C2C - Units

[Yudishtira]

@Hydro
In-game it gives me half the withdraw %ages that I put in the XML. I suppose you know that (unless its something very new), so did you allow for it or should I double them?

Also I suppose you know the ranged bombard %ages are hugely increased (+60/+80/+60 iirc) by the Fully Automatic Weapons combat class. Please confirm...

 

[Thunderbrd]

If the game is on Fight or Flight the units have the full amount of withdrawal shown in the xml but half if not. (Balances to no pursuit)

I wouldn't stress on the ranged bombard tags... with the introduction of the new railgun weaponry going to be developed into the mix some adjustments will have to be made across the board. Are you kinda clear on how the unit can be assigned according to the charts for these values? (Note, charts are included in my sigline.)

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Yudishtira

I don't know. TB would know whats up with all that advanced combat stuff. TB may need to give balanced stats for that.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Yeah, just list the unit in the unit review thread with the reminder to review bombard and withdrawal values.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Yudishtira

Kathy made some custom unit graphics for us so here are the units.

Camel Cuirassier
Graphic: Here
Icon: ?
Type: Mounted (and Stuff)
Strength: 14
Movement: 2
Cost: 250
Req Tech: Matchlock AND Armored Calvary
Req Resource: Camels AND Sulphur AND Firearms
Req Building: Camel Trainer
Upgrades To: Camel Carabanier

Special Abilities

• Doesn't Receive Defensive Bonuses
• -20% City Attack
• -25% Forest Attack
• -50% Jungle Attack
• +50% vs Mounted
• +50% vs SiegeDesign (Wooden)
• Can withdraw from Combat (15% Chance)
• 0-1 First Chance Strikes
• Can Perform Ranged Attacks
• Range Bombard Distant +1
• Range Bombard Accuracy: +10%
• Range Bombard Damage: +10%
• Range Bombard Damage Limit: +10%
• Starts with Commando, Desert Combat I, Desert Combat II, Desert Combat III

---

Note this next one is giving a new name and new stats to the Camel Gunner. But it would keep the old tags.

Camel Carabanier
Graphic: Camel Gunner
Icon: Camel Gunner
Type: Mounted (and Stuff)
Strength: 20
Movement: 2
Cost: 300
Req Tech: Calvary Tactics
Req Resource: Camels AND Sulphur AND Firearms
Req Building: Camel Trainer
Upgrades To: Camel Calvary

Special Abilities

• Doesn't Receive Defensive Bonuses
• -20% City Attack
• -25% Forest Attack
• -50% Jungle Attack
• +50% vs Mounted
• +50% vs SiegeDesign (Wooden)
• Can withdraw from Combat (15% Chance)
• 0-1 First Chance Strikes
• Can Perform Ranged Attacks
• Range Bombard Distant +1
• Range Bombard Accuracy: +10%
• Range Bombard Damage: +10%
• Range Bombard Damage Limit: +10%
• Starts with Commando, Desert Combat I, Desert Combat II, Desert Combat III

---

Camel Calvary
Graphic: Here
Icon: ?
Type: Mounted (and Stuff)
Strength: 26
Movement: 2
Cost: 420
Req Tech: Military Tradition AND Rifling
Req Resource: Camels AND Ammunition AND Firearms
Req Building: Camel Trainer
Upgrades To: Trench Camel Calvary

Special Abilities

• Doesn't Receive Defensive Bonuses
• -20% City Attack
• -25% Forest Attack
• -50% Jungle Attack
• +50% vs Mounted
• +50% vs SiegeDesign (Wooden)
• Can withdraw from Combat (15% Chance)
• 0-1 First Chance Strikes
• Can Perform Ranged Attacks
• Range Bombard Distant +1
• Range Bombard Accuracy: +10%
• Range Bombard Damage: +10%
• Range Bombard Damage Limit: +10%
• Starts with Commando, Desert Combat I, Desert Combat II, Desert Combat III

Notes: Use Camel Gunner as a Base

---

Trench Camel Calvary
Graphic: Here
Icon: ?
Type: Mounted (and Stuff)
Strength: 32
Movement: 2
Cost: 640
Req Tech: Trench Warfare
Req Resource: Camels AND Ammunition AND Firearms
Req Building: Camel Trainer
Upgrades To: Armored Car, Autogyro

