C2C - Units

[ls612]

We do have Guided Missiles (and I'd challenge the assertion that they aren't worth building!) You get a few hundred of those puppies sent down on the enemy and there's not much that can stand up to it.

Sure, they can clear a chokepoint, but then you are probably short on other military assets. IMO they aren't worth it in vanilla, maybe in C2C they are given the larger stacks.

 

[Thunderbrd]

The thing that makes them worthwhile really is the fact that you can build them in a city that gets next to no added xp given to the troops it trains. Thus, cities that are finished and are keeping up with their buildings just fine but aren't made for training troops can plug out missiles. Otherwise research or gold would usually be the relegated use for these up-to-date cities. So they really shouldn't get in the way of the development of more core military assets anyhow.

When you load them up on your naval units you can make your cruisers something to truly fear as well. I found them useful in Vanilla too but you do have to pick your timing on when you want to use these 'magic eraser' units and the frustrating thing about over using them is that you will deny yourself a lot of xp gain from the war.

Another plus - they really tend to intimidate the AI. A huge hoard of them and the AI thinks you VERY powerful.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I used them a lot in vanilla The main problem I had was getting them close enough to where I wanted to use them. For some reason the target was always one plot further than their range.

 

[Azurian]

Are new cultural unique Units going to be added or is that project finished?

 

[Faustmouse]

This unit still needs to be made:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12926892&postcount=101
And yes, please make them single time usw / kamikaze.
Art here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12925701&postcount=100

Also, did you add the Organic Infantry? http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12741122&postcount=90

And I was thinking that the Atompunk could use some units. For example an early Dreadnaught Tank, like the Emperor Overlord in Command And Conquers Generals.

 

[Faustmouse]

@ Hydro (and also Yudishtira, since you are now in charge of units):

Please have a look at the following unit ideas and come up with stats and after that you can also code the unit. I'm sure Sparth can make awesome graphics for them

Note: They all belong in the Atompunk folder and should require Atompunk (Bonus)!


1) Neutron Bomb
Graphics: Use ICBM as a base
requires Advanced Rocketry
requires Atompunk (Bonus)
requires Uranium
requires Aluminium Wares
-20 per turn
costs: ?
Acts like a ICBM
Kills only Units and Population, no damage to buildings; No nuclear Fallout
Kills more units and population than an ICBM

----------------

2) Tactical Neutron Bomb -> Stronger version of Misslies
Graphics: Use V2 Missile or Nuclear Bomb as base
requires Atompunk (Bonus)
requires Uranium
requires Aluminium
-10 per turn
costs: ?
Range 10
Movement: 2
Strength: 100
can Evade Interception (50%)
causes colleteral damage (max 100% to 10 units)
single use only
Should not have the Diplo Penalty of a nuke!


---------------

3) Emperor Overlord:
Graphics: Use Dreadnaugt Tank as Base
Extremely strong but slow;
has a Gatling Gun on top so can:
Evade Aircrafts
Bonus against Soldiers, tanks, Cars, Animals...
No Persuit / Withdrawn skills
no acess to the Nuclear Powered Enginge Promotion (that will be implented later so ignore that for now)

----------------

4) Fast Assault Tank:
Starts with the Reaktor Promotion (again, don't bother now)
3 Movement
High Persuit / Withdrawn values
slightly weaker than similar tanks
If possible it should have an attached missile that allows it for a strong first hit and after that weaker. I think this is what Firststrikes do now but TB is going to change them. But so far, 1 Firststrike would be fine.

-----------------

5) Earlier Tesla Unit
Use Telsa Infantry as Base and make this one weaker
requires High Energy Lab

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Faustmouse

Sorry I have not been active too much. Consider me on a semi-holiday. I will try to read the forums when I can but don't expect me to be modding or going into super planning.

However from just skimming it over those sound like good ideas.

 

[Yudishtira]

I would be loath to help perpetuate the ideologically-charged Cold War myth that neutron bombs don't damage buildings. I don't know much about what Atompunk is, but I think in C2C it should steer clear of propaganda.

Also, they were actually built (without the above superpower that is), so they don't need to be alt-timeline do they?

 

[Faustmouse]

I would be loath to help perpetuate the ideologically-charged Cold War myth that neutron bombs don't damage buildings. I don't know much about what Atompunk is, but I think in C2C it should steer clear of propaganda.

Also, they were actually built (without the above superpower that is), so they don't need to be alt-timeline do they?

I thought about the neutron bombs in Command and Conquers Generals. They do VERY little damage to buildings in the game. Maybe neutron bombs in real live weren't as "harmless" then those, but Atompunk is about how the future was viewn after WWII. So you could imagine an advanced neutron bomb. Or do you say this is actually physically impossible?

Would you like to come up with stats for those units since Hydro is taking a little break?

 

[Jarolleon]

Grenadiers are incredibly powerful for their era, they have 27 strength, which is the same as cavalry, and they also get a city attack bonus and early withdrawal. They also come at explosives, which can be reached far easier than rifling and gives benefits besides access to military units. This makes riflemen completely useless for everything except defending a stack from cavalry. I for one have edited their strength down to 24 but I am wondering, is this intended?

