C2C - Building Review Thread

[Yudishtira]

I will have to think on those. However I am unsure how useful bone or masks would be in the Transhuman Era.

Firstly the obsolete (for both! ) is Guilds so not in the Transhuman. Secondly we still (ie. in the Transhuman) wear masks (which can be traditionally made eg. Carnaval/Mardi Gras) for parties, and have traditional/'tribal' ones on the wall as decoration.

 

[Faustmouse]

Firstly the obsolete (for both! ) is Guilds so not in the Transhuman. Secondly we still (ie. in the Transhuman) wear masks (which can be traditionally made eg. Carnaval/Mardi Gras) for parties, and have traditional/'tribal' ones on the wall as decoration.

And we still have bones

But statues made of bone are still in use today.

 

[Yudishtira]

And we still have bones

But statues made of bone are still in use today.

Exactly. Chess pieces, cutlery handles, can still be made of bone. It can even feature in jewellery. If it doesn't, it's more a fashion thing than obsoletion.

Some things are still made with the old materials precisely because there's a cheap/convenient new alternative...

 

[LumenAngel]

Obsolete is different than non-existent.
Obsolete means it can still exist but without any noticeable effect.

 

[Sparth]

Bones in modern times are using for making Gelatin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelatin

 

[Snofru1]

It just doesn´t make sense that you can´t produce those materials anymore but your neighbours who are far behind technologically want to sell them all the time.

 

[LumenAngel]

Bark Gatherer : shoul require any forest in city vicinity (instead of no req)

Apiary : should require (flower OR fruit) in city vicinity (instead of no req)

Straw gatherer : should require grain in city vicinity (instead of no req)

Sand Pit (all) : should add +1 air pollution and +1 with Ecology tech. Sand extraction at a scale big enough for export is not really ecology-friendly

Curare, belladona, Death cap mushroom and Poison's crafter's Hut : Obsolete at Chemistry (instead of Alchimy)

Perfume maker : should have the ressource in city vicinity. Old perfume maker was near the source of the parfume only.

Geology Lab. should add +2% science from Mars Rocks and Moon Rocks

Fencing Academy : Never obsolete (instead of obsolete with Semi-auto weapons). Why go obsolete so early? Fencing is a popular sport in many countries... And a olympic sport...

Giant Bison's Hunter, Auroch Hunter' Camp, Diprotodon Hunter's Camp, ... (other req mamoth in city vicinity building) : No more obsolete. Having these obsolete only make Mammoth far less attractive and disavantage civ in polar climate.

Breeding Program (Giraffe) Req Elephant in city vicinity (instead of the obsolete Ivory)

Guillotine should require Iron wares OR Steel wares OR Aluminum wares (instead of only Iron wares). Should require Rope too

Obelisk : should require obsidian instead of bricks

Oil refinery : should add at least +10 air pollution

LDS Meeting house : should remove access to alcohol (instead of Books...)

Ordinance - alcohol prohibition : should remove access to alcohol and all alcohol-like ressource.

Speakisy : sith the above, no more alcohol req and req (Ordinance - alcohol prohibition OR LDS Meeting house)
(because, seriously, HOW you can have no alcohol in C2C?)

Ordinance - drugs prohibition : should remove access to drug and all drug like ressource.

Ordinance - smoking prohibition : should remove access to Tobacco ressource.

Parking Meters Should require Car Ressource...

Polo Field ; shoul be built with Mammoth trainer too.

Press Agency : +10% unhappy from war instead of -10. News about war dont make people happy.

Propaganda Satellites Shoudld add a -10 education

Cistern, Resrvoir. Should not provide fresh water, but req fresh water... if you dont have fresh water first, you can't have it in a cistern.

Pollution (blackened Sky). Should replace Sundial, Observatory, Moon Dance, Song of the Sky, Military Airbase, Airport and Commercial Airport. Yes, you cant fly if there are far too much pollution.

