Bugs 2.1 The Gauntlet Revisited

[gozpel]

Ugh, me warring with slow units? Everyone that knows me understand I can't fight a war with one-step troops

But I'll give it a try. I got it.

 

[gozpel]

Pre-turn - No way I can start a war reasonably early here with a handfull of units.

560AD - Istanbul Pike -> pike
Edrine MI -> MI
Bursa MI -> MI

570AD - Civs are building Magellans, this looks fun

580AD - Istanbul pike -> MI
Iznik trebuchet -> trebuchet

590AD - Our wine-deal with Cartage is over and I renew it for 192g and 1gpt.

Bursa MI -> MI

600AD - Sinop pike -> library

610AD - Istanbul MI -> MI
Edrine MI -> MI
Aydin MI -> MI
Antalya trebuchet -> trebuchet

620AD - IT - Portugal completes Copernicus and start Newtons.

Bursa MI -> MI
Iznik trebuchet -> barracks
Mugla library -> barracks

I declare on Chinese and move in troops next to Canton and Xinjian

630AD - IT - We lose a pike and kill 2 MI's

We lose 2 MI's right away attacking Xinjian, then we kill 3 pikes and 2 MI's and take the city.

Canton has a vet musket and 2 treb's take off 2 hp's.

3 straight MI wins for us, killing 2 pikes and the musket and we take the city. 2 of the MI's promotes to elite.

Now we have to play the defensive guy for a few turns, to not waste units. OUR units that is!

640AD - The good news now is that we lost our iron, so we better use the units wisely.

650AD - IT - We defend well and kill 3 chinese units.

I moves some troops to Chengdu, we can't take it yet but bombard the city to pieces.

Next player can choose to move troops towards Tsingtao as well.

I put us in the boiling pot now, hope we will live long enough to enjoy it

 

[Justus II]

Sounds like a good start to the war! You mentioned we lost our Iron, did we lose the city, or just the trade route getting cut by Chinese culture? You didn't mention them attacking the city. It does look like they have Gunpowder after all, that would be good to get in peace deal, if we can somehow swing Invention first from someone else. Speaking of, you mentioned buying the wine for 192g and 1gpt, I'd try to keep all lux deals as much gpt as possible, and save our cash for tech, we can use gpt for lux but not tech, we need to save our hard cash for that.

 

[microbe]

I am worried about flip. These cities should be starving and producing workers..agree with Justus about the gpt.

 

[gozpel]

Yes, I didn't think there about the gpt deal...we we're down to 20 something gpt with all the new units coming in and choosed wrongly. 9-10 gpt was a bit steep and there was no deals even "doubtful" with what we had.

We lost the iron due to the declaring and we still have the city, they attacked with a couple of units and lost and our pike there went elite.

Playing very early in the morning can make the choices rather whacky

I think if we can take another city or two, we will be able to get something for peace.

 

[grahamiam]

well, this game has a lot of "gotch-ya's" if we use our gpt for lux, then we can't save hard cash for tech's but if we use our hard cash for lux, then we can't buy a tech

capture Hangchow and our iron should come back online. build whatever we can till then. should we take peace then or can we keep going for the chinese iron? if we get thier iron, we should be able to do that deal that microbe tried with the Portugese. risky but we probably need to take a leap right now or we're going to get into an even deeper hole.

 

[Justus II]

I'd say yes, go for it if we can afford the losses, this may be our best chance to strike. Who's up next, BTW? Should be an interesting set of turns!

 

[grahamiam]

right, forgetting my duties

grahamiam
microbe
gozpel < - just played
Bede < - Up Now
Justus II < - on deck

 

[Bede]

Bede's turn in the barrel.

Got it. Will play tomorrow.

Try to post plan later tonight.

 

[Bede]

Playing now.

 

[Bede]

0-650
China won't talk and Invention is out of our reach unless we threaten war.

We can trade maps aorund with everybody, so Printing Press is known by all. I can buy a map from Korea for ~110g and hope to sell it forward, or I can wait. Decide the intelligence is worth something so go ahead and do the deal. Net back about 1/3 of what was spent but at least we know more than we did, not sure it helps though.

