C2C - Fake Goods

What civics would affect goods either positively or negatively? I think it best to confine the changes to the economic civic line, save for a few exceptions like drugs. There's a baseline bonus then that thing you start with is x0, slavery is = barter is +, guilds is ++, mercantile is +++, free market is - corporatist is --, regulated is =, state property is x0 and environmentalism is = is my off the top of my head, haven't-looked-at-the civilopedia-at-all-since-typing-this, going to bed in ten seconds ballpark guesstimate.

x0 is times zero as in negates bonus
 
at least in this case goods are superior to recourses because they arent afected by civics. please give this idea a chance it would be so cool to sea that
 
I don't think it would establish a good precedence to establish such a strong connection between goods 'buildings' and civics... I'm not sure yet. This conversation seems to be wandering into dangerously underconsidered territory is all I can say right now.
 
Theer seem to be several goods in the current game that have no effect whatsoever (no value in themselves, and don't act as pre-reqs for anything). Why?

Examples: Good(salt), Good(bullion)
 
Theer seem to be several goods in the current game that have no effect whatsoever (no value in themselves, and don't act as pre-reqs for anything). Why?

Examples: Good(salt), Good(bullion)

I think one point of confusion is that there is sometimes both a Good and a Resource of the same thing: Good Salt, Resource Salt. I believe the Resource provides the production bonus at the Tannery.

I got a little confused before because I had a Stone or Marble resource in all my cities, but didn't have the building to make it a Good, so couldn't make whatever the building was that needed it.

If we really want to have a Good AND Resource of the same type, then maybe the name needs a slight change to avoid confusion? Even something as simple as "Refined" <good> could work.
 
I think one point of confusion is that there is sometimes both a Good and a Resource of the same thing: Good Salt, Resource Salt. I believe the Resource provides the production bonus at the Tannery.

I got a little confused before because I had a Stone or Marble resource in all my cities, but didn't have the building to make it a Good, so couldn't make whatever the building was that needed it.

If we really want to have a Good AND Resource of the same type, then maybe the name needs a slight change to avoid confusion? Even something as simple as "Refined" <good> could work.

Yeh, but the key issue is what purpose does a good serve if it gives no bonuses and is not a pre-req? I assume such goods are work-in-progress but I wanted to check is all...?
 
Yeh, but the key issue is what purpose does a good serve if it gives no bonuses and is not a pre-req? I assume such goods are work-in-progress but I wanted to check is all...?

Er... yeah, your comment made me think of a DIFFERENT issue I had in the back of my mind. I wasn't providing an answer to it ;)
 
Theer seem to be several goods in the current game that have no effect whatsoever (no value in themselves, and don't act as pre-reqs for anything). Why?

Examples: Good(salt), Good(bullion)

Good (Bullion) is used for the Jewelery

And some just have not been finished yet. I don't want to have to make so much at once so I do a little at a time, which means some goods without a building.

However Good (Salt) use to be a requirement for the Bazaar. But it all changed with it turned all the market building into an upgrade chain.
 
Oy, Hydro. I had the idea last night when I should have been sleeping to list all the goods we have so far here and, indented under each of them, all of the economic civics. Then one could go over all of the goods in a spreadsheet like manner and argue over what bonus each good should have under each civic. Just for example:

Good (Raw Meat)
- Communalism: +6% food
- Barter: +4% food
- Slavery: +2% food
- Coinage: +2% food
- Guilds: +2% food
- Mercantile: +3% food
- Free Market: +1 % food
- Planned: +0% food
- Corporatist: +1% food
- Regulated: +1% food
- Green: +0% food
- Post-Scarcity: +0% food

Good (Toys)
- Communalism: +1 culture flat, +1 happy
- Barter: +2 culture flat, +1 happy
- Slavery: +1 culture flat
- Coinage: +1% culture, +1 happy
- Guilds: +1% culture, +1 happy
- Mercantile: +4% culture, +2 happy
- Free Market: +1% gold, +1% culture, +1 happy
- Planned: +2% culture, +1 happy
- Corporatist: +2% gold, + happy
- Regulated: +1% gold, +1% culture, +1 happy
- Green: +2% culture, +1 happy
- Post-Scarcity: +3% culture

And if there any other civics that might affect certain goods they might be added on the end on a case by case business.

If you like, I could try modding in agreed upon changes using Afforess' Fun With Civics post If you can point me to the appropriate place to make changes.
 
Hmm. This is a big undertaking. And I would not mind having you alter my goods mod. I think you should post all your ideas and even a spreadseet like you said and get peoples opinion on it.

I too have been thinking of adding bonuses to goods too except its more in the way of unit xp or producing units faster.
 
Bamboo - Producing Building Obsolete at Vertical Farming
- Communalism:
- Barter:
- Slavery:
- Coinage:
- Guilds:
- Mercantile:
- Free Market:
- Planned:
- Corporatist:
- Regulated:
- Green:
- Post Scarcity:

Baskets - Producing Building Obsolete at Guilds
- Communalism:
- Barter:
- Slavery:
- Coinage:
- Guilds:
- Mercantile:
- Free Market:
- Planned:
- Corporatist:
- Regulated:
- Green:
- Post Scarcity:

Beads - Producing Building Obsolete at Guilds
- Communalism:
- Barter:
- Slavery:
- Coinage:
- Guilds:
- Mercantile:
- Free Market:
- Planned:
- Corporatist:
- Regulated:
- Green:
- Post Scarcity:

Berries - Good obsolete at Vertical Farming
- Communalism:
- Barter:
- Slavery:
- Coinage:
- Guilds:
- Mercantile:
- Free Market:
- Planned:
- Corporatist:
- Regulated:
- Green:
- Post Scarcity:

Bicycles - Good obsolete at Skyroads
- Communalism:
- Barter:
- Slavery:
- Coinage:
- Guilds:
- Mercantile:
- Free Market:
- Planned:
- Corporatist:
- Regulated:
- Green:
- Post Scarcity:

OK, yeah this is going to take up way too much space. Maybe it would be better to do this five at a time, debate it, change it, and move on to the next set, I've got an alphabetical list here of all the goods in the latest release of the game not including the new goods added to the svn since then.
Here's what I think.
1. Bamboo seems like a good candidate for either a hammer bonus bonus, building construction bonus or faster unit training or some combination of the three. The building that produces bamboo goes obsolete at vertical farming but the good does not. Does that mean the good building sticks around in all cities built before then but not newly built ones?
2. Good Basket goes obsolete with guilds so we don't need to worry about any civics past Guilds. Baskets store small items like pottery. Food? A small food bonus?
3. The building to produce beads goes obsolete at guilds but the good does not. Same question as bamboo applies. Beads are both a cultural thing and a trade thing. It could provide a small gold related bonus with communalism though slavery and an equally small cultural bonus thereafter.
4. Berries themselves go obsolete at vertical farming so I don't think we have to worry about post scarcity. As a raw food item I think it might provide a consistent small food bonus
5. Bicycles go obsolete at skyroads. I checked and it seems you're able to get androids before skyroads so post-scarcity still deserves a value. Bicycles are important transportation devices for poor people in poor countries which allow them to get jobs to get farther away from their homes than would otherwise be feasable. A hammer Percent bonus may be in order thanks to all those newly employed laborers. Communalism and Barter might not deserve any hammer percent bonus because the economy is too primitive for any of that stuff. Under mercantilism the people are encouraged to buy domestic which might increase the business of local bicycle manufacturers. The bicycle shop itself might get an additional gold bonus though it would be more appropriate if the building was a bicycle producer instead of a bicycle sales point implied by the building's civilopedia. In all cases however bicycles as a form of recreation encourage a more healthy lifestyle. A single health bonus might be appropriate across the board especially under the green civic which I think should give the building plus 3 health.

Keeping in mind that most bonuses currently applied to the building that gives you the goods would need to be reviewed so that the good and the producing building don't double any bonuses up.
 
OK, yeah this is going to take up way too much space.

Use a spreadsheet dude. (points to signature). Use like google docs.

But honestly the more I am seeing the more I think we should not change them. Hold off on this idea. Go back to say working on the alternative timeline stuff. You were doing great. Like help plan out what each alternative timeline civic will do.
 
Now that AIAndy has fixed the limited resource problem that has bedeviled all of civ 4 molding for several years, is the plan to convert all of these Goods into true resources?

Also, if that is the plan, is it intended to be done for V19?
 
Now that AIAndy has fixed the limited resource problem that has bedeviled all of civ 4 molding for several years, is the plan to convert all of these Goods into true resources?

That's the plan or even phase out unneeded goods now that we can have resouces.

Also, if that is the plan, is it intended to be done for V19?

I really would like to. Just there are are sooo many factors from each resocure to apply to buildings.

My brain is already overloading. :crazyeye: :faint:
 
OK, yeah this is going to take up way too much space. Maybe it would be better to do this five at a time, debate it, change it, and move on to the next set, I've got an alphabetical list here of all the goods in the latest release of the game not including the new goods added to the svn since then.
Here's what I think.
1. Bamboo seems like a good candidate for either a hammer bonus bonus, building construction bonus or faster unit training or some combination of the three. The building that produces bamboo goes obsolete at vertical farming but the good does not. Does that mean the good building sticks around in all cities built before then but not newly built ones?
2. Good Basket goes obsolete with guilds so we don't need to worry about any civics past Guilds. Baskets store small items like pottery. Food? A small food bonus?
3. The building to produce beads goes obsolete at guilds but the good does not. Same question as bamboo applies. Beads are both a cultural thing and a trade thing. It could provide a small gold related bonus with communalism though slavery and an equally small cultural bonus thereafter.
4. Berries themselves go obsolete at vertical farming so I don't think we have to worry about post scarcity. As a raw food item I think it might provide a consistent small food bonus
5. Bicycles go obsolete at skyroads. I checked and it seems you're able to get androids before skyroads so post-scarcity still deserves a value. Bicycles are important transportation devices for poor people in poor countries which allow them to get jobs to get farther away from their homes than would otherwise be feasable. A hammer Percent bonus may be in order thanks to all those newly employed laborers. Communalism and Barter might not deserve any hammer percent bonus because the economy is too primitive for any of that stuff. Under mercantilism the people are encouraged to buy domestic which might increase the business of local bicycle manufacturers. The bicycle shop itself might get an additional gold bonus though it would be more appropriate if the building was a bicycle producer instead of a bicycle sales point implied by the building's civilopedia. In all cases however bicycles as a form of recreation encourage a more healthy lifestyle. A single health bonus might be appropriate across the board especially under the green civic which I think should give the building plus 3 health.

Keeping in mind that most bonuses currently applied to the building that gives you the goods would need to be reviewed so that the good and the producing building don't double any bonuses up.

I think this is a good idea, but I suggest putting it on the back burner for the time being. Right now I've been tweaking Civics to address major complaints, but in the long run I want to overhaul the Civics into new categories that make more sense. So I rather not have all this work done with current Civics just to have to do it all over again down the road (since some of those Civics may not exist anymore.)

And like Hydro said, there is a lot to work on right now. Some big stuff has been added lately and that needs to be massaged into the mod.
 
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