Buyin' a new computer

[Maj]

I've recently returned from a few months of intense labour (not of the birthing kind, thank G) with a bit of extra coin left over in my pocket ... assuming I know how to manage a budget.

One purchase I have my eye on is a brand spankin' new whiz machine ... computer. After seeing what the major silicon dealers are offering in terms of power per peso I thought it should be time to upgrade my Celeron 400 to something comparable to today's "average" PC.

Something I do know about PC shopping is that one can save several hundred dollars by taking their time to browse the web for good deals on parts, or even on built systems. What I don't know is where good places to start are.

All I need is the computer tower and and its contents (duh ). All my peripherals (monitor, keyboard, etc.) I plan on keeping.

What PC would you get with say ... US$1000?

If there are any PC enthusiasts out there who think they can help me spin a deal, please do!

And if you're a Mac fan ... I'm a computer gaming fan ... which should explain well enough my decision to take the PC road. And yes, I know how great the G5 is.

Thanks in advance and cheers

Maj

 

[cgannon64]

I've heard of a Dell that has a 2.6Ghz P4 processor and is like $1300. Sounded like a great deal to me.

 

[Colonel Kraken]

There's no doubt you can save money and get top-notch name-brand parts by building your own system (I did), but it can be a hassle (depending on your expertise).

Buying a ready built system from a big name manufacturer is certainly easier and comes with tech support. However, most manufacturers (Gateway, Compaq, HP, etc.) cut costs as much as possible using less than new parts (in the case of Compaq) or cheaper no-name components, smaller towers, fewer fans and safety systems, and many proprietary parts that make it difficult or impossible to upgrade.

If you want to go in that direction, Dell is generally regarded to be your best bet. They use quality, name-brand components and build very reliable systems. However, you usually pay a premium for it.

In the end, it is up to you.

Also note, Intel gives you more performance overall but AMD gives you more bang for the buck (generally).

Ask me some questions if you'd like.



CK

 

[JoeP]

Colonel Kraken knows what he's talking about. I hope you asked him for further help.

 

[Maj]

Thanks for your responses.

I should specify my needs so that maybe you could recommend what would best suit them, CK.

Basically I want a fairly responsive system capable of playing the latest games (not necessarily cranked up to their higher graphic settings) ... mostly strategy oriented ones. I think I'm pretty much done with FPS games - programs I know require the pricier parts to be pleased with their dazzling graphics.

I also want a system with a DVD player and a graphics card with TV out so that I can connect my computer to my TV and watch movies off of that.

A really phat sound sytem is my last demand. I want a piece of electronics that can blast out high quality sound so I'd rather just soup up my computer's speakers and sound card than blow money on a home theatre system.

Maybe I'd be happy with a higher end Celeron or AMD and a 64 MB graphics card. I really don't know how much RAM I'll need. These SDRAMs and DDR RAMs with front side buses or whatever have me rather confused. I used to know what the numbers and letters in the computer hardware language meant but it's been over 4 years since I last paid attention that now I'm completely lost.

How much RAM should I get and since I'm the kind of guy who likes reasoning, why?

What kind of video card would best suit my needs?

What sound card and speakers would best fit the bill?

I've seen a few good Dell offers but each system they offer has accessories I don't need or is missing ones I want. I'm assuming I can customize my PC ... I know that was harder to do with some companies a while ago ... or at least they charged you extra for the parts.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your time and cheers!

P.S. Anyone know of any good minidisc players

 

[Colonel Kraken]

Originally posted by Maj

I've seen a few good Dell offers but each system they offer has accessories I don't need or is missing ones I want. I'm assuming I can customize my PC ... I know that was harder to do with some companies a while ago ... or at least they charged you extra for the parts.

When you call Dell to purchase a computer, they will totally customize it to your needs. Also, you can negotiate the price with them (to some extent).

The first question to all your questions would be: how much money do you want to spend?

This is definitely going to dictate what direction you want to go. There's a HUGE difference between a $1,000 system and a $2,000 system.

Let me know.

--CK

 

[Maj]

Let`s say I`m willing to spend in the ballpark ... US$1250 ($1600 CDN) on my new system. Take into account I do not need a monitor, keyboard, mouse, printer or OS.` That should bring the price down substantially ... although I`ve noticed many retailers are offering free monitors and/or OS`s with their product (d`oh).