Taking control of China's iron means taking their capital....

Start the move towards Tsingtao with garrison units. There is no good terrain between our border and Tsingtao so any counter is going to hurt.

Start the assault at Chengdu adn the trebs destroy the temple, barracks and library, without scratching the defense. Foritfy and wait.

Portugal declares war on Carthage.

Our Spice supply dries up and Hannibal wants 15gpt to renew or 200g and 5gpt. Take the 15gpt deal.

1-660
Move into position at Tsingtao.

Bombard Chengdu again then lose an MDI promoting a Chinese musket to vet.

Mao will chat but offers nothing but chai.

2-670
Treb operators at Chengdu need an oculist. MDI attacks and kills promoted musket. Second MDI attacks and we take the city but we will have to take Hangchow to get our iron back.

Treb operators at Tstingtao wound a musket and a vet MDI kills a fresh one leaving only the wounded one at the battlements. An elite MDI fails to kill him, but the follow on MDI succeeds in taking the city.

We can get Invention and Peace from Mao for 70g or Theology for nothing. Given I have seen no counterattack from Mao it is on to Hangchow and Beijing.

3-680
Moving troops.

4-690
First Chinese military show up on the road out of Beijing, a single elite MDI Trebs bombard himdown to a shadow of his former self and an elite MDI bolts out his light.

With Hannibal in the deep weeds with Henry and since we are paying him a fair chunk of change already pay him a visit and threaten war if he won't sell Invention for 275g and 20gpt. He agrees, albeit relunctantly.

Mao will give up gunpowder for an additional 2gpt...let's finish of Habgchow and see what the offer will be

5-700
Advancing on Hangchow which shows a regular pike in the garrison and moving closer to Beijing. China drops off a single MDI at Tsingtao.

6-710
Kill the MDI at Tsingtao with two archers. Advance on Beijing shows a veteran pike in the garrison.

7-720
Hangchow collapses into our hands like a folding fan.

8-730
Beijing is a little tougher and costs an MDI but falls and we now control the Great Wall and the Pyramids. To get the iron we will have to take Shanghai. We still don't have iron as the Chinese town of Shantung controls the coastal squares between the island and the mainland.

Portugese take Sulcis on the east island and land on Carthage's homeland. Portugal and China sign a trad embargo against us.

9-740
Start the march on Shnaghai and the Sultana starts a troop shuttle to Salonika

Portugese take Izmit, then lose most of their invasion force to a Punic counter attack.

10-750
Setting up for Shanghai. Realize we have missed an opporunity to boost the production of Istanbul. There are some one shield grasslands that would do well with trees and the city is very long food.

We will have to take Shangahi for the iron but that also gets us some more silks for trading use. Also shuttle some troops ove rot Iron Island and take out the Chinese towns over there. Their cultural control is costing us the use of our iron. Salonika is buiding a temple as I don;t want to lose the iron to cultural pressure from Luanda. Bursa is also working a library to put some pressure on Izmit.

I can't remember ever seeing such a timid opponent before. China made three halfhearted attempts to counter attack, then just curled up and died. There may not be enough force to take Shanghai on first arival, It may take a couple rounds of stone slinging and rock skipping but it will fall. The island towns should also be equally easy prey.

This was ten turns of move, throw rocks, attack, then move again without hardly a breath in between.

Mao will talk and will give up one or tech techs pretty cheap, but I wanted the iron and silks for the trading and I think we can get them both.

Justus II <= up
grahamiam <=on deck
microbe
gozpel
Bede

 

[microbe]

It's great play bede!

I think China hurt a lot from the war with Carthage. It doesn't look so grim now.

 

[Justus II]

An excellent reign, Sultan Bede! Not only have you marched a path through the Infidel Chinese, but getting Invention from Hannibal through your Power Persuasion techniques was just what we needed to get the most out of this war! I agree with pushing on to secure the iron and extra silks, looking forward to pushing our war to a successful conclusion. Should be able to play tonight.

