I read a great long list of what great person spawns what tech given this that and the other, and while that info is great, I'm sure, it was too dense for me to make any conclusions on. I want to move up from monarch, but I am aware that my bulbing game is non-existent (I save them all for corporations and/or late-game golden ages, which I'm sure is bad). Can someone point me to a comprehensive guide, or just give me a couple of ideas to try in my next couple of games?
Bulbing for Dummies
- Thread starter traius
- Start date
Corporations are fun, but you want to win the game before that.
Also on higher difficulties AIs can eventually become really dangerous in the late game, with all the modern techs.
Bulbing to Lib is more powerfull, since the turns you save at the early or mid stages of the game are more important then saving up stuff for late game.
Or bulbing a military tech to break out of a situation and simply get more land and more power early is the way to go most of the times.
Usually you use great scientist for that.
Civ 4 is not a game where you should think to much in longterm(unlike with real life economy, Poker Games or your family
)
Also on higher difficulties AIs can eventually become really dangerous in the late game, with all the modern techs.
Bulbing to Lib is more powerfull, since the turns you save at the early or mid stages of the game are more important then saving up stuff for late game.
Or bulbing a military tech to break out of a situation and simply get more land and more power early is the way to go most of the times.
Usually you use great scientist for that.
Civ 4 is not a game where you should think to much in longterm(unlike with real life economy, Poker Games or your family
)
klonoklown
Civ Junky
One of the most popular bulbs is towards Lib, as Strickl3r mentioned. You can bulb philosophy, paper (which usually isn't a great idea), education, and lib itself. These are bulbed by great scientists which can be worked with a library or caste system civic.
Also to elaborate on the above post, avoid Fishing, then you can bulb w/ GS, Metal Casting, Machinery, and Engineering which can prove to be very useful in the early game.
If you have the BUG mod installed, go to your tech screen and look on the left hand side, you can see all your bulb possibilities with the appropriate GP.
Also to elaborate on the above post, avoid Fishing, then you can bulb w/ GS, Metal Casting, Machinery, and Engineering which can prove to be very useful in the early game.
If you have the BUG mod installed, go to your tech screen and look on the left hand side, you can see all your bulb possibilities with the appropriate GP.
WelshGandalf
King
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2010
- Messages
- 743
klonoklown lists the two main "bulb paths" well.
I like to think of bulbs in turns of "turns of research saved" - so bulbing maths, whilst only 400ish beakers, can be a good 8 or 9 turns, which can be as many as using 1 to bulb education can be (1600 or so). It's only good if you gain an advantage from it though (eg for maths, you get better chops and are 1 tech away from getting catapults).
A useful thing to know is that the number of beakers you get is 1000 + (3*your population), or 1500 + (3*your population) for scientists. Hence why paper isn't the best idea - by that point you're doing quite a few beakers so you don't save that many turns by getting the 900 or so free from paper. Not to say it isn't worth it at times though. It's also why great scientists make for good bulbing, you get 500 more beakers from them.
No matter how I play, I almost always try to bulb philosophy if no-one else has it yet (founding a religion is nice and it means the AI are less likely to research it which means less competition for liberalism), and put one into Education (it's about the first tech that costs more than you get from a great scientist bulb, so you get the full beaker value of the bulb).
I like to think of bulbs in turns of "turns of research saved" - so bulbing maths, whilst only 400ish beakers, can be a good 8 or 9 turns, which can be as many as using 1 to bulb education can be (1600 or so). It's only good if you gain an advantage from it though (eg for maths, you get better chops and are 1 tech away from getting catapults).
A useful thing to know is that the number of beakers you get is 1000 + (3*your population), or 1500 + (3*your population) for scientists. Hence why paper isn't the best idea - by that point you're doing quite a few beakers so you don't save that many turns by getting the 900 or so free from paper. Not to say it isn't worth it at times though. It's also why great scientists make for good bulbing, you get 500 more beakers from them.
No matter how I play, I almost always try to bulb philosophy if no-one else has it yet (founding a religion is nice and it means the AI are less likely to research it which means less competition for liberalism), and put one into Education (it's about the first tech that costs more than you get from a great scientist bulb, so you get the full beaker value of the bulb).
gorf37
Warlord
Bulbing is a great example of the kind of thinking needed to move-up in difficulty levels.
On lower levels, it's sufficient to develop your empire 'optimally' eg., working improved tiles, picking the right buildings for each city, building wonders that are A-good and B-good for your land/civilization. Essentially: finding synergy and making use of it. You then get your empire set-up, wait until you out-pace the AI, then win the victory of your choice.