Alpha Male, alpha Female. No more obsolete.And I dont understand why they should be obsolete...

Pest (Locust) : should require Farm in city vicinity (not sure if it's possible...) instead of grains. No agriculture, no locust.

Pest (Crows). should require Carcass and grain in city vicinity only

Pest (Gopher). should require vegetable in City Vicinity only

Pest (Seagull) should require Raw fish or seashell in city vicinity only

_______
New nuilding idea
Crocodile Hunter's camp Can be built by any crocodile. Req Hunting. +1 , +1 . Provide Lizard.

Scorpionfish Nets. Req Fish and Kava in city vicinity. Req Poison crafting and Boat fishing Techs. Obsolete at Chemistry. +1 . Provide Poison.

Breeding Program (...] Add a breeding program for Diprotodon, Giant Bison and other "prehistoric" animals (same req than the hunter's camp building)

Ordinnance (anti-flying pest programm) . Req Ecology. +1 unhappy, +10% maintenance. Replace Pests (Crow), Pest (Pigeons) and Pest (Seagull)

 

[Yudishtira]

Some good ideas so don't wish to be discouraging but...

Bark Gatherer : shoul require any forest in city vicinity (instead of no req)

Agree. Good idea.

Apiary : should require (flower OR fruit) in city vicinity (instead of no req)

Straw gatherer : should require grain in city vicinity (instead of no req)

Sand Pit (all) : should add +1 air pollution and +1 with Ecology tech. Sand extraction at a scale big enough for export is not really ecology-friendly

Apiary: yeah but flowers are stupidly/crazily rare currently. Since flowers are realistically everywhere (correct me if I'm wrong), this requirement won't work, although that would change if flowers were fixed!!!.

Straw gatherer: isn't straw just dry grass?

Sand pit: that's fairly true of 20th-21st century 'export', but would not apply to trade between two size 5 cities in the Ancient or whatever. If there was air pollution it probably belongs with Steam Power or something which probably has enough pollution already.

Cistern, Resrvoir. Should not provide fresh water, but req fresh water... if you dont have fresh water first, you can't have it in a cistern.

Fresh water falls from the sky, everywhere that's not desert. You have it if you catch it.

Pest (Locust) : should require Farm in city vicinity (not sure if it's possible...) instead of grains. No agriculture, no locust.

Are you saying locusts don't swarm without crops? Interesting theory - but is it true? If not, locusts will destroy your plant resources whether or not they are farmed.

 

[Yudishtira]

It just doesn´t make sense that you can´t produce those materials anymore but your neighbours who are far behind technologically want to sell them all the time.

And the price has gone up btw!

In my game, Bone seems to have completely disappeared. Even the new one-city civs born in the last century must already have Guilds. The Capuchin Crypt (I was already in late Renaissance when I got v33/SVN) is completely unbuildable.

I shall have to beeline nukes in the hope of bombing someone back into the stonebone age...

 

[Yudishtira]

I will have to think on those. However I am unsure how useful bone or masks would be in the Transhuman Era.

I'm not looking forward to doing the work, but - while I'm here - I'm hoping you've thunk all the same...

 

[LumenAngel]

Apiary: yeah but flowers are stupidly/crazily rare currently. Since flowers are realistically everywhere (correct me if I'm wrong), this requirement won't work, although that would change if flowers were fixed!!!.

Flower are a little rare, but fruit are note. All cities wont have an apiary anymore, but all little civ will still have at least 1 apiary somewhere.

Straw gatherer: isn't straw just dry grass?

Straw is an agricultural by-product, the dry stalks of cereal plants, after the grain and chaff have been removed (ty wikipedia).
So, or the straw gatherer is remove, and building providing grain provide straw too, or they are a req for straw gatherer.

Sand pit: that's fairly true of 20th-21st century 'export', but would not apply to trade between two size 5 cities in the Ancient or whatever. If there was air pollution it probably belongs with Steam Power or something which probably has enough pollution already.