 

[Thunderbrd]

Grenadiers are incredibly powerful for their era, they have 27 strength, which is the same as cavalry, and they also get a city attack bonus and early withdrawal. They also come at explosives, which can be reached far easier than rifling and gives benefits besides access to military units. This makes riflemen completely useless for everything except defending a stack from cavalry. I for one have edited their strength down to 24 but I am wondering, is this intended?

I figured they might be a little too powerful as they are at the moment. Might not be a bad idea to edit them down some. I think Rifleman may soon find some ways to match them though... some new added benefits are headed their way. So perhaps it is best not to jump the gun... lol.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Spoiler :

Here is a visual guide to the new Archery and Siege Units.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Skirmishers should probably upgrade to Ancient Grenadiers rather than Musketmen. Keep them in line with other throwing units.

I can't recall at the moment how I'd envisioned the structure but I recall thinking that moving the Axe Thrower into the core and out of the realm of purely cultural unit so that it could fill an upgrade position on the throwing line. Anyhow, I'll look into that later but I don't believe that there's any good reason to have skirmishers move into the rifle side of gunpowder... better to keep them moving through the grenadier throwing progression.

Otherwise this looks pretty good. Maybe we need a War Slinger unit to fill the 3 pt space there too.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Where is the scorpion!

I thought some of this was going to be sorted by equipment promotions. So that you have Archer str 4 with promotions
- obsidian tips +25% str ie str 5
- copper/bronze tips +50% str ie str 6
- iron tips +75% str ie str 7

This means that you may have inferior archery tech but superior units because they have better equipment. I thought that was what we were after.

 

[Sparth]

BellyBowman - any more info about this unit?

 

[Hydromancerx]

BellyBowman - any more info about this unit?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastraphetes

Basically a composite bow mounted to a shaft that is pulled back using your belly. In other words very primitive type of crossbow.

Note that all the new units use existing graphics except for their buttons. Any custom graphics would be appreciated.

New Unit = Old Graphic
- Composite Bowman = Archer
- Bellybowman = Light Crossbowman
- Oxybeles = Ballista
- Lithobolos = Catapult
- Siege Onager = Catapult

 

[Hydromancerx]

Where is the scorpion!

I have been trying to figure out where it should fit in. In AoEI and AoeII some of the progression is weir so instead I went to more historical sources instead. I also wanted to keep with what we got.

For instance the Lithobolos, Onager, Mangonel are all types of Catapults. At the moment the unit we call the "Catapult" is taking the place of the mangonel even if its not named that.

Here is a good page on it ...

http://www.stormthecastle.com/catapult/development-timeline-of-the-catapult.htm

Thus the Gastrophetes (Belly Bow) and Oxybeles are "Flexion" powered siege. Oxybeles also launched arrows/bolts.

Ballista is similar to the 2 above but is "Torsion" based and also launches arrows/bolts.

Mangonel is also "Torsion" based but launches rocks in a bucket. This is how ourabse game catapult is.

Then you have the Onager which is also "Torsion" based but uses a sling instea of a bucket.

And finally the Trebuchet which has a weight that falls and thus is "Gravity" powered. It too uses a Sling. So I am thinking maybe it should be

Lithobolos -> Mangonel (Catapult) -> Onager -> Trebuchet

Since the Trebuchet and Onager both uses slings.

However back to your question with the Scopion is very similar to the Balista however its usually smaller and was more of a sniper weapon. Note it was also similar to the Oxybeles in size but of course still torsion like a ballista.

So the question is where should the Scopion go? How should it differ from the Ballista?

Basically Ancient Ballistics marks where Torsion is used. Ancient Machinery still has Flection Siege Engines.

Should the Balista get moved back to Siege Warfare and then the Scopion be at Ancient Ballistics? So like ...

Archer (4) -> Bellybowman (5) -> Oxybeles (6) -> Scorpion (7) -> Ballista (8)

What do you think?

 

[Sparth]

Hydro, in this new unit upgrade sheet bellybowman exist and light crossbowman too.
IMHO better remove these two unit and add one: early crossbowman.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Hydro, in this new unit upgrade sheet bellybowman exist and light crossbowman too.
IMHO better remove these two unit and add one: early crossbowman.

Well the Light Crossbowman is actually more representing the Cheiroballistra or "Hand Ballista". Note we could always rename the Light Crossbowman to Hand Ballista or Cheiroballistra if we want.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

However back to your question with the Scopion is very similar to the Balista however its usually smaller and was more of a sniper weapon. Note it was also similar to the Oxybeles in size but of course still torsion like a ballista.

So the question is where should the Scopion go? How should it differ from the Ballista?

...

What do you think?

All I know is that the Roman army was able to lay siege to a chief's village in Britannia and win the battle with no loss of life on their side by using a number of scorpions to pick off the chief's family from a safe distance. When enough were dead the village surrendered.