On higher levels, all the synergy and optimization in the game isn't enough to get you ahead if you don't find short-term opportunities and exploit them. This can mean many things:
- getting a monopoly tech and trading it around for many times its beaker value
- getting a military advantage and leveraging it for more land, or a vassal
- getting a strategic advantage and leveraging it for more land or tech (I would put settling islands with galleons and winning the Music, Lib, Physics, Communism races in this category.)
- getting a head start on an important world wonder (quite often, you need a head start to beat an AI to a wonder, due to their production bonuses).
As you can see, all of those examples I've listed work very well with bulbing. Getting the tech before anyone else is the key part of all of those. Choosing the right tech can be important, and that's why the Great Person Bulb preference list is so useful. As soon as you see: "Hey! If I won lib and took Military Tradition, I could stomp on Ghandi with Cuirassiers!" You can start planning to get the Great Scientists and peripheral techs you need to pull it off.
Hope that helps!
On lower levels, it's sufficient to develop your empire 'optimally' eg., working improved tiles, picking the right buildings for each city, building wonders that are A-good and B-good for your land/civilization. Essentially: finding synergy and making use of it. You then get your empire set-up, wait until you out-pace the AI, then win the victory of your choice.
On higher levels, all the synergy and optimization in the game isn't enough to get you ahead if you don't find short-term opportunities and exploit them. This can mean many things:
- getting a monopoly tech and trading it around for many times its beaker value
- getting a military advantage and leveraging it for more land, or a vassal
- getting a strategic advantage and leveraging it for more land or tech (I would put settling islands with galleons and winning the Music, Lib, Physics, Communism races in this category.)
- getting a head start on an important world wonder (quite often, you need a head start to beat an AI to a wonder, due to their production bonuses).
As you can see, all of those examples I've listed work very well with bulbing. Getting the tech before anyone else is the key part of all of those. Choosing the right tech can be important, and that's why the Great Person Bulb preference list is so useful. As soon as you see: "Hey! If I won lib and took Military Tradition, I could stomp on Ghandi with Cuirassiers!" You can start planning to get the Great Scientists and peripheral techs you need to pull it off.
Hope that helps!
ben-jammin
Emperor
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2011
- Messages
- 1,436
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/greatpeople_tech.php
Also, BUG mod adds two things to the tech tree screen, a list of what each great person will bulb next with current techs, and the entire list of all their possible bulbs in order of preference (you have to hover over the icon on the left).
Something that I realized only a few months ago even though I'd been playing and winning frequently on immortal for a while: you can put a bulb into liberalism, bringing it to about 85% researched, as long as you dont have machinery yet. I'm such a dumbass...I guess I missed that because there are so many good ways to trade for machinery and I'd go for it as soon as possible.
Another really important thing: If you bulb philosophy early enough that you're the first one to it, all the other AIs will de-prioritize it. Which means they will take their sweet time going for liberalism, if they bother at all.
Also, BUG mod adds two things to the tech tree screen, a list of what each great person will bulb next with current techs, and the entire list of all their possible bulbs in order of preference (you have to hover over the icon on the left).
Something that I realized only a few months ago even though I'd been playing and winning frequently on immortal for a while: you can put a bulb into liberalism, bringing it to about 85% researched, as long as you dont have machinery yet. I'm such a dumbass...I guess I missed that because there are so many good ways to trade for machinery and I'd go for it as soon as possible.
Another really important thing: If you bulb philosophy early enough that you're the first one to it, all the other AIs will de-prioritize it. Which means they will take their sweet time going for liberalism, if they bother at all.
gorf37
Warlord
Oh my gosh! I've had that URL in my favorites for years! When I already had the preference list in BUG! Thanks Ben-jammin!
rfcfanatic
Mercantilist
I don't know why but GS bulb option always offers me pointless technologies like Alphabet or Aesthetics. So, in order to get Machinery or Engineering, I have to waste time on this pointless stuff.
NetGear
King
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2002
- Messages
- 729
because you need to plan out your tech path even more so than ever. Classic engineering rush for example requires you to not tech/trade fishing because sailing is high on the priority list of bulbing. Then why not just tech/trade sailing too? because sailing unlocks calendar. and etc etc etc. By forgoing fishing, you effectively eliminate a bunch of bulbing options for your GS, forcing it to the path you actually want (mc, machinery, engineering)
So it takes some of planning and experimenting to come up with your own good path that fits your plan, or you should follow the tried formula such as skip fishing for engineering for ex. otherwise bulbing is gonna seem like its going everywhere.
oh and as for aesthetics/alpha, usually aesthetics is self-teched and traded for alpha in engineering rush. Those two are needed in the path iirc.