So maybe maje them obsolete in modern era and having the Modern sand pit for later...
My gola was more to limit the number of sand ressurce. We often have too much sand ressource, maling them a non-element.

Fresh water falls from the sky, everywhere that's not desert. You have it if you catch it.

In my last game, the random give me a near Scared Land planet (50% desert-like terrain). And being avble to build all these "provide fresh water" building was strange.
Maybe add the need of fresh water or any high-vegetation terrain? If there are lot of vegetation, that means there are lot of rains...

Are you saying locusts don't swarm without crops? Interesting theory - but is it true? If not, locusts will destroy your plant resources whether or not they are farmed.

So req any plant resource in city vicinit instead?
If there are nothing to devast, there are no locust swarm...

 

[Yudishtira]

In my last game, the random give me a near Scared Land planet (50% desert-like terrain). And being avble to build all these "provide fresh water" building was strange.
Maybe add the need of fresh water or any high-vegetation terrain? If there are lot of vegetation, that means there are lot of rains...

Any terrain other than the three arid ones should imo be considered to receive adequate precipitation (in whatever form) for cistern/reservoir collecting. Barren, rocky etc. are infertile for other reasons (eg. lack of minerals).

 

[BlueGenie]

Apiary : should require (flower OR fruit) in city vicinity (instead of no req)

Press Agency : +10% unhappy from war instead of -10. News about war dont make people happy.

Cistern, Resrvoir. Should not provide fresh water, but req fresh water... if you dont have fresh water first, you can't have it in a cistern.

Apiary: Non resource flowers abound and still need bees for pollenation. Just because some special flowers are resources doesn't mean that non-resource flowers don't exist.

Press Agency: Even if war news is disheartening it's still a lot better than no news at all and news can and often is manipulated to make thing appear better than they really are.
Also consider that it doesn't make people happy, it makes people less UNhappy, like instead of 100 crying there's only 90 crying. Making it +10% would make it 110 crying instead.

Cistern Reservoir: "If you build it it will come". No, seriously, you build a reservior of some kind and we can TRANSPORT fresh water there so the city has a fresh supply, with other words supplying fresh water to the city. Of course the tank/pool/whatever will have to be constantly filled but it sure beats having to travel to the nearest lake to get water. Filling can be done in several ways, water pipes, aqueducts, big barrels transporting it, pumps drawing water from the groundwater wells, lorrys, trains, but how it's done matters less than the effect of a filled cistern as it does, once filled, provide fresh water.

Cheers

EDIT: While I am posting in buildings discussion:
Excrement Holes, Outhouse: +1 UNhappy. Whaaat??? Since when does moving the stench from poop away from living areas make people more unhappy? Shouldn't it be that they were unhappy when excrement stunk all over and realize this and be more happy once excrement holes covered it, and outhouses moved the stench away a bit?

Cheers

 

[Hydromancerx]

Bark Gatherer : shoul require any forest in city vicinity (instead of no req)

Apiary : should require (flower OR fruit) in city vicinity (instead of no req)

Straw gatherer : should require grain in city vicinity (instead of no req)

Sand Pit (all) : should add +1 air pollution and +1 with Ecology tech. Sand extraction at a scale big enough for export is not really ecology-friendly

Curare, belladona, Death cap mushroom and Poison's crafter's Hut : Obsolete at Chemistry (instead of Alchimy)

Perfume maker : should have the ressource in city vicinity. Old perfume maker was near the source of the parfume only.

Geology Lab. should add +2% science from Mars Rocks and Moon Rocks

Fencing Academy : Never obsolete (instead of obsolete with Semi-auto weapons). Why go obsolete so early? Fencing is a popular sport in many countries... And a olympic sport...

Giant Bison's Hunter, Auroch Hunter' Camp, Diprotodon Hunter's Camp, ... (other req mamoth in city vicinity building) : No more obsolete. Having these obsolete only make Mammoth far less attractive and disavantage civ in polar climate.