With my budget in mind maybe you could make some recommendations. Judging from how others have responded to this post -- saying pretty much "Listen to CK" -- I`ll have to assume you`re the resident tech expert, at least when it comes to computers.

And just out of curiousity ... had you the choice between Windows 98 SE, Windows 2000 and Windows XP, what OS would you pick (with a gamer`s considerations taken to heart)?

When you say "negotiate price" do you mean I can actually haggle with the Dell sales rep? Maybe you could throw me some tips regarding what areas they`re willing to budge on. I`m no bazaar bartering champion but I have a few friends who could cut a fine deal.

Thanks for your continued support!

cheers

Maj

 

[Colonel Kraken]

Originally posted by Maj
Let`s say I`m willing to spend in the ballpark ... US$1250 ($1600 CDN) on my new system. Take into account I do not need a monitor, keyboard, mouse, printer or OS.` That should bring the price down substantially.

Well, since you only need the actual computer itself, you can build a heck of a system for $1200.

With my budget in mind maybe you could make some recommendations. Judging from how others have responded to this post -- saying pretty much "Listen to CK" -- I`ll have to assume you`re the resident tech expert, at least when it comes to computers.

Well, only one other person wrote that. I'm not the resident expert. (This is one of the first times I've posted in this forum). I've just learned a lot on my own by doing it myself, but there are certainly more people more knowledgeable than I am.

And just out of curiousity ... had you the choice between Windows 98 SE, Windows 2000 and Windows XP, what OS would you pick (with a gamer`s considerations taken to heart)?

Definitely Windows 2000 (what I currently run). Windows XP looks a lot nicer, but there are still some major problems with it running games. Windows 2000 is the base for XP, so it has many of the same features. It is the same operating system, just a less fancy version. But it's much more tried, tested, and true.

When you say "negotiate price" do you mean I can actually haggle with the Dell sales rep?

Yes, this is what they tell me. I've never purchased a computer through Dell, but I know those who have. Like I said, I don't know how flexible they are, but it doesn't hurt to try.


Well, I will do a little research for you as far as components. I'd also like to give you some places you can ask more advice:

http://forums.viaarena.com/

http://www.motherboards.org/forums/

http://www.pchardwareforum.com/

You can get excellent hardware reviews here.

You can check prices on parts online at:

Pricegrabber

or

Pricewatch

This'll get you started. If you don't want to do all the research yourself, that's fine. I'll recommend some stuff. Just keep in mind that a lot of things are more user preference than what is better or not.

I'll get back to ya.

Cheers,

CK

 

[Colonel Kraken]

Just a quick check on Pricegrabber using some of the most popular (they're popular for a reason --they're good) components regardless of price, I came up with:

Asus MB with 333MHz FSB, AGP 8x, RAID support, 6 channel Dolby Digital Surround Sound
Athlon 2800+ XP processor
512 MB PC2700 Kingston RAM
Radeon 9500 Pro with TV out AGP graphics card
Creative Labs V92 Modem
2 Western Digital 80 GB ATA 133 Hard Drives!
Hewlett Packard DVD RW, CD, CDR, CDRW drive
Antec Mid-Tower

All of these are HIGH quality components with excellent performance! Total price? $975!!!! This is before shipping, but all well within budget. Let me tell you this would be one screamin' machine.

There is certainly many possibilities, but you can see that you'll be able to get an incredible machine if you build it yourself. I don't know how this would compare to a Dell systerm. You'd have to call 'em.

 

[Pongui]

I'd recommend buying from a local shop(s) where you can walk in months or years from now and get a free repair or upgrade installation from a hands-on geek. This way you're also dealing directly with inherently trustworthy geeks who really know what they're selling and give a damn, not customer satisfaction associates over the phone. You might also buy the parts here and there, wherever there's a special, as I do.

On the other hand, I'd also recommend you plan to scrap this computer when it grows old, rather than scheme an upgrade path (unless you like tinkering). For this reason you really needn't pay for a separate video card, sound card, etc. A motherboard with all that integrated on-board is cheaper overall (makes sense), meaning you can spend more on memory or other things.

Do you really need the industry's latest speed-demon processors? You've got a Celeron 400 now. Believe me, with the software you've got now, and the load you're used to putting on your machine, you won't know the difference between 2Ghz and 3Ghz for a long time. So, rather than spend a lot of money on the very latest hot processor, consider tangible improvements you'll really appreciate, like a larger monitor or a faster internet connection.

