Bush and the Stars. A long read but a good one

rguymon

Chieftain
Joined
Mar 5, 2003
Messages
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The Hollywood group is at it again. Holding anti-war rallies, screaming
about the Bush Administration, running ads in major newspapers, defaming
the President and his Cabinet every chance they get, to anyone and
>everyone who will listen. They publicly defile them and call them names
>like "stupid" , "morons", and "idiots". >>So, just how ignorant are these people who are running the country?
>Let's look at the biographies of these "stupid", "ignorant" , "moronic"
>leaders, and then at the celebrities who are castigating them:
>
>President George W. Bush: Received a Bachelors Degree from Yale
>University and an MBA from Harvard Business School. He served as an
>F-102 pilot for the Texas Air National Guard. He began his career in the
>oil and gas business in Midland in 1975 and worked in the energy
>industry until 1986. He was elected Governor on November 8, 1994, with
>53.5 percent of the vote. In a historic re-election victory, he became
>the first Texas Governor to be elected to consecutive four-year terms on
>November 3, 1998 winning 68.6 percent of the vote. In 1998 Governor Bush
>won 49 percent of the Hispanic vote, 27 percent of the African-American
>vote, 27 percent of Democrats and 65 percent of women. He won more Texas
>counties, 240 of 254, than any modern Republican other than Richard
>Nixon in 1972 and is the first Republican gubernatorial candidate to win
>the heavily Hispanic and Democratic border counties of El Paso, Cameron
>and Hidalgo. (Someone began circulating a false story about his I.Q.
>being lower than any other President. If you believed it, you might
>want to go to URBANLEGENDS.COM and see the truth.)
>
>Vice President Dick Cheney: Earned a B.A. in 1965 and a M.A. in 1966,
>both in political science. Two years later, he won an American Political
>Science Association congressional fellowship. One of Vice President
>Cheney's primary duties is to share with individuals, members of
>Congress and foreign leaders, President Bush's vision to strengthen our
>economy, secure our homeland and win the War on Terrorism. In his
>official role as President of the Senate, Vice President Cheney
>regularly goes to Capital Hill to meet with Senators and members of the
>House of Representatives to work on the Administration's legislative
>goals.
>Secretary of State Colin Powell: Educated in the New York City public
>schools, graduating from the City College of New York (CCNY), where he
>earned a Bachelor's Degree in geology. He also participated in ROTC at
>CCNY and received a commission as an Army second lieutenant upon
>graduation in June 1958. His further academic achievements include a
>Master of Business Administration Degree from George Washington
>University. Secretary Powell is the recipient of numerous U.S. and
>foreign military awards and decorations. Secretary Powell's civilian
>awards include two Presidential Medals of Freedom, the President's
>Citizens Medal, the Congressional Gold Medal, the Secretary of State
>Distinguished Service Medal, and the Secretary of Energy Distinguished
>Service Medal. Several schools and other institutions have been named in
>his honor and he holds honorary degrees from universities and colleges
>across the country. (Note: He retired as Four Star General in the
>United States Army)
>
>Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld: Attended Princeton University on
>Scholarship (AB, 1954) and served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57) as a Naval
>aviator; Congressional Assistant to Rep. Robert Griffin (R-MI), 1957-59;
>U.S. Representative, Illinois, 1962-69; Assistant to the President,
>Director of the Office of Economic Opportunity, Director of the Cost of
>Living Council, 1969-74; U.S. Ambassador to NATO, 1973-74; head of
>Presidential Transition Team, 1974; Assistant to the President, Director
>of White House Office of Operations, White House Chief of Staff,
>1974-77; Secretary of Defense, 1975-77.
>
>Secretary of Homeland Security Tom Ridge: Raised in a working class
>family in veterans' public housing in Erie. He earned a scholarship to
>Harvard, graduating with honors in 1967. After his first year at The
>Dickinson School of Law, he was drafted into the U.S. Army, where he
>served as an infantry staff sergeant in Vietnam, earning the Bronze Star
>for Valor. After returning to Pennsylvania, he earned his Law Degree
>and was in private practice before becoming Assistant District Attorney
>in Erie County. He was elected to Congress in 1982. He was the first
>enlisted Vietnam combat veteran elected to the U.S. House, and was
>overwhelmingly re-elected six times.
>
>National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice: Earned her Bachelor's Degree
