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C2C - UEM - Ultimate Earth Map 100% MOD and SVN update compatible by Pit2015

Discussion in 'Maps & Scenarios' started by Pit2015, Sep 25, 2015.

  1. Pit2015

    Pit2015 Emperor

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    Just load the game if you still have it and look into taskmanager how mutch RAM its using, you have to go to war early to reduce content of map, maybe in short it it will increase RAM usage because AI send units from citys to map? You can test if it is a RAM problem on your wifes game best this way... you go into WB directly after load dont move anything, then you can delete a entire civ with the "Kill" button, if you kill a civ look RAM usage again if it saved alot or after one turn maybe.

    No big deal currently for UEM i can make timetravel scenarios like if RAM is already enouth to go up to and with modern era is cool, (Option no future area or i mod it to stop by modern) when i make the 1492 colonize scenario with UEM it will go to later eras also. Space age can be missed now as we dont have multimap, but on later stars it may be reached also.

    UEM is large and the save game from arihant shows that alot already is explored, so i bet has nothing to do with exploration, plots also there also if not visibile. But i check now loading the entire map into WB from that save, letz see how mutch RAM is used then... one moment...

    Ok if full map and all units visibil loaded in WB i have on arihants save 2460 MB RAM usage. 400 MB RAM more as in game... so now letz kill a civ... one moment...

    Ok so i deleted inda, he was also already in renaissance era... you dont see that directly if you delete a civ and going out of the WB, no RAM usage change! If you save after leaving WB and then reload the full game and mod you see the RAM change, meens going into WB has a big memory leak, that killing of the civ india saved about 60 MB RAM. Meens deleting 10 civs may save about 400 MB RAM because of different civ sizes. Meens if you can develop a way to save units or stuff from the civs to hdd not into RAM you may be able to save 34 civs still in game x about 40 MB RAM per civ different civ size = 1360 MB RAM or about 1360 MB RAM is now used by civs at this game time.

    So looks like if even only 900 MB RAM still free it may run a while more or far because world is already full of citys and units. We will see...

    Also if you can manage to go into WB in your wifes game, because WB needs 400 MB more RAM it may crash if you close to 2900 MB or 3700 MB RAM usage in your wifes game, if you are able to go into and able to delete some civs go out and save, then reload full game, then you should be able to continue the game if it is realy a RAM problem. If not its a bug mabe that makes a memory leak, flooding the rest of free RAM.

    (Select the civ you want to delete by unit icon "Select unit" in WB, click on a unit from the civ you want to delete then the civ is loaded directly, selecting with menu takes to long, then EDIT PLAYER DATA button then "Kill" to kill full civ, may take a moment...)

    About 40 MB RAM per civ after over 2000 turns dont looks so much, but counts up, if possible to save more to hdd then game can go far beyond.

    (If the game of your wife has less civs in game than in arihants save 34 civs you may be sure its not RAM may be a bug or memoy leak.) Smaller map + less civs then UEM and MAF? Hmm something wrong there...
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
  2. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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  3. Pit2015

    Pit2015 Emperor

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    Can you do a option for early ocean ships? I would like to give all civs the option to colonize early in my standard scenario, get animals from other continents and found colonys early before the world is full of citys. So all ocean ships can travel ocean plots a bit earlyer? Should be a selectable gameoption in WB, so wooden ships beginning from galley and war galley may travel the ocean plots freely, i dont want to mod mod this all the time new after a update and every player can select if he wants to use is or not. Some special ships with this option should be able to travel the oceans and the later wooden ships should have removed optics and astronomy to be needed to enter ocean plots. Can you do this and add it in? If yes i can provide a list of wich ships needs to be modified by that option. Will give more interesting gameplay on some scenarios, well i can mod mod it manually but a option will be better and all gamers can select how they like it. Option: "Early ocean ships"
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
  4. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I have a goal for a seaworthiness modification which would allow earlier travel at risk to the ship and anyone on it.
     
  5. Yudishtira

    Yudishtira Spiritual/Creative

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    Everyone is using this "strong % of land" proviso lately, and saying that my map doesn't have enough land for me to be able to comment.

    My map is Huge and autogenerated. I am in late Modern (the beeline to Info Lifestyle would be 9 techs currently). I have had NO MAFs. Currently still about 15 AIs. Revs, Storms and other "no-nos" all in there (or have the Rev and Storm prophets of doom already been proven wrong?:rolleyes:).

    Maybe I left sealevel random, and got High. What's so terrible about that?
     
  6. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    I guess enough stuff was fixed, that those "no-nos" aren't that bad.
    If one map has 2x less land than other map of same size, then it would be like ~1.9x smaller map (water is less "eventful" than land :p).

    So Pangea players with low sea levels will be more MAF prone than Archipelago players with high sea levels on same map size.
     
  7. Yudishtira

    Yudishtira Spiritual/Creative

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    You mean less land, less stress on the engine (the 1000 vs 1000 unit combats that used to slow down turn times only happen on land it's probably true). It's still a Huge map experience from the player's perspective.

    ETA: All the evidence we have points to [what you say] being true, but we have very little evidence indeed, so we need more. In theory, I would posit that the chance and magnitude of a unit 'arms race' is not affected by how much or little land there is. That is, I would expect a given number of AIs to build up militarily pretty much the same regardless of the map. I think it may be more the personality/traits of the AI leaders involved that may determine why one save will become unplayable while another will not.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
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  8. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    I usually generate maps with the high sea-level setting.
    Exception is if I choose a map size smaller than standard, then I tend to select low water level.
     