Special Abilities

• Doesn't Receive Defensive Bonuses
• -20% City Attack
• -25% Forest Attack
• -50% Jungle Attack
• +50% vs Mounted
• +50% vs SiegeDesign (Wooden)
• Can withdraw from Combat (15% Chance)
• 0-1 First Chance Strikes
• Can Perform Ranged Attacks
• Range Bombard Distant +1
• Range Bombard Accuracy: +10%
• Range Bombard Damage: +10%
• Range Bombard Damage Limit: +10%
• Starts with Commando, Desert Combat I, Desert Combat II, Desert Combat III, Trench I

Notes: Use Camel Gunner as a Base

---

Also note that the Camel Archer and Camel Knight will need to upgrade to the Camel Cuirassier instead of he Camel Gunner.

Thanks!

 

[Thunderbrd]

If we do put those in during the freeze here, please let me know immediately. My primary task work today is catching up on all unit reviews that still need them.

 

[Hydromancerx]

If we do put those in during the freeze here, please let me know immediately. My primary task work today is catching up on all unit reviews that still need them.

Well its up to how fast Yudishtira can add them. Balance wise they should be fine since the Horse based cavalry seem to work fine. These are just filling the missing gaps for the Camel line of Mounted units.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I'm not against them being added... I'll just need to review them as soon as they have been is all so that I can make sure I've not overlooked any units when we release.

 

[Hale_9204]

Hi all, it's been a while since I last posted but unfortunately I had many things to do, so I hadn't played Civ since march or so on

Anyway, I started a game tonight (rev 7568) and I was able to build Hawaiaan culture; the point is that with that I was able to build the Koa (unique hawaiaan unit, replacement for light swordman I think) which is a size 7 strength, long before I researched tribalism. So i am in the prehistoric era and I can build units with double the strength of the units I will face for a lot of time. Has it always been like this or is it simply a missing prerequisite? In my opinion, at the moment it's quite game-breaking

 

[Thunderbrd]

Hi all, it's been a while since I last posted but unfortunately I had many things to do, so I hadn't played Civ since march or so on

Anyway, I started a game tonight (rev 7568) and I was able to build Hawaiaan culture; the point is that with that I was able to build the Koa (unique hawaiaan unit, replacement for light swordman I think) which is a size 7 strength, long before I researched tribalism. So i am in the prehistoric era and I can build units with double the strength of the units I will face for a lot of time. Has it always been like this or is it simply a missing prerequisite? In my opinion, at the moment it's quite game-breaking

It's one of a number of identified units that have this issue of imbalancing that we'll be looking into at some point soon. We need to find them ALL to really correct it. In the meantime it's a bit of a random exploit or challenge (your opponents may find a route to one of these superpower units too.)

When opponents were coming up against me in the last game I played with these super units I didn't find them impossible to overcome - just difficult. So it was an interesting challenge at least. Since they aren't impossible to work with it's not so high a priority as to attempt to address before release but it should be sorted out by the next one I think.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Hi all, it's been a while since I last posted but unfortunately I had many things to do, so I hadn't played Civ since march or so on

Anyway, I started a game tonight (rev 7568) and I was able to build Hawaiaan culture; the point is that with that I was able to build the Koa (unique hawaiaan unit, replacement for light swordman I think) which is a size 7 strength, long before I researched tribalism. So i am in the prehistoric era and I can build units with double the strength of the units I will face for a lot of time. Has it always been like this or is it simply a missing prerequisite? In my opinion, at the moment it's quite game-breaking

Yes it was intended for that. Oceania doesn't get many cultures to get so I tried to make some of them a bit more powerful. For instance the Polynesian Outrigger can travel in the ocean long before other ships can.

 

[Harrier]

Yes it was intended for that. Oceania doesn't get many cultures to get so I tried to make some of them a bit more powerful. For instance the Polynesian Outrigger can travel in the ocean long before other ships can.

Interesting. Wondering, should I add Polynesia to my Custom Civs SEM map? The Hawaii islands is only one tile. But I could add more sea resources to let them grow. It may make Oceania more interesting.

Also, I have to include the Polynesia Civ in the scenario anyway, because of Art defines.

Currently I have Aborigines and Maori.

Interested to read your thoughts on this.

 

[strategyonly]

What exactly is the Park Ranger good for, i dont see anything it can do, or for that matter any good for??

And for that matter, same goes for the Bulldozer??

