Bugs3 - The Sid Virgin Sacrifice

Reporting in.

Man, this got full fast! :wow: Luckily I signed in before, or wouldn't have got in. :lol:

I hope a Sid win in tthe WW2 conquest isn't too much? Because it's a lot easier than epic game ones..


I would also like to try some not so overplayed civ. Iroquois are played a lot, some other sid game used them too. No thanks.

I haven't played France in ages... would it be anything to give it a try? On an archipelago map the agr bonus is smaller, and we would be industrious which would help a little to gain the loss away by being able to get the good lands even better faster. IMHO the tactic SirPleb used in his game was quite effective - except that the unit amounts were huge! And the hardcoded unit max is even doubled in C3C.

Is there some way to bombard with all the cannons in the pile with one order? If not, this is gonna be hard.

Sumeria gets an awesome early-game defending UU. What does it upgrade to? Pikes or swords? :hmm:
 
I think France is an excellent choice.

* Start with the 2 most expensive techs. Alpha is a must-have; I've never seen a successful Sid attempt anywhere with a Civ that wasn't either COM or SEA (except AWS). Masonry isn't that hard to trade for usually, but still better to have already.
* Corruption on Sid is incredible. Especially in Despotism; the 3rd ranked city even with a COM Civ will have about 40% already!
* The UU. Completely forgot it was beefed up in c3c, but IMHO helps a lot at the most critical time. My Sid experiences so far are: Ancient is fine (you only play with a good start anyway). Early Medieval is fine; with Trebs and MDI, and some Knights, you can effectively attack a weaker neighbor. But then comes the rough part (never survived it so far): Either you keep fighting and attacking on and on (see all sucessful Sid SGs on this forum), or you're toast. Not even tech parity and a SCI Civ will save you, no chance to reach Rifles before they attack. Muskets simply cannot defend against the # of Cavs the AI will throw at you. Maybe Musketeers can :dknow: ?

@Ankka:
France is IND/COM...but I agree about AGR. Bamspeedy's (notSirPlebs) tactics are admirable, but won't work here:
ptw Musketeers were 2.4.1, so he used them to attack. In c3c, they are 1.5.1 instead.
He jumped the palace by abandoning the capital (outruled in SGs).
And correct, max units is doubled in c3c.

A better source of inspiration is Arathorn's AWS game IMHO.

Enkidu's upgrade to Pikes, that's fine. The problem is they must build Swords from scratch. But, they don't start with Alphabet, tha tIMHO rules them out completely.

Other COM Civs:
*Iros (AGR) - overplayed. Out.
*England (SEA) - Good traits. Good starting Techs (Alpha, Pottery). Questionable UU (I like it, but it simply comes too late most likely).
*Hittites (EXP) - useless trait (we won't enable Barbs), nearly useless UU. Out.
*India (REL) - nice UU. Looks like a good choice at first sight; however, was tried in LKendter's (lost) and my own (agony) Sid SG attempt - and did/do quite bad in both games. What is it worth to have 1 turn anarchy, when you're dead or near dead before you know another Gov?
*Greek, Korea (SCI) - near useless trait, unless we somehow manage to survive until Industrial. Decent UUs both.
*Rome (MIL) - useless trait. Useful UU - not for attacking, but for defence. With the GLib, cash isn't that hard to come by, but production, especially early, is hard to get because of the coruption. Being able to upgrade Warriors to a Def 3 unit shines.

My ranking:
France.
France.
France.
England.
Greece.
Rome.
Korea.

Seriously, I would only consider England at all as possible other choice.
 
Oh yeah, it was Bamspeedy. :blush:


Hmm... so musketeers were changed in C3C. Didn't know that. I always thought they were 2.5.1 always... :hmm: I still have a lot to learn.

IMHO France really is a good civ for this, and the musketeer is almost as good in defence as a rifle. With a city walls even a town would be propably able to hold the cavs with some arty support.

Vote: France.
 
