C2C - Building Review Thread

[Hydromancerx]

Yeah!
So, the part 2


Starfort. Should not replace Citadel. Star fort replace Castle and Citadel but provide less bonus than these 2 building together

Harems. Harems are wifes and sex slaves of a powerful man. The building os obsolete at Theology, but in reality, harems still exists in some muslims country. Maybe just rename the building?

Insect manipulating Lab. Should require Bugs ressource.

Mercantilism Bonus These building require the Ore resource. Should require the Lingot ressource

Money Press. Should require at least Paper ressource. Maybe Dye ressource too. And this building cost farr too much for his effect! It cost as much as a factory...

Nature Dance. Turn a citizen into Celebrity doesn't work. And a prehistoric celebrity?

Nature Legacy. Because there are (in C2C) a Barley god, should have a +5% food with barley

Capital Administration. Shouldn't be a National Wonder because he can be built only in capital

Spirit Legacy. Shold provide +3% food from bison, cow, deer, pig, sheep, rabbit, seal and walrus to be as powerful as nature Legacy

Theatre. Should not be obsolete. I often go to theatre, and it's still popular today... Maybe replaced by Virtual Reality Theater instead.

Virtual Reality Theate. Should provide more culture than +5.

Clay Pit. Require River in city vicinity instead of fresh water. Because many building provide fresh water, you can have this building everywhere. And some pipe dont create clay

Servants Quarters Should require Housing (Villas, Manors or Mansion) instead of Palace or Castle. In C2C Castle is too much military oriented and luxe housing are maybe a better prereq.

Apprentice workshop. +10% maintenance instead of -3% gold. In many cities, these free specialist are enough to counter the cost. In modern era, I m still in Apprenticeship civics just because of this building.

1. This has been a hard one ever since the starfort was added. On the one hand I could see how it should not replace, but on the other hand I am not sure how realsitic it is to have Citadel on a Starfort.

2. Not mine. Its one of MrAzures added on stuff. I personally though we had enough with the Brothels. But I think it upgrades into a Brothel so it seems to work.

3. Not mine but agree.

4 Not mine so not sure what they do.

5. Not mine but also agree.

6. Not mine but also agree.

7. Not mine.

8. No because we did not want it to take up a National Wonder slot.

9. Not mine.

10. I think this obsolste is left over from AND/RoM.

11. Ideas on how much?

12. I thought it did require rivers.

13. But many servants typically lived within a Castle/Palace too. Thus I disagree with the house requirement.

14. I will have to think on that one.

 

[Harrier]

13. But many servants typically lived within a Castle/Palace too. Thus I disagree with the house requirement.

In the UK in the 1800s and early 1900s many upper middle class and upper class families had servants and they lived in large houses not castles/palaces. These servants sleeping quarters were usually in the attic or basement.

Think of the old TV show "The Forsyte Saga".

Even in the 1970s a friend of mine who worked in Africa and rented a small house, still had (technically) 3 servants (who did not live in.) One did the cooking, one housekeeping and the other gardening and odd jobs. They were payed a weekly rate (so could be considered employed.), but they only worked for him.


Palaces and castles are OK in the main up the Renaissance era. But even then some Lords who lived in Manor Houses would have had servants.

 

[LumenAngel]

11. Ideas on how much?

If Virtual Reality Theate replaces Theatre, at least +6 (bonus from theatre with all technology). So I would say +8

 

[Hydromancerx]

In the UK in the 1800s and early 1900s many upper middle class and upper class families had servants and they lived in large houses not castles/palaces. These servants sleeping quarters were usually in the attic or basement.

Think of the old TV show "The Forsyte Saga".

Even in the 1970s a friend of mine who worked in Africa and rented a small house, still had (technically) 3 servants (who did not live in.) One did the cooking, one housekeeping and the other gardening and odd jobs. They were payed a weekly rate (so could be considered employed.), but they only worked for him.


Palaces and castles are OK in the main up the Renaissance era. But even then some Lords who lived in Manor Houses would have had servants.

I am not saying that they cannot have servants come from outside the castle/palace but this building is specially for servant housing inside a Castle and/or Palace.

 

[LumenAngel]

Spirit Legacy. only if I reduce the temple and monastery values to 3% as well.

Sound nice because nearly all animal ressource are in city vicinity with some buildings.

 

[JosEPh_II]

@hydro,

<BuildingType>BUILDING_CRIME_SOLICITING</BuildingType>
			     		<iMinValue>1</iMinValue>
			     		<iMaxValue>100000</iMaxValue>

Why does this crime building have a minvalue of 1, all others have a higher minvalue. And "soliciting" was not a early era crime.

<BuildingType>BUILDING_CRIME_FLASHING</BuildingType>
			     		<iMinValue>42</iMinValue>
			     		<iMaxValue>100000</iMaxValue>

And this one does not follow the pattern of multiples of 5. Flashing is also a modern day event and should have a much higher value so that it's effects come into effect in the late eras.