>in Political Science, Cum Laude and Phi Beta Kappa, from the University
>of Denver in 1974; her Master's from the University of Notre Dame in
>1975; and her Ph.D. from the Graduate School of International Studies at
>the University of Denver in 1981. (Note: Rice enrolled at the
>University of Denver at the age of 15, graduating at 19 with a
>Bachelor's Degree in Political Science (Cum Laude). She earned a
>Master's Degree at the University of Notre Dame and a Doctorate from the
>University of Denver's Graduate School of International Studies. Both of
>her advanced degrees are also in Political Science.) She is a Fellow
>of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences and has been awarded
>Honorary Doctorates from Morehouse College in 1991, the University of
>Alabama in 1994, and the University of Notre Dame in 1995. At Stanford,
>she has been a member of the Center for International Security and Arms
>Control, a Senior Fellow of the Institute for International Studies, and
>a Fellow (by courtesy) of the Hoover Institution.! Her books include
>Germany Unified and Europe Transformed (1995) with Philip Zelikow, The
>Gorbachev Era (1986) with Alexander Dallin, and Uncertain Allegiance:
>The Soviet Union and the Czechoslovak Army (1984). She also has written
>numerous articles on Soviet and East European foreign and defense
>policy, and has addressed audiences in settings ranging from the U.S.
>Ambassador's Residence in Moscow to the Commonwealth Club to the 1992
>and 2000 Republican National Conventions. From 1989 through March 1991,
>the period of German reunification and the final days of the Soviet
>Union, she served in the Bush Administration as Director, and then
>Senior Director, of Soviet and East European Affairs in the National
>Security Council, and a Special Assistant to the President for National
>Security Affairs. In 1986, while an international affairs fellow of the
>Council on Foreign Relations, she served as Special Assistant to the
>Director of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. In 1997, she served on the
>Federal Advisory Committee on Gender -- Integrated Training in the
>Military. She was a member of the boards of directors for the Chevron
>Corporation, the Charles Schwab Corporation, the William and Flora
>Hewlett Foundation, the University of Notre Dame, the International
>Advisory Council of J.P. Morgan and the San Francisco Symphony Board of
>Governors. She was a Founding Board member of the Center for a New
>Generation, an educational support fund for schools in East Palo Alto
>and East Menlo Park, California and was Vice President of the Boys and
>encompassed such organizations as Transamerica Corporation, Hewlett
>Packard, the Carnegie Corporation, Carnegie Endowment for International
>Peace, The Rand Corporation, the National Council for Soviet and East
>European Studies, the Mid-Peninsula Urban Coalition and KQED, public
>So who are these celebrities? What is their education? What is their
>experience in affairs of State or in National Security? While I will
>defend to the death their right to express their opinions, I think that
>if they are going to call into question the intelligence of our leaders,
>we should also have all the facts on their educations and background:
>
>Barbra Streisand : Completed high school Career: Singing and
>acting
>
>Cher: Dropped out of school in 9th grade. Career: Singing and
>acting
>
>Martin Sheen: Flunked exam to enter University of Dayton. Career:
>Acting
>
>Jessica Lange: Dropped out college mid-freshman year. Career:
>Acting
>
>Alec Baldwin: Dropped out of George Washington U. after scandal.
>Career: Acting
>
>Julia Roberts: Completed high school. Career: Acting
>
>Sean Penn: Completed High school. Career: Acting
>
>Susan Sarandon: Degree in Drama from Catholic University of America in
>Washington, D.C. Career: Acting
>
>Ed Asner; Completed High school. Career: Acting
>
>George Clooney: Dropped out of University of Kentucky. Career:
>Acting
>
>Michael Moore: Dropped out first year University of Michigan.
>Career: Movie Director
>
>Sarah Jessica Parker: Completed High School. Career: Acting
>
>Jennifer Anniston: Completed High School. Career: Acting
>
>Mike Farrell: Completed High school. Career: Acting
>
>Janeane Garofelo: Dropped out of College. Career: Stand up
>comedienne
>
>Larry Hagman: Attended Bard College for one year. Career: Acting
>
>While comparing the education and experience of these two groups, we
>should also remember that President Bush and his cabinet are briefed
>daily, even hourly, on the War on Terror and threats to our security.
>They are privy to information gathered around the world concerning the
>Middle East, the threats to America, the intentions of terrorists and
>terrorist-supporting governments. They are in constant communication
>with the CIA, the FBI, Interpol, NATO, The United Nations, our own