 

[Maj]

CK - From what I know the system you've suggested certainly seems like the powerhouse I've been dreaming of. But Sean brought up an important point regarding the exercise of pragmatism when browsing my options. As I outlined earlier, I'm looking from a system that will play today's strategy and RTS games and possibly those to come in the next two to three years. Is a 2.4 GHz processor near the minimum I'll require or does it far exceed current and forecasted system requirements for future gaming?

Also, my primary concern when speaking of power and quality lies in the sound I'll be getting out of my system. The processor, RAM and video card should be good ... but certainly nowhere near today's top line of hardware.

These days I'm completely lost when it comes to the system requirements of computer games. I remember not too long ago looking at those for a game and thinking "500 MHz and 64 MB of RAM!? Damn that's a lot for the minimum reqs!". Have the optimum system settings even reached the 1.5 GHz & 256 MB RAM mark, yet? I'd imagine the answer to be "yes" for FPS games ... but I'm not terribly interested in those. I might picked up Deus Ex or the new Jedi: Whatever-they've-called-it but I certainly don't need to be running them at ultra-eye-candy mode.

The biggest costs for components I am still iffy on will come from the processor and video card. Is there any great difference between a 64 MB and 128 MB card, aside from price?

I probably seem a bit demanding but I always prefer the human touch when it comes to dealing with major purchases. Having a person around who knows a great, or not-so-great deal more than I do always helps boosts my consumer confidence. You've been a really big help so far and I thank you again for your continued assistance

Sean -- Dropping by the local store would be the ideal solution were pricing not an option. Having browsed the web I now know I can get an identical system on the web for a couple of hundred dollars less than the best local deals. Being a student, those two bills will go a long way. Then again .. being a student, I shouldn't be wasting my time and money on video games ... eep But hey, I've got to type really long essays so I *know* I'll be needing the extra memory and processor power.

I can certainly understand your consideration of today's processor speeds and my experience with them (which is non-existent). I'm not willing to dish out the $250 dollars extra for a 200 MHz increase in processor speed. Paying 150% more cash for 5-10% more power never made much financial sense to me (Sounds more like the kind of purchase made by the poverty impaired.) This is why I'm trying to get a handle on systme reqs. I'm going to go do some research on that right away but any insights you or any one else might have would be received openly and with gratitude.

Thanks for your time folks

cheers

Maj

 

[Colonel Kraken]

Hi Maj,

Well, you certainly don't need to get the system I suggested. I was merely giving you an example of the possibilites with the price limit you put on.

Obviously, if you could get away with less of a system, then certainly go for it. With that in mind, I'm going to suggest some components that would put you in the way of a nice system that will take you 3 or 4 years into the future and allow you to meet your needs.

Stay tuned.

--CK

 

[Colonel Kraken]

Here we go:


Motherboard: Gibabyte GA-7N400-L1 ATA133/100; AGP 8x; USB 2.0; 400/333/266MHz FSB; up to 3GB RAM; Dual Bios "oops" backup. $80

Processor: Athlon XP 2500+ $91

Graphics Card: Radeon 9000 Pro 128MB TV-out. $70

RAM: 512MB PC2700 Kingston DDR RAM. $80

Sound Card: Creative Labs SoundBlaster Audigy 2. (nothing but the best here!) $72

Hard Drive: Western Digital ATA100 7200RPM 40GB Hard Drive (I have one. They're awesome!) $60

Drive: HP DVD+RW,CD-R,CD+RW $126

Modem: Creative Labs V92 w/voice $20

All encased in a high quality Antec Mid-Tower case with a 350 Watt power supply, 8 drive bays, and up to 4 cooling fans. $60


THIS would be a very nice system. Total cost? $659! + shipping. Over $300 less than the system I threw together before!

Shipping and miscellaneous (more cooling fans, accessories, changing particulars on parts, etc.) would bring the total to no more than $750 - $800.

Very nice.

The key here, of course, is that you or someone else could put it together.



--CK

 

[cgannon64]

@ CK: Do you know of any places where you can buy the parts, send them to the shop, and then they build it for you? Just wondering, I'm not in the market for a computer now, but I can see convincing my mom that we can save loads of money by buying our parts for cheap and then having a shop build it for a low cost - I figure they'd charge like $200 or something like that.

 

[Colonel Kraken]

Hmmm, I really don't, CG. But I would think, depending on your locale, there would be a mom and pop computer joint that would be more than willing do something like that.

Too bad you didn't live near me, I'd do it.

--CK