<BuildingType>BUILDING_CRIME_DRUNKDRIVING</BuildingType>
			     		<iMinValue>50</iMinValue>
			     		<iMaxValue>100000</iMaxValue>

Another one that is a modern day crime and needs a higher minvalue. I don't recall any drunk driving charges being filled against Gilgamesh's Charioteers when they got drunk and raced their chariots down the streets after a victory. Do you?

JosEPh

 

[LumenAngel]

Early crime can have high crime value and modern low crime value...
Just look Crime (murder) or Crime (rape)

 

[BlueGenie]

I still consider crime seperate from legality. Just because something wasn't illegal doesn't mean it didn't have a detrimental effect in the society.

Flashing, just as an example, has only become illegal lately (modern) but I can imagine society ladies in earlier times, even to much earlier times, being exposed and having their men hunt down and teach this flasher a lesson or two. This effect would take away these men from other things, maybe even having them kill the offender, thus creating an effect long before it had a fully legal consequence.
Though I can imagine the effect staggering up once legality comes into the picture. People worrying about flashing sex offenders and chosing other neighbourhoods to live in for instance.

Other things have a lot higher effect than flashing, of course, but were not illegal until way after they were first performed. Drunk driving for instance, though possibly more resulting in injuries it would probably still induce unhappiness in the populace where chariot drivers, or horse riders, drunkenly disregarded general safety.

Cheers

 

[JosEPh_II]

Early crime can have high crime value and modern low crime value...
Just look Crime (murder) or Crime (rape)

I have been. That's why I brought these up.

These minvalues determine how Quickly the "crime" gets added in the calculations for the current crime level in your game. Not their "crime level" whether it's a major or minor crime and that's what is wrong.

@BG,
Same answer, not concerned about "legality" vs 'crime" but rather how quickly the various crimes get added in, because that's what these minvalues do. They Do Not represent the severity or lack of, as most ppl think.

JosEPh

 

[Thunderbrd]

I have been. That's why I brought these up.

These minvalues determine how Quickly the "crime" gets added in the calculations for the current crime level in your game. Not their "crime level" whether it's a major or minor crime and that's what is wrong.

@BG,
Same answer, not concerned about "legality" vs 'crime" but rather how quickly the various crimes get added in, because that's what these minvalues do. They Do Not represent the severity or lack of, as most ppl think.

JosEPh

You make a good point that the likelihood of a crime becoming prevalent enough to be recognized as a 'problem the city is having' and the severity of the crime may well in reality follow two very different evaluations. However, I figured I'd pause to state the obvious point here that for the sake of the fact that this is a game it appears Hydro has arranged both considerations to be equivalent. Thus, from a game playing perspective, the more you allow the crime level to be out of control the more severe the penalties thus although the two considerations are different things in RL, in the game they are allowed to be one and the same. Would be a complete restructuring of the entire crime building tree to work this differently and such thinking would apply better for a more advanced crime system (which IS still pending since the Advanced disease structure should be adapted to be something any property can utilize including crime.)

 

[LumenAngel]

A fast one

Foxglove Farm. Foxglove shouldn' give +1 food, but +1 unhealthy and provide poison instead...
Anthill. Should provide Bugs (help text say it provides the ressource, but look like it's false...). Adnd no more obsolete at cooking
Art Gallery. Art gallery req Free Artisty, but gain +1 culture with this tech? And some bonus from earlier tech (Sculpture, Aesthetic and Oil Painting)? Maybe add them to base bonus instead...
Myth - Paleolithic Mammoth. Should require Oral tradition
Myth of the Phoenix Should require Song of Fire and Song of Sky
Parking Meters, Parking Lot, Parking garage. Should require any Road building And Road Signs
Road Signs. Should require any Road building
Breeding Programm. Many of them req Ivory. They should req Elephant instead. Fox and Rabbits have the same requirements.

 

[Faustmouse]

A fast one


Breeding Programm. Many of them req Ivory. They should req Elephant instead. Fox and Rabbits have the same requirements.

Ok i always get confused by this. What is elephant? is it ivory or ivory2?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

A fast one

Myth - Paleolithic Mammoth. Should require Oral tradition
Myth of the Phoenix Should require Song of Fire and Song of Sky

I thought I had already done the Phoenix. edit it requires Bird Song which requires Sky Song.

Ok i always get confused by this. What is elephant? is it ivory or ivory2?

Obviously not the one you did used. Naming them BOUNS_ELEPHANT and BONUS_IVORY would break save games where people had built an Elephant Herd building.

 

[Faustmouse]

I'll fix them later along adding hydros potash bonus to this one building...

the other builldings aren't mine.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Foxglove Farm. Foxglove shouldn' give +1 food, but +1 unhealthy and provide poison instead...

Thanks for finding this. It was a left over thing from the other crops next to it. It was never suppose to give food. Thanks for finding that bug.

Parking Meters, Parking Lot, Parking garage. Should require any Road building And Road Signs
Road Signs. Should require any Road building

Isn't having Parking Meters require road sides make requiring the roads too redundant? If road signs require all types of roads then by requiring road signs then its also requairing all types of roads.