  9. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    There's different reasons for reluctance with these. Storms are slow, not data hogging. Rev probably doesn't add much data expense but may slow a notch and may be problems for game balance more for the AI than the player.

    Maps with more land% have more cities with more units to guard and manage them and that's where you get more data being spent faster. A huge map with low land% can be only as taxing as a large map with high land%. Sea level is a minor adjustment compared to land% if the map gives that option. Some maps have NO seas and those will obviously be a LOT more taxing. MAFs happen when the system gets too much data to keep track of. Traits would have next to no impact at all on that. Every unit has some 2 or 300 pieces of data to track on them (I can't remember how many tags per unit there actually are but it's quite a lot) so every unit in the game means more data to track than a particular leader has.
     
    raxo2222 likes this.
  10. Pit2015

    Pit2015 Emperor

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    Never had a problem on lm large map with storms, worked fine for me all the way.
     
  11. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    I'm not sure so if AI had space for 5 or 20 cities, then army size would be same in both cases assuming everything else is same?

    More water means less space for civs.
     
  12. Yudishtira

    Yudishtira Spiritual/Creative

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    Yes but I'm talking about how traits/personalities influence their propensity to spam units.
     
  13. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Sure there would be some indirect effects potentially. If we can balance economies better and make gold a bit harder to manage, that will also help.
     
  14. Pit2015

    Pit2015 Emperor

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    Will be all sloved if you develop a way to save units or more other stuff to hdd not to RAM. :thumbsup: At least units in citys may saved to hdd and only activated and loaded into RAM if enemy unit is close or something like this.

    A unit pool may not take ressources but can give units if needed.

    But game developed already very good, its fun now, AI is way better and i go with my current game as far as i can now and i will build my superpower. Letz see how far to take it and survive or if i can take the world and win on deity/eternity and now without surround and destroy and with realistic sieges. :woohoo:

    C2C is the best way to show ppl that you dont need to buy hundreds of new games, you need good games that keep developing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
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  15. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    1) Something like this might be done for multi-maps
    2) It's WAY out of my league to do it - how to store and access data outside of RAM is currently entirely the realm of a save and load sequence, which is largely, if I understand it correctly, taking place in the EXE. Such an effort would have to be the work of a very practiced and mastered professional level programmer and I am anything but that. There are a lot of macro functions setup to handle this sort of saving and loading and I understand just the tip of that vast iceberg of processing, enough to work with new and existing tags to save and load them properly during save and load and mod loading sequences, and that's about it. HOW it actually works is quite mysterious to me.
    3) I can't even begin to imagine the slowdown this would create. It would absolutely be impossible for MP games, which is currently the best way to get a fast game turn (play a single player game on multi-player setting so the AI can take its turns while you do largely.)
    4) How could this possibly work for the AI? Load in only what's within a plot range of a given unit (even when some units can nearly strike at the entire map from wherever they are?)
    5) The likelihood of a failed interaction with the EXE and thus a very confusing crash scenario is extremely high.
     
  16. Pit2015

    Pit2015 Emperor

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    Well you did already stuff and far beyond you can. :thumbsup: Saving stuff to hdd dont must meen the AI cant use ist, if they use it it is activated, or teach AI to activate reserves if needed. Also on MP games if a unit is in city and not used it may be saved to hdd and dont still in RAM, if player select it or AI it will loaded into RAM. Something like this... should not create more slow down then selecting a unit. Maybe it will make shorter turn times because less units to process? But really 40MB RAM per civ is not so much currently at over 2000 turns and world full, maybe it will run completly thrue and there is already enouth RAM. I will see when i reach 3000/5000 turns, but saving more RAM is always good. But on 5000 turns some civs will be destroyed on the way i bet, at least if i game. :) That meens RAM saving. :)

    I will go this game with mod mod early ocean ships, so full world will be available asap to see full RAM usage, rest i stay on mod rules. Game is good for a long game now, i will take this game as far as possible.

    If RAM gets short i mod mod to stop by modern era and continue game in modern era until one wins. If possible to go further i go, we will see. Turn 650 now.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
  17. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I'm not saying there's not some things I believe I can do, just saying that what you are suggesting, basically a relocating of unit data - a sort of caching - is light years beyond my understanding and I cannot imagine it would not create massive slowdowns as the game stores and restores units with great regularity, even if just to check the potential threats around a given unit, or calculate what unit would be best to attack with in a 200 unit stack.

    To me, it seems the only real solution would be to improve the method of storing some variables and doing all we can to cut down on how many variables are in use and try to identify some variables that never need to be initialized for some units by their type. All that alone is a mega project in itself. And the crappy thing is, work like this is completely unnoticeable because it adds nothing to the game but a little more wiggle room for it to continue past where resources are pushed to the limit.
     
  18. Pit2015

    Pit2015 Emperor

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    Every resource saved will get that game into the future and make it better. Also maybe unit stacks can be limited to 30 units or something? If full use next plot, so largest army can be 50 units and you need 2 armys if you want more. Exept city plots surely. Maybe limit plots to max 50 units or stacks to 50 units limit? So no lags and no RAM leak flooding is possible?
     
  19. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I LOVE 300 unit stacks! Never did understand why anyone would want to limit them... SM does help to keep them reduced at least. The AI problems that establishing a limit creates is pretty severe. Not to say it can't be adapted for better at some point but the current AI structure can kinda not work when limits are introduced.
     
  20. Pit2015

    Pit2015 Emperor

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    If it still works and dont crash or lags the the engine strongly at a point its ok. (calculate what unit would be best to attack with in a 200 unit stack)
     

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