>military, and that of our allies around the world. We cannot simply
>believe that we have full knowledge of the threats because we watch
>CNN!! We cannot believe that we are in any way as informed as our
>leaders.
>
>These celebrities have no intelligence-gathering agents, no fact-finding
>groups, no insight into the minds of those who would destroy our
>country. They only have a deep seated hatred for all things Republican.
>By nature, and no one knows quite why, the Hollywood elitists detest
>Conservative views and anything that supports or uplifts the United
>States of America. The silence was deafening from the Left when Bill
>Clinton bombed a pharmaceutical factory outside of Khartoum, or when he
>attacked the Bosnian Serbs in 1995 and 1999. He bombed Serbia itself
>to get Slobodan Milosevic out of Kosovo, and not a single peace rally
>was held. When our Rangers were ambushed in Somalia and 18 young
>American lives were lost, not a peep was heard from Hollywood. Yet now,
>after our nation has been attacked on its own soil, after 3,000
>Americans were killed, by freedom-hating terrorists, while going about
>their routine lives, they want to hold rallies against the war. Why
>the change? Because an honest, God-fearing Republican sits in the White
>House.
>
>Another irony is that in 1987, when Ronald Reagan was in office, the
>Hollywood group aligned themselves with disarmament groups like SANE,
>FREEZE and PEACE ACTION, urging our own government to disarm and freeze
>the manufacturing of any further nuclear weapons, in order to promote
>world peace. It is curious that now, even after we have heard all the
>evidence that Saddam Hussein has chemical, biological and is very close
>to obtaining nuclear weapons, their is no cry from this group for HIM to
>disarm. They believe we should leave him alone in his quest for these
>weapons of mass destruction, even though it is certain that these deadly
>weapons will eventually be used against us in our own cities.
>
>So why the hype out of Hollywood? Could these celebrities believe that
>since they draw such astronomical salaries, they are entitled to also
>determine the course of our Nation? That they can make viable decisions
>concerning war and peace? Did Michael Moore have the backing of the
>Nation when he recently thanked France, on our behalf, for being a
>"good enough friend to tell us we were wrong"? I know for certain he
>was not speaking for me. Does Sean Penn fancy himself a Diplomat, in
>going to Iraq when we are just weeks away from war? Does he believe
>that his High School Diploma gives him the knowledge (and the right) to
>go to a country that is controlled by a maniacal dictator, and speak on
>behalf of the American people? Or is it the fact that he pulls in more
>money per year than the average American worker will see in a lifetime?
>Does his bank account give him clout?
>
>The ultimate irony is that many of these celebrities have made a
>shambles of their own lives, with drug abuse, alcoholism, numerous
>marriages and divorces, scrapes with the law, publicized temper
>tantrums, etc. How dare they pretend to know what is best for an
>entire nation! What is even more bizarre is how many people in this
>country will listen and accept their views, simply because they liked
>them in a certain movie, or have fond memories of an old television
>sitcom!
>
>It is time for us, as citizens of the United States, to educate
>ourselves about the world around us. If future generations are going to
>enjoy the freedoms that our forefathers bequeathed us, if they are ever
>to know peace in their own country and their world, to live without fear
>of terrorism striking in their own cities, we must assure that this
>nation remains strong. We must make certain that those who would
>destroy us are made aware of the severe consequences that will befall
>them.
>
>Yes, it is a wonderful dream to sit down with dictators and terrorists
>and join hands, singing Cumbaya and talking of world peace. But it is
>not real. We did not stop Adolf Hitler from taking over the entire
>continent of Europe by simply talking to him. We sent our best and
>brightest, with the strength and determination that this Country is
>known for, and defeated the Nazi regime. President John F. Kennedy did
>not stop the Soviet ships from unloading their nuclear missiles in Cuba
>in 1962 with mere words. He stopped them with action, and threat of
>immediate war if the ships did not turn around. We did not end the
>Cold War with conferences. It ended with the strong belief of
>President Ronald Reagan... PEACE through STRENGTH.
>
>
>Honestly written, no diatribe, just the facts, simply stated. How could
>one draw any conclusion other than "What fools are they who would ignore
>the facts, worse would pretend statements of fact with out evidence?"
>Sounds like candidates for Dictatorship!
 
