C2C - Building Review Thread

[Nimek]

I think we should add some buildings like

public latrines
public showers

Also transportation and water category and garbage should by one called Infrastructure.

Buildings providing fresh water, waste storage, sever systems etc should be vital for city growth.
Can you imagine 1 milion city without fresh water access?

 

[Snofru1]

When did the power plants change the way they work? Now I can build a Coal Power Plant in every city (with coal in the ressource list) before coal needed to be in the city´s vicinity.

While it was totally unrealistic before, it was much more fun to play - a real challenge in the mid game to bring power to as many cities as possible. It somehow reflected the high productivity of areas in the industrial era wherever coal was found - central England, the German Ruhr area, the same in special areas of the US (iirc) etc. Please bring that back in one way or the other, now I simply build coal plants everywhere, ignoring the high pollution and because the effects of having electrical power are so overwhelming.

 

[Hydromancerx]

When did the power plants change the way they work? Now I can build a Coal Power Plant in every city (with coal in the ressource list) before coal needed to be in the city´s vicinity.

While it was totally unrealistic before, it was much more fun to play - a real challenge in the mid game to bring power to as many cities as possible. It somehow reflected the high productivity of areas in the industrial era wherever coal was found - central England, the German Ruhr area, the same in special areas of the US (iirc) etc. Please bring that back in one way or the other, now I simply build coal plants everywhere, ignoring the high pollution and because the effects of having electrical power are so overwhelming.

I just changed it. I was adding Peat as a requirement to the Peat Dynamo but then realized its weird if it allows for a resource and the others have vicinity. So most of them changed except for the Geothermal Plant. The Shale Plant has vicinity too but only because there is no Shale resource yet.

In addition it was weird that the Biofuel Power Plant could be built everywhere since it required a building produced resource, while the others could not.

So that was the reasoning.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I liked the challenge of it but hated the unrealism of it. Sim City was pretty much right on that account. Not only would you need to build one everywhere until the tech improved to allow more options, but people simply wouldn't live where there is not power. It's not a bonus once you hit the age of appliances... its a prerequisite to standard living conditions.

 

[LumenAngel]

About Stone Tool Builder
it's your BEST building early ancien era : 5 hammers, 5 gold, 5 science. Copper working, Lead Working, Metal Casting and Bronze Working will reduce each by 1 each. And it will be obsolete at iron Working

But look like AI love these 4 techs and focus them a lot after Sedentary Lifestyle. In fact, AI nearly always have them before me even when I m the first one to have Sedentary Lifestyle. And so, they lot of these bonuses. And if they dont have Copper/Iron, they will lose them for nothing!

The idea is, instead of decrease with Tech, decrease with ressource. You will use stone less because you have iron, not because you know that you van use iron if you have some...
The idea is :

-1 hammer, -1 science with Copper Ingots
-1 hammer, -1 science with Iron Ingots
-1 hammer, -1 science with Tin Ingots
-1 hammer, -1 science with Bronze Ingots
-1 hammer, -1 science with Brass Ingots
-2 gold with Silver Ingot
-2 gold with Gold Ingot
-1 gold with Electrum Ingot
Replace by Forge, Foundry
Obsolete with Metallurgy

Bonuses from prehistorical tech stay the same

This way, if you dont have ressources, you will not be penalized for you Stone Tool Builder and you wont be far behind others civs for taking these techs

 

[Hydromancerx]

@LumenAngel

First of all resources apparently only can do % and not straight +/-. Which is why resources are not used in that way for that.

Second I still plan to have a metal tool maker that starts around Copper Working or Metal Casting (I have not decided) that picks up where the other drops off.

 

[Snofru1]

In the later game (Industrial+) the city screen is more and more clogged with buildings I don´t build in every city - mostly the "Factory" buildings - sope, refrigerator and whatever they are called. They have small revenue but they produce a ressource - and usually pollution. Because of the latter I build them only in 1 or 2 cities. These buildings have increased a lot in number recently and the building list becomes awfully crowded. Now it really would be better if they all could only be built in say 3 cities (like the Fusion Power Plants).

I know that National Wonders are limited per city (though I always turn that off) but maybe there is a way to have this for regular buildings, too.

