C3C - SID - Rise of Carthage - as guided by Spoonwood

[AnthonyIII]

It looks good, I moved the worker to one of the cows and I think I can see incense. A lux is always nice to have. I'm up for it, but I suggest you start first Spoonwood - so we get a good start. Would you like to? Maybe we should hear from creamcheese and Elephantium, but to me it looks good. River, cows, incense, hills...

 

[creamcheese]

It looks fine to me, if that's what the team wants, let's get to it.

Same order as before then? With Spoonwood leading off and me following?

 

[Spoonwood]

It was Elephantium's turn. If he wants to go first, that seems appropriate and fine with me. The 20k site almost surely should go at the 3-3 spot from where the settler lies now, or the 3-3-3 spot. The worker should irrigate the cow NOT on the river first. Road it, and then mine and road the other cow. If Elephantium doesn't want to go, then I'll go.

 

[Elephantium]

This early in the game, I'll be up soon enough. Take 'er away, Spoonwood!

 

[Spoonwood]

1-4000 BC move worker, plant in place and start research.

2-3950 BC irrigate.

3-3900 BC swap from river cow to game for a turn.

4-3850 BC swap from game to cow which will get irrigated next turn.

5-3800 BC road.

6-3750 BC zzz..

7-3700 BC move worker to the 3-3 spot from 001. See Game and a mountain.

8-3650 BC road.

9-3600 BC zzz.

10-3550 BC move worker to cow on river. Thought about scouting with it, but decided against it.

11-3500 BC cultural expansion reveals cow and wheat to the south, and incense in the north. Mine cow.

12-3450 BC Debate whether to put 002 in the 3-3 spot or the 3-3-3 spot. We have 7 hills and a mountain and more grasslands in the 3-3-3 spot. We have 8 hills and a mountain in the 3-3 spot. Even though it'll take a turn longer to found the city, I decide on the 3-3-3 spot hoping it has some nice juicy bgs around, or another cow. I see an incense hill in the 3-3-3 spot, so it has 8 hill also.

13-3400 BC plant 002 and it has two BGs which we'll have access to once we can get a 3rd city down. Start on Pyramids.

14-3350 BC zzz

15-3300 BC mine completes. Worker roads.

16-3250 BC zzz.

17-3200 BC 001 curragh-settler.

18-3150 BC 002 hits size 2. Swap 001 off of mined cow and put it on a forest, as it has 3 food. Swap settler to warrior. 002 gets the mined cow. The worker mines.

19-3100 BC 001 warrior-settler, swapping from forest to the BG. Warrior goes out to scout a little.

20-3050 BC Just some scouting.

The third city needs to go at the 3-3-3 spot from 002 so that we have access to both BGs and the incense hill. After the settler 001 can put out a warrior or two, and a worker. In 1 turn 001 can swap from the BG to the spot where the worker is mining right now. After mining and roading, the worker should go the 2 spot from 002 which comes next to the mountain and a hill. It's a grassland spot near one of the BGs. It'll mine here first, then road, and then go develop those BGs, if I've time the founding of the 3rd city correctly. 002, of course, uses the game next, the square it's mining right now, then the 2 spot square, and then BGs. It should also stay at 5 food per turn, so we can use the extra forest every time it grows.

Please make sure we don't do any suicide runs until we've discussed things. The same goes for tech trading. Also, make sure we have 2 warriors in 002 in 31 turns, the turn we learn Writing.

 

[creamcheese]

Aright, I've got it and will play this evening. Looks like another promising start, just have to hope no one goes for the Pyramids too early.

 

[creamcheese]

Pretty pre-scripted set .

Turn Log:

Spoiler :

Turn -1, 3050BC; Did you mean to post the 3050BC save Spoonwood? I'll just play 11 turns. Hit enter.

IBT; zzz

Turn 0, 3000BC; Scouting.

IBT; 002 grows, worker finishes mine.

Turn 1, 2950BC; worker roads, MM 001 to new mine. 002 is already working the game forest. Scouting. Lux to 30%.

IBT; zzz

Turn 2, 2900BC; Scouting.

IBT; worker finishes road.

Turn 3, 2850BC; Worker to grassland south of 002. Scouting

IBT; zzz

Turn 4, 2800BC; Worker mines. scouting.

IBT; 002 grows.

Turn 5, 2750BC; MM 001 back to the BG, and 002 works the square 001 was on. Lux to 40%, warrior on his way home for MP. Scouting.

IBT; 001 grows, settler-->warrior.

Turn 6, 2710BC; Settler to 002 along roads, headed for 3SE spot for BG and inscense. Scouting.

IBT; zzz

Turn 7, 2670BC; Settler moves to mountain, scouting.

IBT; worker finishes mine.

Turn 8, 2630BC; Worker roads. Move settler, scouts.

IBT; 002 grows.

Turn 9, 2590BC; MM 002 to new grassland mine. MM 001 for gold. Warrior arrives at 002. Settler arrives at the spot (will have a volcano and some wheat in its' fat cross). Scouting with curragh, finds wines on the southeast of our island!

IBT; 001 warrior-->warrior.

Turn 10, 2550BC; MM 001 for shields. Warrior to 002. Worker to BG. Found 003-->worker. Curragh scouts. Lux down to 20%, now that we have 2 MPs.