 

[Hydromancerx]

What exactly is the Park Ranger good for, i dont see anything it can do, or for that matter any good for??

Reducing Air and Water Pollution. Plus it can build some nature things (same as workers can).

Basically ...

Anti-Crime = Police / Town Watchmen
Anti-Disease = Healers
Anti-Pollution = Park Rangers / Environmentalists

And for that matter, same goes for the Bulldozer??

Here is what the bulldozer is suppose to do ...

@Dancing Hoskuld

So I noticed in the "Mars Now!" mod that they have a terrain improvement called "Create Hill". However I did not see a "Make Flat" or anything so I wondered if it would be possible to add both of those to the game. In addition these would not be possible on normal Workers but to a Bulldozer and Terraformer units. Here are my ideas/requests.

Create Hill
Req Tech: Civil Engineering
- Can Be Made on Flatland Only
- Makes Flatland into a Hill of the same type of terrain
- Made by Bulldozer OR Terraformer

Create Peak
Req Tech: Megastucture Engineering
- Can Be Made on Hill Only
- Makes Hill into a Peak
- Made by Terraformer

Remove Peak
Req Tech: Megastucture Engineering
- Can Be Made on Peak Only
- Makes Peak into a Barren Hill
- Made by Terraformer

Remove Hill
Req Tech: Civil Engineering
- Can Be Made on Hill Only
- Makes Hill into Flatland of the Same Type
- Made by Bulldozer OR Terraformer

Martian

Martian Dunes -> Marian Desert -> Martian Rocky -> Martian Barren -> Barren -> Plains -> Grassland -> Lush

Martian Ice -> Martian Permafrost -> Martian Barren -> Barren -> Plains -> Grassland -> Lush

Martian Plains -> Plains -> Grassland -> Lush

Terraform to Marian Desert
Req Tech: Planetary Terraforming
- Can Be Made on Martian Dunes Only
- Makes Marian Dunes into Marian Desert
- Made by Terraformer

Terraform to Marian Rocky
Req Tech: Planetary Terraforming
- Can Be Made on Martian Desert Only
- Makes Marian Desert into Marian Rocky
- Made by Terraformer

Terraform to Martian Permafrost
Req Tech: Planetary Terraforming
- Can Be Made on Martian Ice Only
- Makes Martian Ice into Martian Permafrost
- Made by Terraformer

Terraform to Martian Barren
Req Tech: Planetary Terraforming
- Can Be Made on Martian Rocky or Martian Permafrost
- Makes Martian Rocky or Martian Permafrost into Martian Barren
- Made by Terraformer

Lunar

Lunar Basalt -> Lunar Desert -> Lunar Rocky -> Lunar Barren -> Barren -> Plains -> Grassland -> Lush

Lunar Plains -> Plains -> Grassland -> Lush

Terraform to Lunar Desert
Req Tech: Lunar Terraforming
- Can Be Made on Lunar Basalt Only
- Makes Lunar Basalt into Lunar Desert
- Made by Terraformer

Terraform to Lunar Rocky
Req Tech: Lunar Terraforming
- Can Be Made on Lunar Desert Only
- Makes Lunar Desert into Lunar Rocky
- Made by Terraformer

Terraform to Lunar Barren
Req Tech: Lunar Terraforming
- Can Be Made on Lunar Rocky Only
- Makes Lunar Rocky into Lunar Barren
- Made by Terraformer

Earth

Salt Flats -> Dunes -> Desert -> Scrub -> Rocky -> Barren -> Plains -> Grassland -> Lush

Ice -> Permafrost -> Tundra -> Barren -> Plains -> Grassland -> Lush

Marsh -> Muddy -> Lush

Terraform to Barren
Req Tech: ?
- Can Be Made on Martian Barren, Lunar Barren or Rocky or Tundra
- Makes Martian Barren or Lunar Barren or Rocky or Tundra into Barren
- Made by Terraformer

Notes: Martian Barren and Lunar Barren should be unlocked later.

Terraform to Plains
Req Tech: ?
- Can Be Made on Martian Plains or Lunar Plains or Barren
- Makes Martian Plains or Lunar Plains or Barren into Plains
- Made by Terraformer

Notes: Martian Plains and Lunar Plains should be unlocked later.