 

[Justus II]

Had a chance to look around the save a bit, couple observations. First, maybe it was mentioned already, but our three rivals on the other continent have a decidedly Industrial look already! We've still got a ways to go. Looks like our scientist will finally nab Theology in 4 turns, so I will stay at war at least that long, to see what other tech possibilities it opens for us. Looking at the map, I think we can clear China from the last two cities on our continent, and the little ones on Iron island, and that should be a wrap. Then time to incorporate all those cities (and a couple new ones) into our empire and head for Mil Tradition. Still gonna need horses for that, but that'll be someone else's war.

 

[grahamiam]

excellent set bede!

 

[Justus II]

OK, I haven't had a chance to play yet, but I did have some time to work with my second-favorite software program, Excel.

We had some discussion earlier about whether it would be worth it to revolt over to Monarchy, to reduce our (admittedly) expensive unit support costs. So, while I had some time to kill prior to playing (i.e., at work) I ran a comparison.

I made a couple assumptions to make the estimates a little easier to work with, but the city and pop info is straight from the 750AD save. The Citizen count only includes those actually working tiles, so does not include the 15+ resisting Chinese, or the dozen or so assorted clowns, taxmen, and scientist. The assumption is that every citizen working a tile equates to one bonus trade, which with our well-developed terrain is a pretty safe bet. There may be a few unimproved tiles remaining, but on the other hand, I'm not taking into account the multiplication of the bonus trade by our marketplaces, so it should actually be higher than reflected.

I did not account for any difference in corruption levels, which would slightly favor Republic. I did reduce the estimated Republic trade bonus by the current corruption rate, to make it more accurate. I also did not attempt to account for War Weariness, because it is a temporary factor. As you can see, even with our large-quantity military, we are still better off in Republic, and the comparison will be even more favorable once we conclude the war and put those resisting citizens back to work. Also, now that we have the Pyramids, we should be able to boost several more towns into City status, further increasing our free support.

 

[microbe]

Why the support cost is also 2gpt per unit for Monarchy?

Another advantage of Monarchy is it has MP so we probably can lower lux.

Not saying we need to go Monarchy though. It indeed isn't my favorite gov.

 

[Justus II]

No, unit support is 1 per unit for all govenments except Republic (2) and Feudalism (3). The MP factor is a good point, I overlooked that. If we assume that to be equal to a 10% change in the Lux slider, that's currently worth 25gpt, so it becomes more of a wash. It probably wouldn't work out quite that neatly, but it would put us in the ballpark. As we continue to grow, however, I still think Republic is our best bet for the long term, and certainly can't see Monarchy overcoming the costs of the anarchy period.

 

[Justus II]

Pre-Turn: Not much I can change, although I do use the Wealth exception in the variant rules to change production at a couple of resisting Chinese cities, switching Hangchow from spear to a Galley and Beijing from worker to settler, using wealth to reset shields to 1. Salonika hasn’t put any shields toward it’s temple yet, so I swap it to a worker. Load a couple MDI onto the Sultana for next turn’s shuttle run.
IBT: China lands a longbow near Salonika. Tsingtao-work>work, Byz complete Magellans. Um, yeah, we’re a little behind.

760AD (1): Battle for Shanghai-Trebs go 2/4, I lose an MDI killing 2 reg pikes and it’s ours. And one of our regular warriors kills the longbow!
IBT: Hangchow riots as some resisters are suppressed, Konya-settler>galley.

770AD (2): Battle for Shangtung-Lose a longbow redlining a reg musket, but elite MDI finishes him, lose another longbow vs. a spear, but a vet MDI promotes to kill him, and the city is ours.
IBT: Finally see a Chinese rider land on Iron island, where are they getting horses from? Edrine-galley-pike, Bursa-Library>pike.

780AD (3): North of Shangtung-Treb and MDI kill the rider. N of Tsingtao, another Treb and MDI kill an archer that came out of Carthage’s lands. Settler from Konya founds Denizli on the coast SE of Aydin.
Battle of Nanking: Trebs go 2/4 wounding a Rider and a spear. MDI kills a fresh reg spear, an elite goes after the wounded Rider and Orhan appears! [dance] (About time, we needed that!). Another MDI finishes off the last spear to take the city. Orhan moves back to Shanghai and forms an army, but I’m not going to fill it yet. It’s tempting to use it and grab a quick victory, so we can build the Epic, but having an empty army available when we finally get Sipahi is definitely worth the wait!