I did do a few tests on the proposed settings and I must say I don't even find it hard to stay in tech parity or at least close to it. It does not seem hard to get literature first on a good start, but it is a bit critical to get the pre-build timed right. If I start warrior - settler - curragh - curragh - curragh... I have the second town at 3150 - 3000 BC. If it is in a shield rich region and starts the palace immediately it accumulates the 300 shields too soon in many cases unless we also have a river. It was not hard to get literature first at 1000BC or even sooner.
 
grs, that completely fits my observations. As said, I once built the MoM solely because I already had 200sp in the box, with Literature 31 turns away.

But, in other games some stupid AI in a Golden Age discoveres/demands Lit in time, and builds the Library from scratch in 6 turns :lol: (120sp isn't hard to come by with their size 12/ 25spt capitals). Cascading is a smaller issue.

So you really have to optimize the wonder city. ~190sp/ 10+spt ASAP (join Workers; no time for a Granary; Temple, then prebuild), then, if needed, coast or other zero sp tiles, even starving!
 
I want to try france too.
Musketeers also got added a small defensive bombard in c3c in addition to being made 5 defense, so they should be almost as good as rifles in defense.
Only problem with france is if no saltpeter nearby (we might have to buy it from an AI for awhile)

If on 80% archipelago, tech rate at first will be low.. and hopefully we will have our own island to expand on that should be filled out before AI can send too many settlers to us, and if they do we can kick them out.

Setting up a net of wars and alliances as we find the AIs would slow down the tech pace a lot I believe. On pelago they will build more units than they can ship to the enemy, and will eventually go over the support limit. This should first make them switch to fascism (if they are that far), and eventually make them go in a defisency where their workers will get disbanded first..
 
France is fine with me.

I'm headed to the Gator vrs. LSU game this afternoon so you may not hear from me for the rest of the day.

Bugs are you going to craete several starts for us to choice from?
 
Looks like it is France. I will roll some starts and let everyone choose. I will also use Bamspeedy's map setting if everyone is OK with that.
 
Here were the settings I was thinking of:

grs said:
Ok, I'll make my proposition. The idea is taken from Bamspeedy's "Beyond Sid" game. Though I don't think we should replay it (and it was not C3C), I do think the starting idea is even more promising in conquests.

France, standard size, archipelago 80%, wet, temperate, 4 billion.
Click to expand...
 
I'm getting Moonsinger utility. I can't get anything good.
 
Here our our options.

#1:
Bugs3-1.jpg


#2
Bugs3-2.jpg


#3
Bugs3-3.jpg


#4
Bugs3-4.jpg


#5
Bugs3-5.jpg


#6
Bugsy tries again
 
I was interested in this game, plan on following, and decided to help out (maybe). I generated a few starts with mentioned settings (Archipelago 80% water, wet, temperate, 4 billion, standard) in addition to no barbs and no SGLs. I got a river-cow start with lots of BG, and a game with two wheats, some BG and a lake. Both looked better to me than the majority of yours. If you are interested in either, I can post the screenshots and saves. Also, in the Handy AW series, someone volunteered to play out the games until 1500 or something, to see if they were playable beyond the start, so that you don't waste your time with what is probably an unwinnable start. If that is something you'd want, I would be willing to do that as well. Maybe I can even play one out until I get my first Sid loss!
 
bed_head, that sounds like a good idea to me. In my own Sid SG (DocT2-India) we did play into it for about 30 turns as well.
And, out of the 5 starts above, only #3 is borderline acceptable.
IMHO a river is already mandatory, but no fresh water at all is completely out.
So let's see your starts.
bed_head, I have 2 starts I consider doable on Sid (easy Deity win the one, unfinished Sid trial the other), maybe you want those in exchange? :)
 
lurker's comment: Best of luck to you! :) We had a blast during CTR1, I hope things will go right for you too. I'll be lurking. :thumbsup:
Space (who still needs to try her first Sid game, but hasn't got time to join another SG)
 
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