Vehicles

Bulldozer
Req Tech: Civil Engineering AND Motorized Transportation
Graphic: Here
Icon: ?
Req Resource: Automobile AND (Oil Products OR Biofuel)
Type: Worker
Strength: 20
Movement: 2
Upgrades From: -
Upgrades To: Terraformer

• This Unit is Tradable
• Can Only Defend
• Can Create Hill and Remove Hill
• Can Remove Forest, Jungle, Bamboo, Savanna, Tall Grass, Peat, Swamp, Cactus, etc.
• Cost +4 Per Turn

Notes: Should Do Limited Tasks faster than Modern Workers

Terraformer
Graphic: Former (From Planetfall)
Icon: ?
Req Tech: Wealther Control
Req Resource: Automobile AND (Oil Products OR Biofuel)
Type: Worker
Strength: 40
Movement: 2
Upgrades From: Bulldozer and Ecologist
Upgrades To: -

• This Unit is Tradable
• Can Only Defend
• Can Create Hill, Create Peak, Remove Hill and Remove Peak
• Can Remove Forest, Jungle, Bamboo, Tall Grass, Peat, Swamp, Cactus, etc.
• Can Terraform All Types of Terrains
• Can Create Forest, Jungle, Bamboo, Savanna, Tree Farm, Hybrid Forest, Safari, Sanitize, Preserve Site.
• -20 Air Pollution Per Turn (City)
• -20 Air Pollution Per Turn (Plot)
• -20 Water Pollution Per Turn (City)
• -20 Water Pollution Per Turn (Plot)
• Cost +10 Per Turn

Notes: Only the Terraformer should be able to Terraform terrain. All other workers should not be able to anymore.

Many, MANY thanks in advance!

Drain Tarpit
Req Tech: Civil Engineering
- Removes Tarpit
- Made by Bulldozer OR Terraformer

Remove Landmark
Req Tech: Civil Engineering
- Removes Landmarks
- Made by Bulldozer OR Terraformer

Remove Crater
Req Tech: Civil Engineering
- Removes Crater, Small Crater, Medium Crater or Large Crater
- Made by Bulldozer OR Terraformer

 

[strategyonly]

Reducing Air and Water Pollution. Plus it can build some nature things (same as workers can).

Basically ...

Anti-Crime = Police / Town Watchmen
Anti-Disease = Healers
Anti-Pollution = Park Rangers / Environmentalists



Here is what the bulldozer is suppose to do ...

Well as you can see in the pic, rangers dont do anything at all. Even if in city.
Bulldozers wont do anything until after terraforming, so why is it in then before then??

 

[Hydromancerx]

Well as you can see in the pic, rangers dont do anything at all. Even if in city.
Bulldozers wont do anything until after terraforming, so why is it in then before then??

DH was suppose to add that stuff but he never did it. That's why the bulldozers were there. To do early terraforming like add/removing hills and Remove Forest, Jungle, Bamboo, Savanna, Tall Grass, Peat, Swamp, Cactus, etc.

 

[Yudishtira]

DH was suppose to add that stuff but he never did it. That's why the bulldozers were there. To do early terraforming like add/removing hills and Remove Forest, Jungle, Bamboo, Savanna, Tall Grass, Peat, Swamp, Cactus, etc.

I think there is a Remove Forest button in SO's pic...

 

[Thunderbrd]

When I did a basic land worker audit I saw about 3 build existing on the bulldozer. Because it was so limited and not part of the scope of what I was working on I didn't look any further before deleting it from the layout I was focused on.

However, it could be easily added to and further planned out with this document. That doc lists all land builds in the first column so you can easily go down the list and pick which ones you want for the BD.

Note that the BD is basically much like a version of Combat Worker and ls612 had retracted his for good reasons. I do want to go back and figure out what those reasons are though cuz I'm getting sick of workers and settlers not having any strength at all.

 

[Yudishtira]

Camel Cuirassier
Can withdraw from Combat (15% Chance)

I'm putting this in as 15% (same for all 4 units), so without Fight of Flight it goes down to 7. If that 's not what you mean, pls let me know ASAP.

Also, the unitcombat for rifles is the same as that for arquebuses and muskets. I suggest a small increment (for arquebus -> musket -> rifle) in the ranged attack values is in order. I'll do +5% per step for accuracy, damage & max damage unless I hear otherwise.

 

[Hydromancerx]

1. I was just using the default value for Withdraw. So whatever the other equivalent units have.

2. Yeah. See the Horse units for combat classes except substitute in camel instead of horse.