C2C- Resources Discussion and Ideas
- Thread starter Azurian
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Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
No you can't until much later ie railways. Even in the industrial era it was usual to smelt where the metal (or coal) was mined.
My view is that for metals we should:-
1) Change resource to <metal ore> All metal ore deposits become visible on the map at mining.
2) until the tech for working the metal is available the <metal ore> only provides a small boost to the jewelery line. When the metal is available the metal ore boost is lost.
For example platinum was hammered into jewelery but not much use until it could be melted almost 1200 years after it shows on the map.
3) until railway is available "<metal> workshop" converts vicinity <metal or> into <metal>. Transport of the refined metal, while difficult is much easier than transport of the raw ore. Building that currently need the metal in the vicinity may need to change to use either the ore/converting building or not have the vicinity restriction.
4) at railway a new National Wonder building "<metal> smelter" converts any <metal or> into <metal>. So you only need it in your nation or import it to have the resource.
2) until the tech for working the metal is available the <metal ore> only provides a small boost to the jewelery line. When the metal is available the metal ore boost is lost.
For example platinum was hammered into jewelery but not much use until it could be melted almost 1200 years after it shows on the map.
3) until railway is available "<metal> workshop" converts vicinity <metal or> into <metal>. Transport of the refined metal, while difficult is much easier than transport of the raw ore. Building that currently need the metal in the vicinity may need to change to use either the ore/converting building or not have the vicinity restriction.
4) at railway a new National Wonder building "<metal> smelter" converts any <metal or> into <metal>. So you only need it in your nation or import it to have the resource.
Nimek
Emperor
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1 Idea is avesome. Adds complexity to our current economy system. Us i understand to have iron resource i must
build mine on iron ore
build iron workshop to change iron ore to iron
Problem is that sometimes you dont have resource in city vincinity (only in your borders or imported) what than?
2 What about farm buidlings. Should be removed i think or you have better idea to them?
3 Some buildings like tidal farm. wind farm schould be tile improvements. DOnt you think?
build mine on iron ore
build iron workshop to change iron ore to iron
Problem is that sometimes you dont have resource in city vincinity (only in your borders or imported) what than?
2 What about farm buidlings. Should be removed i think or you have better idea to them?
3 Some buildings like tidal farm. wind farm schould be tile improvements. DOnt you think?
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I love your thinking there DH!
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Bumping since I lost where this topic was and wanted to work on the Jade and Amber Gatherers.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
As we move more and more to having a local availability of a resource to produce manufactured resources which are needed to build buildings the problem of that one required resource being outside any cities work area and it not being possible to put a city near by becomes more and more frequent. In vanilla BtS this is not a problem because you can just put a fort on the plot and get the resource. However in C2C it is not the resource you need but the manufactured resource(s) produced by buildings. The solution is either to have Fort also provide the manufactured resources or have special improvements that produce those manufactured resources eg the Farm currently provide Wheat but what we want is Grain so we need a new Farm2 (or Fort) which provides both Wheat and Grain but can only be built outside the work area of a city.
What happens when a city expands to 3 plots? - that can be easily accommodated by having the improvement "upgrade" to the normal improvement (in zero turns) when it works. So in the example above Farm2 would upgrade to Farm as soon as it is worked.
Is this even possible? It will require extra tags on improvements and or extra levels of fort or both. Ideas?
What happens when a city expands to 3 plots? - that can be easily accommodated by having the improvement "upgrade" to the normal improvement (in zero turns) when it works. So in the example above Farm2 would upgrade to Farm as soon as it is worked.
Is this even possible? It will require extra tags on improvements and or extra levels of fort or both. Ideas?
I don't really like this push towards having more and more localized map resources. I already find it annoying that horses only allow you to build Cavalry in nearby cities, that isn't really realistic, horses once domesticated were taken everywhere and bred in a domestic setting all over, not just by where they were originally found. If it were all up to me I'd change it all back so that those types of units don't only give the ability to build the appropriate units in their cities, they should work how they did in BtS.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
That was going to be part next of my post. When is it that the "base resource" should be considered in the vicinity of all cities. In the case of horses and other animals it should be somewhere in the late Ancient Era, with the caveat that Camels and Elephants should not be available in Arctic cities.
I for one much prefer the Civ III trade mechanic of resources being local, national or international in origin and the affect that has on what you can use them for and when.
rightfuture
Emperor
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The scope of resource movement and trading does seem to have a scalable component.
Some resources are easier to move, like horses being able to be bred elsewhere, and others have limited access. Technology could change those limits easily.
Some things are only available locally. nationally, or internationally at different time periods so this makes a lot of sense. I have to agree with you Dancing Hoskuld, being hyperlocal when availablity is organized differently does not make sense. Resources are available in different ways, at different times. The scope should evolve with circumstance, time, and technology.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
We currently have 349 resources in C2C. Most of which are classified BONUSCLASS_GENERAL. Does anyone see any problem with classifying the culture ones as BONUSCLASS_CULTURE and the manufactured ones (built by any building) as BONUSCLASS_MANUFACTURED? BTW we already have the latter group. This would help organise the other resources or at least help us make sure that food resources only give 
and luxury resources only give 
currently a few give both - figs are an example of the first and mammoth an example of the second. Note neither the culture or manufactured appear on maps so this change should have no game effect.
and luxury resources only give currently a few give both - figs are an example of the first and mammoth an example of the second. Note neither the culture or manufactured appear on maps so this change should have no game effect.
Nimek
Emperor
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You have right but
- horses should be only local (city vicinity resource) when discovered
- horses should be global resource ( available for all cities via trade route) with horse breeding tech
Like I and DH mention many times big amount of resources should be only local until player will discover some techs. In horses case it is horse breeding
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
We currently have 349 resources in C2C. Most of which are classified BONUSCLASS_GENERAL. Does anyone see any problem with classifying the culture ones as BONUSCLASS_CULTURE and the manufactured ones (built by any building) as BONUSCLASS_MANUFACTURED? BTW we already have the latter group. This would help organise the other resources or at least help us make sure that food resources only give
I think its an excellent idea to futher categorize bonuses. I also think some sub-categories for Manufactured resources is a good idea too.
We currently have 349 resources in C2C. Most of which are classified BONUSCLASS_GENERAL. Does anyone see any problem with classifying the culture ones as BONUSCLASS_CULTURE and the manufactured ones (built by any building) as BONUSCLASS_MANUFACTURED? BTW we already have the latter group. This would help organise the other resources or at least help us make sure that food resources only give
I'm fine with BONUSCLASS_MANUFACTURED, but the Culture resources are Hydro's, so he would need to sign off on that.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Would be ecstatic if we could categorize the culture resources in their own unique category.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Depends upon the mushroom, some grow in fields, others caves, some even grown in hydroponic farms. Edible mushrooms are diverse as any plant crop.
Could they get their own improvement? Because ATM I don't think we have a gatherer improvement past the Prehistoric Era, and that is how mushrooms were obtained before modern times (and still are to a large extent).
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
I don't see why not. But that's DH's are of expertise.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
About zeinuls' post, to gather mushrooms from a forest tile the Forest Should Not be chopped or removed. Can you make that happen?
JosEPh
JosEPh
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
We'd need a new improvement for that, like a 'Mushroom Plantation' or somesuch. Not a bad idea though since it irks me too that they tear down the forest for a resource just as easily and in fact probably more effectively grown in something more like their native habitats.