Art Gallery. Art gallery req Free Artisty, but gain +1 culture with this tech? And some bonus from earlier tech (Sculpture, Aesthetic and Oil Painting)? Maybe add them to base bonus instead...

This was intended even if its redundant. It also makes it edit proof if the techs ever get moved and requirements chnage. Plus its better to read than just a fat + whatever culture that would be equivalent to that many techs before.

 

[LumenAngel]

Thanks for finding this. It was a left over thing from the other crops next to it. It was never suppose to give food. Thanks for finding that bug.

I was "Oh, nice, because of this new ressource in city vicinity, I can build .... A powerful poison that give +1
I didnt look others flowers building, and I m not a pro with flowers, so it's maybe not the only one.

Isn't having Parking Meters require road sides make requiring the roads too redundant? If road signs require all types of roads then by requiring road signs then its also requairing all types of roads.

True, but not totally. If a road building is destroyeg/go obsolete without replacement, the building requiring it are all desactivated. But look like there are no desactivation on cascade, so the Parking Meters will be desactivated another turn after.

I thought I had already done the Phoenix. edit it requires Bird Song which requires Sky Song.

Yes, you right. My bad

 

[Northstar1989]

I posted these in a different thread earlier, but the modders who introduced these buildings either didn't notice it or have went inactive for the moment... I'd still like to get these buildings fixed, so, the following two buildings are bugged...



The National Standard of Measurement- This National Wonder should be buildable by a Great Engineer or Scientist anywhere in your empire once you have discovered Standardization. However my experience trying to build this wonder in the Ancient Era (Great Engineer- from an early Forge and The Pyramids) says it is impossible to build, even with the necessary technology.


Branding Hut - Technically not an error, but a problem with the choice of prerequisites. This building requires the "Fire Pit" building as a prerequisite, however it does not become obsolete until the discovery of Medicine, nor is it replaced by a superior building that performs the same function. This means it cannot be built in new cities after the construction of the "Great Bonfire" National Wonder, which constructs a free Bonfire (the upgraded version of the Fire Pit) in all cities.


Regards,
Northstar

 

[Northstar1989]

Also, I'd like to see more information listed in the Civilopedia about how to build the religious Great Wonders.

As I understand it, most of these (such as Hammaurabi Stele of Laws) require the relevant religion (such as Mesopotamism) to be your state religion, even if you're running a non-oppressive religious civic such as Folklore or Prophets.

Is it possible the Civilopedia for these wonders (at least the ones available early on in the game- until the player is likely to have gotten the hang of it) could explain something about this requirement. I know it confused me for a long time...


In fact, in general, the various monasteries and temples could use a much better explanation of what the requirements are to build them. I can recall being confused on more than a few occasions by my inability to build many of the monasteries until I discovered Meditation, for instance, despite the tech tree tooltips indicating certain buildings could be built much earlier...


Regards,
Northstar

 

[Thunderbrd]

Also, I'd like to see more information listed in the Civilopedia about how to build the religious Great Wonders.

As I understand it, most of these (such as Hammaurabi Stele of Laws) require the relevant religion (such as Mesopotamism) to be your state religion, even if you're running a non-oppressive religious civic such as Folklore or Prophets.

Is it possible the Civilopedia for these wonders (at least the ones available early on in the game- until the player is likely to have gotten the hang of it) could explain something about this requirement. I know it confused me for a long time...


In fact, in general, the various monasteries and temples could use a much better explanation of what the requirements are to build them. I can recall being confused on more than a few occasions by my inability to build many of the monasteries until I discovered Meditation, for instance, despite the tech tree tooltips indicating certain buildings could be built much earlier...


Regards,
Northstar

There's probably something that can be done... again... just too busy to address it at the moment. But I do agree.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The National Standard of Measurement- This National Wonder should be buildable by a Great Engineer or Scientist anywhere in your empire once you have discovered Standardization. However my experience trying to build this wonder in the Ancient Era (Great Engineer- from an early Forge and The Pyramids) says it is impossible to build, even with the necessary technology.

Regards,
Northstar

This has been fixed on the beta (SVN) for the next release.

Also, I'd like to see more information listed in the Civilopedia about how to build the religious Great Wonders.

As I understand it, most of these (such as Hammaurabi Stele of Laws) require the relevant religion (such as Mesopotamism) to be your state religion, even if you're running a non-oppressive religious civic such as Folklore or Prophets.

Is it possible the Civilopedia for these wonders (at least the ones available early on in the game- until the player is likely to have gotten the hang of it) could explain something about this requirement. I know it confused me for a long time...


In fact, in general, the various monasteries and temples could use a much better explanation of what the requirements are to build them. I can recall being confused on more than a few occasions by my inability to build many of the monasteries until I discovered Meditation, for instance, despite the tech tree tooltips indicating certain buildings could be built much earlier...


Regards,
Northstar

The pedia is built from the XML via the dll. There have been many new tags added to the XML which are not being shown up in the pedia. The prerequisites on the buildings should be.

I am currently doing some work on the pedia so if you, or anyone, have specific points to make please do so here