"Janeane Garofelo:
Career: Stand up comedienne"


Sadly though, she's only funny when she's trying to be serious.

"...when [the USSR] was a superpower, the world was better off..."

What a dingbat.
 
Regarding Bush

Educational credentials - Got into prestigious Universities based on family connections. Average student. Criminal activity that would have been classified as gang-related activity if he was a minority in the inner city, but he got a slap on the wrist because his gang was just a bunch of fraternity boys.

Military credentials - Served in the Texas Air National Guard at a time when the country could have used him in a more frontline military role. Went AWOL from said Air National guard.

Business credentials - Had several bad business deals and was on the board of companies that engaged in the kind of things that are getting Enron executives in trouble. Profited from corporate welfare in the Ballpark deal for the Texas Rangers. Was only involved with the Rangers (and the oil companies for that matter) because of family name.

Record as governor - Would not have even been nominated if he wasn't the son of a former president. Leading executionor in the nation. Callous towards drug offenders who merely did the same things he refuses to deny having done. One guy had lead a peaceful life on the lamb after fleeing a possible life sentence for possession in the 70s. The state of Texas caught up with him while Bush was gov. The main difference between Bush and this guy is that Bush didn't get caught. Did Bush doing anything to help prevent the book being thrown at this guy? What part of compassionate consevatism did you not understand? The word conservatism is on the right and the word compassionate is on the left. We know which way Bush leans.

On Cheney - His last company, Halliburton, engaged in many Enron-like activities. Also fooloishly bought a company saddled with a lot of asbestos litigation. No wonder Cheney is trying to get asbestos claims treated differently than most litigation.

On Rumsfeld - Did you see the pretty picture of him shaking hands with Hitler, uh, I mean Hussein in the early 80's?
 
you could see chirac shaking saddams hand too. what's your point?
 
Originally posted by HighlandWarrior
you could see chirac shaking saddams hand too. what's your point?

Just trying to bring some balance to the resume for Rumsfeld posted above. I don't think it can ever be a good thing to be associated with helping prop up a regime such as Saddam's. Should have used all that education and experience to make a wiser decision. You can have education & experience and still do things considered moronic.
 
That hand shaking picture is kind of annoying because it implies they were buddies of some kind. I've shaken the hands of people I don't like, trust, or respect because it was socially expected of me in that situation.
 
Originally posted by Greadius
That hand shaking picture is kind of annoying because it implies they were buddies of some kind. I've shaken the hands of people I don't like, trust, or respect because it was socially expected of me in that situation.

But if you put that picture in context with what was going on at the time . . . Saddam being the enemy of our enemy and all, it is worth a thousand words and most of those words would not flattering to Rumsfeld.
 
Originally posted by JollyRoger


Just trying to bring some balance to the resume for Rumsfeld posted above. I don't think it can ever be a good thing to be associated with helping prop up a regime such as Saddam's. Should have used all that education and experience to make a wiser decision. You can have education & experience and still do things considered moronic.

Just about all western nations propped up these despots during the Cold War. That's how it was "fought". It's also one of the major causes of terrorism. The people living in these countries are a little upset about being enslaved so that Europe could be free.
 
This point has been bad at the previous thread on the same article:

Funny how the author chose to list only the actors and actresses. What about the hordes of college students and professors that are also protesting?
 
Originally posted by JollyRoger
But if you put that picture in context with what was going on at the time . . . Saddam being the enemy of our enemy and all, it is worth a thousand words and most of those words would not flattering to Rumsfeld.
Not really, it doesn't speak to any affection. It was pretty clear come the Gulf War that the U.S. had used Saddam when we needed him and were ready to disregard him when we were finished or he became a liability... not exactly symbols of friendship or respect.

Originally posted by nihilistic
Funny how the author chose to list only the actors and actresses. What about the hordes of college students and professors that are also protesting?
Well, it wouldn't be Bush & Hollywood then, would it?

Plus that doesn't exactly lend credence to the movement... college students are very fickle with their protest movements. You go all your life saying you don't want to be your parents, and here they are chanting 30 year old anti-war slogans...
 
Originally posted by Greadius
Well, it wouldn't be Bush & Hollywood then, would it?

Oh, come on Greadius. You are intelligent enough to know that it's a world-class manipulation. Actors and actresses have more public visibility, but they are hardly the intelectual force behind the protests.

I know you knew it. However, defending such an arbitrarious comparison as valid is not a good way to support your perspective. I, for one, never supported my views by claiming that "Bush is an idiot". I think that anyone who wants to be respected in his approach should avoid that sort of "ad hominen" crap.

Other than that, and to make things even more arbitrary, he avoided mentioning the schooling of actors who support the war. To make this dossie complete, I'd like to know, for example, how much school did Bruce Willis attended to.
 
A bachelors' degree from Yale university doesn't seem so prestigeous to me, since Bush is a bachelor.
 
Originally posted by JollyRoger


But if you put that picture in context with what was going on at the time . . . Saddam being the enemy of our enemy and all, it is worth a thousand words and most of those words would not flattering to Rumsfeld.

He was a special envoy to the Middle East. It was his job to meet with foreign leaders. It's not like he was on some personal 'fact finding' mission to Iraq. I guess you would propose a true patriot would just quit his job as several diplomats have.
 
