C2C - GEM edition

[civfan613]

I wrote some stuff at the maps section already, but there's more to add.
1. Is there a way to make a "mod inside mod", aka use 99% of the same mod (and in the same folder) - but for two modmods? Like loading alternative DLLs and/or XMLs.
2. Now, onto the actual idea. Is there an easy way (or any at all) to make yet another additional "feature" layer? You'll get my idea soon.
3. I'm thinking of a GEM-only additional "plot feature" - TERRITORY. Which would bind your available CULTURES to your actual location, while reducing or removing the (IMHO, stupid and unattractive) dependence on resources-in-sight. You still CAN leave it, but the territory dependence would be more important anyways.
4. Yet another separate idea. Like I wrote in the maps section, why not make "themed" GEMs, for example ERA-diversified. This is yet another step towards RFC/C2C.
5. But more importantly, is there a way to make an easy "civ (re)spawn" event without extensive code rewriting? I mean, you do have Revolutions already, so why not make it TIMED as well?
6. ALL this combined, can easily lead to era-GEMs with timed civ spawning. The only real problem would be time-scaling, cause C2C operates in slightly uncomfortable time ranges for adapting to actual civs realistically. Still, this can be overruled by some tweaking and/or implementing of "generic regional civs" for the game-start - which later on simply turn into more specific civs based on geography and/or your actual gameplay.

Waiting for replies and/or ideas.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Sounds like you want a C2C Modmod.

 

[civfan613]

Yeah, kinda.
So, do you mind actually telling me what the chances for the aforementioned ideas are?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

We use the WoC standard for XML. That means for the most part that the values for an entity (unit, building etc) are set in the order the modules are read. Which means that if your module is loaded last it has the final say in what the values are. People turn your module (modmod) on and off in the MLF.

The WoC standard also allows for tests on entities to see if options or other entities exist adding much flexibility.

We use BUG for the modularity of the python. It to allows for more flexibility as to what is in the game.

I do not understand exactly what it is you want to achieve but they look non-trivial.

There is a mod "Spawn a Civ" the StrategyOnly keeps pestering me to add but it is only useful in scenarios and GEM style games which I don't play.

 

[civfan613]

I just read CivilizationInfos and found half of what I want: DerivativeCiv.
So, if we start with a generic geographical civ, it CAN have narrow-type derivatives.
I can start as (SOUTH-)EUROPEAN, then become ROMAN, and even later ITALIAN.
The only thing left, is forcing a Revolution at a timed OR cultural trigger (and auto-switching your control to the new civ; or maybe asking your opinion, dunno), effectively enabling civ transition, based on actual gameplay.
I'm pretty sure it's not hard to do, if not already possible...

 

[RidetheSpiral23]

Well I think it may be harder and more work than you think.

Firstly, the idea of removing resource requirements for cultures. It is possibly a limited system but it does get the job done quite well. Hydro implemented that system to allow easy addition of more "civs" and more importantly allowing for more than one culture. I would like to at some point figure out a different method of determining culture availability though. Mainly because I would like to remove animal map resources and because it doesn't gel well with eventual nomad start. I still have no idea and how to accomplish it best yet and trying to get other stuff done first.

Secondly, derivative civs. That won't work. It works off of your starting chosen civ rather than the culture civ you have. What really needs to happen is to create a culture adoption system similar to religions and work derivative civs into that coding.

 

[civfan613]

1. Not so much removing resources, but rather making an additional plot-layer of "location" on the GEM (and GEM only), kinda like CORE AREA of RFC (Dawn?).
Thus, you'll be able to build any CIV-culture ONLY by having a city in its respective geographical location.
Which MAKES sense, I'd say.
It means no Roman culture in Australia, or no Zulu culture in Canada - which might accidentally happen, if based solely on resources.
AND I kinda dislike the very idea of cultures being resource-dependent to begin with...
2. I don't know, how exactly the derivative civs work.
I did say it was only a part of what I'm looking for.
But I guess they do work through revolutions - so it is somewhat implemented already.

 

[RidetheSpiral23]

Hum interesting. So like an extra invisible layer that you could paint onto maps? You also could consider basing it off of longitude and latitude to save the hassle of editing maps every time you make a new one. All that would need done is adding max right and left latitude integers to map files and adding variables to the culture wonder buildings. That would be the correct route to go in my opinion.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Because of the way GEM was made its latitude and longitude don't match the normal/random maps. We have this problem with the animal spawns. Which is why you need to use the one that comes with GEM if playing a GEM map and the one that comes with C2C if playing on a random map.

What I am saying is that on the GEM map the longitude of Spain is that of the US of A on the real Earth. It is just the way Civ IV does longitude 180 degrees West = left hand side of the mini map.

 

[RidetheSpiral23]

Because of the way GEM was made its latitude and longitude don't match the normal/random maps. We have this problem with the animal spawns. Which is why you need to use the one that comes with GEM if playing a GEM map and the one that comes with C2C if playing on a random map.

What I am saying is that on the GEM map the longitude of Spain is that of the US of A on the real Earth. It is just the way Civ IV does longitude 180 degrees West = left hand side of the mini map.

Hum I never even thought of that. So for it to work properly the GEM map would have to be redone to fit correctly? I feel like that would be beneficial to create "zones" for cultures, especially if animal resources are ever taken out.

 

[civfan613]

I actually meant "wasting" a few hours and "painting" the GEM manually.
I did say it was a GEM-only idea...
It should look like painted with culture, except it being pre-made and done by "painting" each country/civ from the start.
Basically how a REAL geopolitical map looks.
Example:
http://img1.loadtr.com/b-483295-World_Map.gif
Except maybe adjusted for cultures, instead of countries, dunno...

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

"painting" implies it will be visible to the player but not the AI or non-player nations. For this to work you would probably need a new XML file and the code to work with it. Each plot would need to be assigned to the cultures you want. Then that information would need to be made available to and used by the program. If each plot only had one culture associated with it it may be possible to use the "Forth Yield" mod as a base but merging that in would be non trivial.

 

[civfan613]

Non-trivial doesn't mean non-doable or non-intriguing.
And yeah, kinda like a 4th yield.