 

[Justus II]

780AD (Continued) Time to renew our Wine deal with Carthage. They must have been buying their silks from China, but now we have them, so I can renew the Wines deal for Silks and 7gpt+8g, vs. 23gpt without the silks. We are lucking out in the trade arena, as Korea, which has Furs available, is also in the market for Silk, and we are able to trade them Silk for Furs straight up. This lets us drop the lux tax, saving 25gpt.
IBT: Our lone scientist on Theology finally pays off! Iznik-Galley>temple, Korea completes Newtons.

790AD (4): Hmm, I could get Gunpowder and Education for peace, and a discount on Chivalry, but that’s optional (especially without horses), and we can’t afford detours. Besides, I really want to take Chinan, it’s a big cultural blot in the middle of our island holdings. Taking a lesson from my predecessor, I see that our military is average compared to the Byzantines, so I make Theo an offer she can’t refuse, and buy Education for 30gpt. This lets me see that China has the next level of techs, and we could get Astronomy along with Gunpowder, but I still wait until we can position for Chinan. Otherwise, just some MM and keeping our Chinese cities patrolled and on a STRICT diet.
IBT: Istanbul-Cathedral>University, Aydin-Lbow>duct.

800AD (5): 3 trebs redline a privateer on our coast, so that our vet galley can sink anyway, promoting the privateer.
IBT: Bursa-Pike>University (I think we will be doing our own research soon). China starts Bachs, good to see they’re not letting the war interfere with their wonder program!

810AD (6): Archer kills an archer near Salonika.
IBT: Ankara-Lbow>Courthouse, Byz start Shakespeare.

820AD (7): Battle for Chinan: Trebs go 2/3, wounding 2 reg muskets. Lose a longbow on the first, but an Elite MDI finishes him, lose another MDI wounding but promoting the second, but another elite MDI kills him, and we get the city, with rax and harbor intact! OK, now it’s time to talk peace. We get Gunpowder, Astronomy, and Banking for 37gpt.

Good news, we have Saltpeter just outside Istanbul. There’s another source next to Ningpo, just south of Salonika, I knew I should have gone after that city. Unfortunately, China is our only possible customer for our extra Iron, Portugal got some somewhere, but they don’t have any harbors on their new capital island, so trade is out. Re-Manage our cities with the end of War Weariness, will have to adjust again next turn when the resistance starts ending.
IBT: Carthage and Portugal make peace, too bad, I’ve kind of enjoyed watching them throw cav and muskets at each other near Izmit.

830AD (8): Lots-O-MM’ing going on, starving some cities, rush a settler at Beijing.
IBT: Beijing-Settler>Library, Shangtung-Work>harbor, Mulga-Market>settler. (There’s a horse on an island north of Carthage, which Portugal razed before my turns started, but haven’t resettled yet, so it might be worth a gamble to send a settler up there to grab it, now that we have Astronomy).

840AD (9): More MM, redistribute our troops. I disband a few regular warriors and spears, but keep all vets.
IBT: Uh oh, this doesn’t look good. Portugal lands a Rifle, Cav, and Crusader next to Kafa on the NE island! I smell a sneak attack. Tsingtao-work>library, Xinjin-Library>harbor, Sinop-Library>Wall?, Salonika-work>temple. Korea and Portugal start Shakes.

850AD (10): I found Bolu South of Canton. I shuttle what few troops can reach to Kafa, we at least have 3 defenders, but it’s 2 spears and a warrior. I also move some troops from the south side of the island, and intentionally leave a warrior in reach of his cav, maybe it will be a diversion? The Sultana is a couple turns away, but I rushed a Caravel on the coast, and there are a couple MDI and a pike in the harbor, so if we can hold out for a turn, we may be OK.