 206 - Files uploaded on DropBox


Test 2 Report:

Spoiler :

Fall Out K Test Two Test Start Date: 12/09/12 Test End Date:

Civilization: Raiders and Slavers Leader: Ironhead Map: Great Plains
# of Civs: ??? Game Type: Play Now Map Size: Huge
Game Speed: Normal Game Difficulty: Noble Flavor Start None

Notes:

1. There needs to be a mechanism for allowing cities to produce something besides units when there are no buildings or wonders to produce. Forcing a player to have to build units which ultimately wrecks his own economy is a very outdated civ concept. If a player CHOOSES to do this because he is war monger then that is his CHOICE. In TAM we had an early city production option though not as powerful as WEALTH or RESEARCH or CULTURE it provided a smaller percentage of commerce and production which was an acceptable compromise until the city could produce something other then units.


Suggestions:

1. Revisited from test one: being able to ninja other survivors in a war for survival would seem to me to fit the assumed lore, if the written lore allows for competing civilizations to turn a blind eye to their neighbors well then I can see that, but otherwise my opinion is that the >>>>> (Survivor (scout) units should have a minimal attack ability - buff early animals/barbs if necessary for balance. (Turn 87 i had my first scout death (actually 3) which was good except that the balance swung from winning to loosing. The balance is early scouts have a chance to survive and their promotions give them a chance to survive the next level of baddies... not guaranteed but should average 50/50 imo))<<<<< excerpt from test one.

To Dos:

1.

Crash/Bug Reports:

1. Repeatable CTD Turn 206

 

[Lib.Spi't]

Civ4ArtDefines_Unit.xml

Normally when this happens there is something not linking from here to the art files. Nothing is jumping out at me as wrong at a glance though.

The problem is not with that art file, because I am 99% sure the regular crossbowman is fine, I need to try and figure out if there is a seperate barb reference somewhere...

 

[Lib.Spi't]

I am thinking that this CTD is related to those python exception connected to BUG how it has happened I am not sure because I haven't messed with those, I am not sure if it is a python or an SDK issue, I will need to ask around the forum and see if anyone can help me decipher the issue.

The fact that it is sparking off the CTD in wildly different places, as much as 160 turns apart is very strange..

 

[Lib.Spi't]

If you like, you can stop testing for the time being, as it is going to take me a while to figure out these python exceptions I think.

If you want to keep exploring and see if you can figure out what events might be causing the CTD from a game side, that would be great, but it may be an excercise in head butting a brick wall. (but you may like that )

 

[Lib.Spi't]

ok, I have solved the python issue, or at least made it go away for the time being.

It was all to do with the line 9 parsing error, so for the time being I have just disabled that line and I will figure out what is causing it not to work later when that python module will actually come into play.

So if you would like to run some more tests and see whether or not this fixes any of our issues that would be groovy

The latest version of the mod is uploading to dropbox now.

 

[graywarden]

ok very cool. i will toss on another test or two as i can this week. files arrived, i need to set up the snyc file so that it snycs to the MODS folder so i dont have to copy them over from the dropbox folder, Im pretty positive theres a way so I will fool with that as well.

 

[Lib.Spi't]

oooh, if you figure out how to do it, let me know as I might be able to do it the other way so that is continuosly updates to dropbox, that would be very cool.

 

[Lib.Spi't]

Ok I am trying to do some debugging, the first CTD seems to be in some way related to clicking on a crossbow survivour in the build list. If you could run some test on the latest dropbox version and see if you get the same result. I am going to try and figure out why it is doing this.

 

[graywarden]

Ok I am trying to do some debugging, the first CTD seems to be in some way related to clicking on a crossbow survivour in the build list. If you could run some test on the latest dropbox version and see if you get the same result. I am going to try and figure out why it is doing this.

Just ran a hot set test with Deadomancer and a single player test and in both cases it still CTDs with clicking on the crossbow survivor and this is after loading the latest files from friday.

 

[Lib.Spi't]

yeah, this is my experience too. I am really not sure what about it that is causing the CTD, it just seems really strange, normally when an artfile is wrong it goes properly wrong in game, this is an entirely new kind of problem that I have never experienced before, at some point I will try removing the button and going back to the old archer, but I can't really see why the button art would break it, I have looked at the art file and I can't work out why this one would cause issues over any other, I am just at a complete loss to explain it. I have posted a thread to see if anyone is willing to help me try to debug it I will just have to wait and see. I have looked at the art file but can't see anything that would be an issue....there are a few small things I can try but I am not holding my breasth that they will have an effect...

 

[Lib.Spi't]

ok....that seems to have fixed the issue.

I think that the problem is there was a ',' before the button reference, and that this only works if there is an atlas reference as the second half of the button code....so new version is uploading, let me know what blows up next