C2C - Fake Goods

[Hydromancerx]

I think we might have to reconsider things about the Shipwright. I am on a Continent with alot of resources (and i mean alot) but i still cant get a shipwright built? Just cant get far with a war canoe or carry troops (main downfall). I know what you have is correct (in theory) but getting to those theories are very very hard. Of course IMHO

You have the right resources to build it. What are you not building? Cow and Deer should allow for it from leather. Here are a path using the deer resource ...

Lumber Camp (Wood)
Deer Resource in City Vicinity
- Deer Hunter's Camp (Carcass)
-- Hunter Camp (Hide)
--- Tannery (Leather)
---- Rope Maker (Rope)
---- Sail Maker (Sails)
----- Shipwright [Req Wood + Rope + Sails]

Also you have the latest update of mine right? It had a bug where the Tannery did not produce leather.

If you have the update and have all the building listed above let me know. Note that all those building don't have to be built in the same city since goods are given to every city.

Have you put in the update Hydro provided? There was a bug in the buildings that went out with C2C 11 which meant that no one could build ships.

Well they could, its just a lot harder since you need sheep, silk, hemp or cotton. And most of those come long after you can already build sailing ships.

 

[strategyonly]

You have the right resources to build it. What are you not building? Cow and Deer should allow for it from leather. Here are a path using the deer resource ...

Lumber Camp (Wood)
Deer Resource in City Vicinity
- Deer Hunter's Camp (Carcass)
-- Hunter Camp (Hide)
--- Tannery (Leather)
---- Rope Maker (Rope)
---- Sail Maker (Sails)
----- Shipwright [Req Wood + Rope + Sails]

Also you have the latest update of mine right? It had a bug where the Tannery did not produce leather.

If you have the update and have all the building listed above let me know. Note that all those building don't have to be built in the same city since goods are given to every city.

Yes i have the latest update, but no rope/leather/sails, nothing showing up at all in the to be built area

In the modders C2C i am uploading it will have the latest, you can check out my game Prehistoric in the saved game area, its the current game i am playing.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I like the fake goods as far as they allow to build buildings, they should not provide gold or food to cities, though.

Yeah I think I may have to do this. Which is too bad since giving them a bonus was nice for the AI to

Yes i have the latest update, but no rope/leather/sails, nothing showing up at all in the to be built area

In the modders C2C i am uploading it will have the latest, you can check out my game Prehistoric in the saved game area, its the current game i am playing.

Well Sails require you build a "Sail Maker" which requires Good (Leather) OR Good (Cloth).

And Rope requires you build a "Rope Weaver" which requires Good (Leather) OR Weaver's Hut. (I think)

At any rate as long as you have Good (Leather) you should be able to build a Shipwright since it can build both a Sails and Rope.

 

[Hydromancerx]

So is it agreed that goods should not give any bonuses?

What about converted resources to goods like smart medicine? It gave happy and health.

What about say a good tax built into them? Such as a maintenance cost?

 

[strategyonly]

So is it agreed that goods should not give any bonuses?

What about converted resources to goods like smart medicine? It gave happy and health.

What about say a good tax built into them? Such as a maintenance cost?

I wont go so far to say "any" health is always more important than most. I think alot of the building need some more health, all depending on where you start by chance, like in the last start i had, i was next to a river and a coast, but i started with a - that last for a very loooong time.

 

[little_cyclone]

Maybe not no bonuses, but more towards culture, instead of straight gold or health.. Is it possible for them to do commerce?

 

[Hydromancerx]

Yes commerce can be done, its building after all. However commerce is like having gold + science + culture + espionage all in one. This would un-balance things even worse.

 

[JosEPh_II]

So is it agreed that goods should not give any bonuses?

I don't agree. In fact I strongly disagree.

What about converted resources to goods like smart medicine? It gave happy and health.

I say don't mess with it yet till more playtime has went by. It takes a while to get to it's era.

What about say a good tax built into them? Such as a maintenance cost?

I'm still trying to figure out the -gold stuff attached to buildings and other stuff. It makes me leery of trying some of them until I have a strong economy/gold reserve.

DRJ wrote: I like the fake goods as far as they allow to build buildings, they should not provide gold or food to cities, though.