 

[Faustmouse]

Yeah, you can set normal buildings to be only buildable in X cities. However, I for example build them everywere, if the city has nothing else to do. Since Polllution seems quite harmless, I don't care much about it.
Also, in the future we'd love to have a system that each factory produces lets say 100 Resources, and each Pop consumes 1 resource. So if you have 500 Pop in your empire, you'd need 5 Factories to supply them with everything they need. And if you had 5000, you'd need 50 Factories. Or import more goods.

But what I think would be cool: If you are able to right klick at buildings to make them invisible in the building screen.

 

[Snofru1]

Since Polllution seems quite harmless, I don't care much about it.

That changes if you come beyond 1000 pollution: You get a total of 52 , 49 and loose 25 (at least in my current timeframe). And getting 1000 is quite easy.

 

[Snofru1]

There are no jewels anymore after the Jewelry Store becomes obsolete with Wearable Computers. The Gem Cutter which is required for Jewelry Store never goes obsolete. I think there should be a Jewelry Factory or somehting similar that doesn´t go obsolete. It is somehow strange that other nations that are far behind want to sell you stuff that would be terribly simple to produce by yourself (same goes for Wool and Vines).

 

[Faustmouse]

I think Labs are way to weak at the moment. Most of the research today is done in Labs. Also, they are VERY expensive.
So I suggest to increase both, and - by a 10-fold - or even more.

Instead of
Lab X
-10
+ 5
+ 2 with Tech 1
+ 2 with Tech 2
...


it should be:

Lab X
-100
+ 50
+ 20 with Tech 1
+ 20 with Tech 2

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Fausmouse

I don't think we should go too overboard. Joesph was a big proponent for not giving too far with the -gold however I think as we expand more into the Trans-Human and ultimately galactic eras we could see labs like that. However I think the ones we have now are pushing the balance of those eras already. And I would hate to have readjust all the costs again.

In short the ratio if increase in tech cost should correspond with the amount of research you can get. And we must also consider research giving wonders too. In addition more and more research buildings get unlocked and many of them even unlock more research from techs and/or resources.

Which is why we need more testers on various speed letting us know if the research rate is going too fast or too slow as they play.

 

[Azurian]

A handful of Transhuman Era buildings need to appear farther in the future, is this the correct thread to list them at?

 

[Faustmouse]

yes, this is for tech requirements, bonus requirements, prereq buildings, costs, yields etc.

For example, the Battlebot Arena could use some + from later robot techs. And some buildings need to get their obsolete tech changed.

I suggest we look over the buildings in detail after we filled the TH era, but tech adjustments should be taken before.

 

[Snofru1]

There still are a number of building icons that are identical. It would be really good if they could be changed as some can be really confusing (I have most issues with the Cement Mill which looks same as Factory). I usually just look at the buildings list and immediately see which building(s) I want to construct. But with all those that have identical icons I always need to check the hover text. And then sometimes the hover text only appears in the 3rd attempt...
Some maybe need not to be changed as they cannot be built at the same time or are auto-built.

Here is the probably incomplete list, IMO most important ones in bold:

1. Toll House - Customs House
2. Academy - Artist Colony - Health Spa - Plato´s Academy
3. Jewish synagogue - Masada
4. Cloning Laboratory - Technological Capital - Space Laboratory - Biological Warfare Lab
5. Edison´s Workshop - Leonardo´s Workshop
6. National Courier System - Stable
7. All combinations of Headquarters - Franchise (Store) for the new corporations
8. Balloon Rides - Balloon Festival
9. Nature Legacy - Nature Alliance
10. Nature Circles (6 buildings)
11. Nature Altars (5 buildings)
12. Jain Cathedral - Jain Temple
13. Temples of Ki (5 buildings)
14. Ngai Narok Bless (4 buildings)
15. Scientology: Cathedral - Sede - Temple
16. Spirits Legacy - Spirits Alliance
17. Invocation Huts (9 buildings)
18. Shaman/Shamanistic Temples (9 buildings)
19. King Gesar Song - Tengri Song
20. Hellsmouth Sanctuary - The Tomb of Ansyen Bon
21. Library of Nineveh - National Library Service
22. Myth of Amphibians - Enclosure Amphibian Pond
23. Military Standards: Animal Mascot - Worker - Bear - Big Cats - Bison - Deer - Giraffe - Rhinoceros - Zebra
24. Centre for Cephaloid Studies - Centre for Whale Studies - Centre for Shark Studies - Marine Institute
25. Coastal Fish Farm - Fish Pens - Crab Nets
26. Myth Earth - Song of the Earth
27. Master Hunter - Master Sea Hunter
28. Myth Sea - Song of the Sea
29. Myth Sky - Song of the Sky
30. Snake Charmer - Snake Pit
31. Myth of the Great White Shark - Myth of the Hammerhead Shark - Myth of the Reef Shark - Myth Tales of Sharks - Myth of the Whale Shark
32. Myth of the Humpback Whale - Myth of the Leviathan - Myth of the Minke Whale - Myth of the Narwal
33. Tradition Hunting - Tradition Sea Hunter - Tradition Hunter
34. Slave Market - Slave Compound
35. Winery - Connoisseur Club (3 pairs)
36. Farmscraper I - II - III
37. University - Einstein´s Laboratory
38. Laboratory - Deep Space research Institute
39. Silicon Valley - Computer Network
40. Hospital - Medical Clinic - Research Hospital
41. District Courthouse - Local Courthouse - Courthouse
42. Rubber Factory - Rubber Plant
43. Nanofactory - Cement Mill - Factory - Manufacturing Plant
44. Smith and Smelter Buildings are not identical but nearly impossible to differentiate
45. All Guilds (21 Buildings)
46. Aerodrome - Grand Aerodrome

 

[Koshling]

I think both Oxford University and Newton's College could use a little rebalancing. The ratio of cost (100 and 140 gold per turn respectively) to science output (20 per turn in both cases, with Newton having a little culture and GP output too) is just too high to make them worth building. I think the science output of each should be about 50% higher than it is.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

There still are a number of building icons that are identical. It would be really good if they could be changed as some can be really confusing (I have most issues with the Cement Mill which looks same as Factory). I usually just look at the buildings list and immediately see which building(s) I want to construct. But with all those that have identical icons I always need to check the hover text. And then sometimes the hover text only appears in the 3rd attempt...
Some maybe need not to be changed as they cannot be built at the same time or are auto-built.

Have you considered doing some button art yourself? At the moment I expect that will be the most likely way for your suggested changes to happen quickly.

Buttons must be 64x64. It would be nice if the button border was included and the alpha-channel. I can't get the alpha-channel bit to work myself so get Hydro to add it after I have done the rest.

Once buttons are provided we can edit the XML to use them.

 

[Snofru1]

Have you considered doing some button art yourself? At the moment I expect that will be the most likely way for your suggested changes to happen quickly.

That is a valid point. Though I have never done icons I am doing some basic graphics work with Photoshop Elements every now and then. But I have no idea what a "alpha-channel" is (but I will check). Is there a kind of tutorial for icons (buttons) somewhere?

I can´t promise anything and I definitely can´t do anything before the end of next week.

And then I have read in the other thread that MrAzure loves to do buttons ...

 

[Azurian]

1. Cloning Laboratory - Technological Capital - Space Laboratory - Biological Warfare Lab
2. Farmscraper I - II - III
3. Laboratory - Deep Space research Institute
4. Silicon Valley - Computer Network
5. Hospital - Medical Clinic - Research Hospital
6. Nanofactory - Cement Mill - Factory - Manufacturing Plant

I will make buttons for these ASAP and Faustmouse/Hydro can put them in.
I have to get permission from Hydro to do the rest, because I don't want to mess with his artistic vision.
I use Photoshop.


Snofru1 can you make a list of ugly building art, like if they have a white background or are meh?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I have to get permission from Hydro to do the rest, because I don't want to mess with his artistic vision. I use Photoshop.

Except for anything to do with religion, myths or slavery which are mine. I have no problem with you posting suggestions as most date from before I could do buttons.

It is only buttons for my stuff. Almost all the building art was removed to reduce space and turn time.