Breeding Program (Giraffe) Req Elephant in city vicinity (instead of the obsolete Ivory)

Guillotine should require Iron wares OR Steel wares OR Aluminum wares (instead of only Iron wares). Should require Rope too

Obelisk : should require obsidian instead of bricks

Oil refinery : should add at least +10 air pollution

LDS Meeting house : should remove access to alcohol (instead of Books...)

Ordinance - alcohol prohibition : should remove access to alcohol and all alcohol-like ressource.

Speakisy : sith the above, no more alcohol req and req (Ordinance - alcohol prohibition OR LDS Meeting house)
(because, seriously, HOW you can have no alcohol in C2C?)

Ordinance - drugs prohibition : should remove access to drug and all drug like ressource.

Ordinance - smoking prohibition : should remove access to Tobacco ressource.

Parking Meters Should require Car Ressource...

Polo Field ; shoul be built with Mammoth trainer too.

Press Agency : +10% unhappy from war instead of -10. News about war dont make people happy.

Propaganda Satellites Shoudld add a -10 education

Cistern, Resrvoir. Should not provide fresh water, but req fresh water... if you dont have fresh water first, you can't have it in a cistern.

Pollution (blackened Sky). Should replace Sundial, Observatory, Moon Dance, Song of the Sky, Military Airbase, Airport and Commercial Airport. Yes, you cant fly if there are far too much pollution.

Alpha Male, alpha Female. No more obsolete.And I dont understand why they should be obsolete...

Pest (Locust) : should require Farm in city vicinity (not sure if it's possible...) instead of grains. No agriculture, no locust.

Pest (Crows). should require Carcass and grain in city vicinity only

Pest (Gopher). should require vegetable in City Vicinity only

Pest (Seagull) should require Raw fish or seashell in city vicinity only

1. But there are trees and shrubs in all types of biomes such as jungle, savanna and even in the desert and tundra.

2. No, bees are too common, there are TONS of flowering plants and trees that they can use instead. In fact the flowers of Apple Trees make for great honey.

3. This is already covered by Hay resource.

4. Maybe as an upgrade but not that that basic building.

5. I will have to look into that.

6. They require buildings so they indirectly require a vicinity. But not always.

7. Already covered with the Astrogeology Lab. (I think)

8. I will have to think on that. It gives an xp bonus. And if there are no more Melee units left, then what's the use? Then again its a left over from the Sports mod. So it may need updating.

9. These go extinct so they have to go obsolete.

10. Not mine so not going to comment.

11. It gets replaced before Steel and/or Aluminum so no ue having them.

12. Obsidian? What!? If anything they were made of Sandstone.

13. Have to look into this.

14. Not my building.

15. That's the thing it removed the buildings but not the resources. So you can still build Speak Easys have hve black market alcohol. Eliminating the resouce compltly would ruin that.

16. Explained above.

17. Same as #15.

18. Same as #15.

19. Agree? Maybe.

20. I thought it did.

21. You sure about those stats?

22. Aren't they?

23. Disagree.

24. Good Idea.

25. Not my buildings.

26. Disagree since Locust could still ruin your seed camps.

27. Why AND? Either should do.

28. Meh.

29. Also Meh. Rather have Pests easy to get than not.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Good review H!

 

[climat]

2. No, bees are too common, there are TONS of flowering plants and trees that they can use instead. In fact the flowers of Apple Trees make for great honey.

Silk vicinity prerequisite should not be required for bug buildings in that logic, shouldn't it?
I know they are not the buildings made by you but, if I remember correctly, you agreed about the prerequisite.

 

[LumenAngel]

2. No, bees are too common, there are TONS of flowering plants and trees that they can use instead. In fact the flowers of Apple Trees make for great honey.