So it takes some of planning and experimenting to come up with your own good path that fits your plan, or you should follow the tried formula such as skip fishing for engineering for ex. otherwise bulbing is gonna seem like its going everywhere.
oh and as for aesthetics/alpha, usually aesthetics is self-teched and traded for alpha in engineering rush. Those two are needed in the path iirc.
Obv you need certain pre techs, if you wanne bulb the good stuff.
For example you need to get Aestethics, Meditation and Code of Laws to bulb Philosophy.
You need Paper for Education or you stay away from fishing, so you can bulb Mashinery and Engineering(you also need to have alphabet + aesthetics to unlock it)
Bulb preferences are shown directly in the tech tree if you use Bug Mod...
Or is this just a troll post and i don't get it?
rfcfanatic
Mercantilist
Machinery is made available by Metal Casting and Engineering by Construction. So, Alphabet and Aesthetics are not necessary for these powerful medieval military techs.
Zx Zero Zx
Deity
Yes they are for bulbing.... Both have a higher bulb order than any of the Eng line.
rfcfanatic
Mercantilist
I guess there's no way to avoid these... Both are opened up by Writing which cannot be avoided for obvious reasons.
Not sure whether to sacrifice Horseback Riding and Iron Working for Aesthetics and Alphabet or self-tech both Machinery and Engineering.
In my opinion the main things to remember about the Great Scientist bulb path are:
- Avoid Fishing if you want to bulb Engineering or Liberalism. (If you have Fishing you'll bulb Sailing, and your bulb path will veer towards Calendar.)
- Avoid Meditation if you want to bulb Engineering. (If you have Meditation you'll bulb Philosophy. This isn't so bad if you plan to run Pacifism, though.)
- Avoid Machinery if you want to bulb Liberalism. (If you have Machinery you'll bulb Printing Press. If you intend to self-tech Replaceable Parts and Liberalism into Rifles this is okay, but you probably want Liberalism into Steel or Military Tradition if you're after a military advantage.)
- Don't bulb Aesthetics or Alphabet. (They're small techs so you lose a lot of value. Instead self-tech Aesthetics and trade it for Alphabet and Math with two other civs.)
- Don't bulb Mathematics unless you're specifically planning to use the chop bonus for a rush. (Mathematics is tiny and easily researched, it's a waste of a bulb.)
- You probably don't want to bulb Metal Casting (it's a small tech and will waste some beakers of the bulb) unless you're doing a double-bulb into early Machinery for a crossbow rush.
- Avoid Fishing if you want to bulb Engineering or Liberalism. (If you have Fishing you'll bulb Sailing, and your bulb path will veer towards Calendar.)
- Avoid Meditation if you want to bulb Engineering. (If you have Meditation you'll bulb Philosophy. This isn't so bad if you plan to run Pacifism, though.)
- Avoid Machinery if you want to bulb Liberalism. (If you have Machinery you'll bulb Printing Press. If you intend to self-tech Replaceable Parts and Liberalism into Rifles this is okay, but you probably want Liberalism into Steel or Military Tradition if you're after a military advantage.)
- Don't bulb Aesthetics or Alphabet. (They're small techs so you lose a lot of value. Instead self-tech Aesthetics and trade it for Alphabet and Math with two other civs.)
- Don't bulb Mathematics unless you're specifically planning to use the chop bonus for a rush. (Mathematics is tiny and easily researched, it's a waste of a bulb.)
- You probably don't want to bulb Metal Casting (it's a small tech and will waste some beakers of the bulb) unless you're doing a double-bulb into early Machinery for a crossbow rush.
Thanks for the tips... I've got to say though, my efforts still fell flat on their face. I did beat my first Emperor game the other day though, and I did use bulbs, technically, for the first time in a long time. But I can't claim that my bulbing strategies were anything amazing (I still seem to struggle with getting GPeople out the door at all) or even game-changing. I bulbed Education 1x and bulbed Lib. It was definitely a lot faster, but I still just libbed MT, which was already a part of my game anyway. Oh well, can't improve if I don't try.
admtanaka
Warlord
A faster lib of MT on higher difficulties means you don't deal with rifles defending. Trust me, it's an improvement.
Similar threads