Obviously then you don't get tundra starts very often. With out some of the Food and/or gold those cities stagnate very quickly.

Man I should've read this thread sooner! :/

JosEPh

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I agree with Joseph, we need to play a few games before you do much more tinkering with this.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Sounds good. I would rather not take the bonuses out. Especially since they seem to make the AI less stupid with their economic and food boosts.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Yeah!

<chants> "More testing, More testing! I Like testing!

JosEPh

 

[Nightguard]

Just to put my 2 into the discussion; I think that having the fake goods providing actual gold is a little bit overpowered. There are dozens of early game buildings already that are providing extra gold. I just developed glassworking, and without getting any kind of sand or glass, my empire has already reached +20 per turn with all commerce going into research. I have about 1000 in the coffers, and just got the Wealthiest Nations of the World event showing that I have less than anyone else. Obviously the AI is exploiting all the producing buildings and resources as well. I think it's definitly worth considering tweaking this part back.

On the other hand, I'm perfectly fine with the goods giving and at present; they give a good way to help speed up the early expansion without moving to the Colonist and Pioneer units Zep originally added.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Just to put my 2 into the discussion; I think that having the fake goods providing actual gold is a little bit overpowered. There are dozens of early game buildings already that are providing extra gold. I just developed glassworking, and without getting any kind of sand or glass, my empire has already reached +20 per turn with all commerce going into research. I have about 1000 in the coffers, and just got the Wealthiest Nations of the World event showing that I have less than anyone else. Obviously the AI is exploiting all the producing buildings and resources as well. I think it's definitly worth considering tweaking this part back.

On the other hand, I'm perfectly fine with the goods giving and at present; they give a good way to help speed up the early expansion without moving to the Colonist and Pioneer units Zep originally added.

If you are playing with revolutions on then 1000 in the bank is no where near enough to stop revolts from "financial trouble".

 

[Nightguard]

I do play with revolutions enabled. I've usually kept my nation contented through other means, such as good culture rate, happiness, and garrisons.

 

[Nightguard]

I haven't seen this in your latest version of fake goods, so if it's in v12 of C2C, please disregard.

I think it would be great for each of the goods to list what buildings create them in their civilopedia entry. Sometimes you know what you want to acquire and just need to know what building to construct towards without having to chase halfway through a list of techs or buildings to find out. For example, when you develop the stone tools tech, you can build a flint knappers hut, which would provide stone tools. Obsidian, which is required for the flint knapper, isn't exactly common, so I would love to know if there are any other buildings that can provide me with stone tools. Right now, I'd have to dig through various tech entries related to stone to see if anything would, but if it were in the civilopedia strategy notes, I could just click on the goods, read the entry, and know if there's any other way to get that good. Just one thought I had relating to accessability/ease of use.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Nightguard

Maybe when all the goods are all established. Right now they not only are getting additional goods but they have been adjusted and moved around. Its just too soon to have that sort of info set in stone yet.

As fort the Good (Stone Tools), they are only available with Obsidian resource at the moment.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Dancing Hoskuld

Here is the flowchart you requested the other day. Note there are some tweaks in red that are not in the game yet such as flour, bread, etc. Let me know if there any errors. Note that some goods are not listed such as Good (Vulcanized Rubber) and Nanobots since they were the same as how the resources use to be. I am sorry if its a little messy but its really complex and confusing as a diagram.

 

[strategyonly]

I am sorry if its a little messy but its really complex and confusing as a diagram.

Not really confusing that much, but alot does make sense. Lets just see how it plays out, oh btw talking of charts, can you PLS get me a NEW tech chart, last one i think was v5?

 

[Hydromancerx]

Not really confusing that much, but alot does make sense. Lets just see how it plays out, oh btw talking of charts, can you PLS get me a NEW tech chart, last one i think was v5?

Well the last tech chart i had was a spread sheet. But even that is out of date. I am not sure if i can do it flow chart style anymore but we shall see.

 

[strategyonly]

Well the last tech chart i had was a spread sheet. But even that is out of date. I am not sure if i can do it flow chart style anymore but we shall see.

Well as they say, "Lets see."