What a comparison :rolleyes: Never mind the arguments that are made, let's look at people's credentials, shall we ? I am smarter than you so I must necessarily be right :mad:
 
Originally posted by jack merchant
What a comparison :rolleyes: Never mind the arguments that are made, let's look at people's credentials, shall we ? I am smarter than you so I must necessarily be right :mad:

I think you (and FredLC) are missing the point of the article. It is responding to Hollywood stars who attack the president and his cabinet by calling them names...
They publicly defile them and call them names like "stupid" , "morons", and "idiots".

The article is not about all anti-war protesters, just those people who would use their status to insult the intelligence of others. Bruce Willis' (a college drop out) education is not relevant here until he starts calling political figures idiots. No one should base their opinion (either pro or against) on those of actors, comedians, and song & dance people; which I think is the greater lesson of the article.
 
"Facts" you might want to know about me. A long and rewarding read, just to see what a great guy I am.

I never sweat, my urin smells like roses and tastes like lemonade. I am a veteran of love. I do not masturbate, I am honest, friendly, wise and good. My beauty is known far beyond the borders of my country. I never get angry, I obey my parents. I am pious, brave, muscular. I give money to the poor, AND to the rich.

Ghandi. profession: being hungy. education: lawyer.
Mother Theresa. profession: serving food. education: ?.
Jesus: profession: son. education: carpenter.

Now, which of the above would you like to be?

Yeah, I knew it, you wanna be me.
:D
 
Originally posted by Stile
I think you (and FredLC) are missing the point of the article. It is responding to Hollywood stars who attack the president and his cabinet by calling them names...

I disagree entirely.

First, actors and actresses have the same right to have an opinion as anyone else. And if people will listen to those who does not have the intelectual grounds to actually have a balanced opinion, well, it's a problem of the modern age. Jennifer Aniston is not guilty of the fact that more tennagers listan to her than to the Harvard's principal.

Also, it leads someone to think that those guys are dumb. Perhaps the author didn't consider that many of them might have left school early not out of stupidity, but as a mere career choice. An actor CAN be smart, and have decided not to follow a career in quantum phisics only due to the fact that it pays better to say silly things in the screen than spend your lifetime working on equations. For example, I've heard that Sharon Stone has an genius IQ, but when you look at her biography, she went to college to study arts.

And look at the last paraghraphs. It states clear the opinion of the author that an opinion against the war leads to weakness and possibly to a dictatorship. What could have being a point about the wrongs in how people in America forms their opinions turned clearly in an outright attack on those who disagree with him, and in the suggestion that everyone who opposes the war lacks comprehension of the world and of the consequences of their ideas.

I really don't like that kind of insinuation. It's arrogant. Attacking those who think differently is no way to argue, and insinuating that those who did not attend to college are too dumb to voice opinions in public is an offence to most of the population of the world.
 
Whoa whoa whoa, you're telling me Bush has more academic credentials than Barbara Streisand!??!?
Stop the Presses!!!!

The author is just trying to make it appear that the only people opposed to this war are those crazy celebrities, and hence there really is no logical argument against the war beyond personal attacks against the president made by a bunch of uneducated actors & comedians. Of course, anyone reading these boards, no matter you're stance, know that even a bunch of bored civvers can come up with better arguments against the war than most of the celebs do.
They compare the top intellectual ranks of the pro-war people to the bottom of the barrel of the pro-peace people, and act as if they have found something profound and significant.
The fact that they would even bother to make the comparison speaks volumes. "Well, um, the President of the United States may not be the bightest bulb in the pack, but at least that girl from Friends is dumber than he is, so this war must be the right thing to do."
 
First, actors and actresses have the same right to have an opinion as anyone else.

This article is an attempt to show that while they are entitled to opinions, their opinions tend to be less fact based than others. I think most people already know this, note the backlash that is building against anti-war celebs.


The fact that they would even bother to make the comparison speaks volumes. "Well, um, the President of the United States may not be the bightest bulb in the pack, but at least that girl from Friends is dumber than he is, so this war must be the right thing to do."

No, you are missing the point. The point is that these people who have large voices that are not proportional to their experience are using their platform of stardom to spout off their opinions and also state that the people in our government are stupid, especially calling Bush stupid when they themselves cannot produce the academic record that Bush produced, much less the records that Bush's advisors can produce. Those who actually taught Bush at Harvard Business say he was a middle of the road student. While that seems average, remember that his peers are Harvard Business were far from average students. So, among the most prestigious business grad school students, he was middle of the road.
 
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