But Apple Orchads will provide Fruit ressoure, and so, you will be able to build it I saif Flower OR Fruit
And +1 with climat. With this reasoninfg, I should have at least some 40 lizards and bugs Ressource. I think having an Apiary building is not like having 10 beehive in your cities for locals, but having many hundreds or thousands beehive for exportations.

6. They require buildings so they indirectly require a vicinity. But not always.

Not in this case. Parfume maker is buildable in all my cities...

9. These go extinct so they have to go obsolete.

So, Mammoth have to go extinct too... If mammoth survive, all things link to ammotth have to survvie too...

11. It gets replaced before Steel and/or Aluminum so no ue having them.

(about Guillotine) Replace, but not obsolete. And the replacment is not so easy to build...

12. Obsidian? What!? If anything they were made of Sandstone.

In all video games, oelisk are made from obsidian...

15. That's the thing it removed the buildings but not the resources. So you can still build Speak Easys have hve black market alcohol. Eliminating the resouce compltly would ruin that.

But today, thes ordinnance nearly remove all avantage about these ressource, and you keep all the unhealthy from the ressource. And you have to pay for that...

21. You sure about those stats?

22. Aren't they?

I looked on sevopedia, not the actual effect in game. But I think there are no bug for these stats

29. Also Meh. Rather have Pests easy to get than not.

[/quote]
Today, pests are just an annoying malus you can't fight, unlike Crime, Disease and Pollution.
I don't understan why in a city, Seagull come just because I import raw fish or why there are crow while my only cereals are imported

 

[Hydromancerx]

@LumenAngel

I pushed to the SVN a bunch of your suggestions. Thanks again for the feedback.

 

[LumenAngel]

Yeah!
So, the part 2


Starfort. Should not replace Citadel. Star fort replace Castle and Citadel but provide less bonus than these 2 building together

Harems. Harems are wifes and sex slaves of a powerful man. The building os obsolete at Theology, but in reality, harems still exists in some muslims country. Maybe just rename the building?

Insect manipulating Lab. Should require Bugs ressource.

Mercantilism Bonus These building require the Ore resource. Should require the Lingot ressource

Money Press. Should require at least Paper ressource. Maybe Dye ressource too. And this building cost farr too much for his effect! It cost as much as a factory...

Nature Dance. Turn a citizen into Celebrity doesn't work. And a prehistoric celebrity?

Nature Legacy. Because there are (in C2C) a Barley god, should have a +5% food with barley

Capital Administration. Shouldn't be a National Wonder because he can be built only in capital

Spirit Legacy. Shold provide +3% food from bison, cow, deer, pig, sheep, rabbit, seal and walrus to be as powerful as nature Legacy

Theatre. Should not be obsolete. I often go to theatre, and it's still popular today... Maybe replaced by Virtual Reality Theater instead.

Virtual Reality Theate. Should provide more culture than +5.

Clay Pit. Require River in city vicinity instead of fresh water. Because many building provide fresh water, you can have this building everywhere. And some pipe dont create clay

Servants Quarters Should require Housing (Villas, Manors or Mansion) instead of Palace or Castle. In C2C Castle is too much military oriented and luxe housing are maybe a better prereq.

Apprentice workshop. +10% maintenance instead of -3% gold. In many cities, these free specialist are enough to counter the cost. In modern era, I m still in Apprenticeship civics just because of this building.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Yeah!
So, the part 2
Nature Dance. Turn a citizen into Celebrity doesn't work. And a prehistoric celebrity?

Nature Legacy. Because there are (in C2C) a Barley god, should have a +5% food with barley

Capital Administration. Shouldn't be a National Wonder because he can be built only in capital

Spirit Legacy. Shold provide +3% food from bison, cow, deer, pig, sheep, rabbit, seal and walrus to be as powerful as nature Legacy

Nature Dance. As far as I can see the Celebrity can only be settled. This should be changed to artist perhaps.

Nature Legacy. Done.

Capital Administration. agreed

Spirit Legacy. only if I reduce the temple and monastery values to 3% as well.