Only thing I might have done differently would be to road the grassland south of 002 before mining to get the settler for 003 there one turn faster, but then we would have had the mine a turn too late, so it was a no go.

We do have two luxes on our island, and got our second settler out faster than before, we'll see how it goes.

 

[Spoonwood]

Did you mean to post the 3050BC save Spoonwood?

Yes, the 20th turn is 3050 BC. I double counted a turn before. But, it doesn't matter really.

AnthonyIII, I'd change 001 to a curragh, then have it put out a worker. I think it'll work best for that worker to chop the game (towards a settler, maybe?), and then irrigate it. When 002 hits size 7 we might want it to use a forest instead of a mined grassland. The worker from 003, I think, can road up that incense. The worker currently on the BGs, of course, mines first, and then roads for both of the BGs.

 

[creamcheese]

Yes, the 20th turn is 3050 BC. I double counted a turn before. But, it doesn't matter really.

AnthonyIII, I'd change 001 to a curragh, then have it put out a worker. I think it'll work best for that worker to chop the game (towards a settler, maybe?), and then irrigate it. When 002 hits size 7 we might want it to use a forest instead of a mined grassland. The worker from 003, I think, can road up that incense. The worker currently on the BGs, of course, mines first, and then roads for both of the BGs.

The SG convention is usually to go by the victory screen counter, which makes 3000bc turn 20, but it doesn't really matter so w/e.

Yes, I forgot to mention that the warrior may want to be changed, as we already have two and our island is mostly scouted.

 

[AnthonyIII]

Got it. Well played both of you, our start is loooking quite good. I will make a note of what you said, Spoonwood and swap the warrior for a worker. I plan to play tonight(european time), and if something comes to mind, just shout out. I'm wondering though, would it be possible to play this as a normal SG-game, but for me it would be a TDG? So after my turnsets, I get some feedback and thoughts from all of you, as I still have a lot to learn. Then this SG will be very informative for players less experienced as well! If it's too much trouble that's also OK.

-No suicide runs with curragh
-Worker for warrior
-No trade until discussed here
-Follow Spoonwood's advises in post 68.

Think it will be fine. Will post some pics for the lurkers as well.

 

[creamcheese]

? warrior for curragh, we don't have the growth for another worker in 001. Worker after curragh.

I'll try to give you any tips if I can, just remember to be detailed in your log so we can retrace your steps.

 

[AnthonyIII]

Superb.

 

[Spoonwood]

No suicide runs with curragh

If you think a suicide run beneficial, stop, and post the save for discussion. Generally speaking, you want to have as much sea as you can scouted before attempting a suicide run. Also, when attempting one, if you can do so without wasting movement, it works best to end a turn in a sea square instead of an ocean square. My general rule for suicide runs comes as to look towards the center of the map.

And yes, curragh, then worker.

 

[Elephantium]

Yes, the 20th turn is 3050 BC. I double counted a turn before. But, it doesn't matter really.

F8 and CA II both count it as Turn 19...are you counting 4000 BC as "Turn 1"?

 

[AnthonyIII]

2550 BC: Look around. Nice that we have three cities already. Swap 001 from warrior to curragh. Writing due in 2. Hit enter.

2510 BC: Fortifies warrior in 002, as we've done quite a bit of scouting already and I can scout the bottom of the island with our curragh. Worker on BG starts mining.

2470 BC: Curragh sails along our island. See a gold hill not far from the wines, that's nice.

2430: 002 grows to size 6, lux to 30%. Curragh continue to scout, looks like the east of our island consists mainly of mountains. Good chanches of iron I'd say.

2390 BC: Scout with curragh, see we have another gold hill.

2350 BC: Curragh done in 001. 001 starts on worker, growth in 1. New curragh goes north. The worker mining the BG outside of 003 is finished. Starts road. Swap worked tile in 003 from regular BG to mined BG. Hmm. When doing so, the worker completes in 3 and the city first raches size two in 5. 3 turns to put out a warrior. OK, so I give 002 the mined BG, taking our progress on the Pyramids to 28 turns left instead of 31. 003 back to reg BG, worker in 5, growth in 5. When doing so, I see that 002 now require not 30%, but 40% lux. Oh well. I'm generous. Old curragh continue along our island.

2310 BC: Our curraghs scout, nothing to report.

2270 BC: Same as above. Worker finishes road on mined BG outside of 003, I move to the BG next to it. Lux back to 30%.

2230 BC: Worker starts new min on BG outside 003. Worker finished in 001, move to game. 002 grows to size 7, Pyramids in 23. Writing in 12. Our curraghs meet 7 tiles south of 001. Looks like another island is pretty close. Lux to 40%. Check the forum. Spoonwood wrote that when 002 hits size 7 it could use a forest instead of a mined grassland. All the forests are already in use, so I just leave it. I can't get to any more shields yet. Hit enter.

2190 BC: Worker outside 001 begins chopping game/forest towards a settler in 001, as suggested in our forum thread. 001 is only at size 1 though and won't grow for 7 turns. Looks odd to me but maybe we can use the shields to something else. 003 will complete worker next turn. Reach new coast with one of the curraghs. The other one won't reach it in one turn so I fortify it, to move it next turn. I decide to stop here so that Elephantium can change 001 if he wants before the chop is finished. Things looks good. I tried to stick to the plan laid out by Spoonwood in post 68 as much as I could. Hope I did OK. Will post pictures later!

Elephantium, you're up!

 

[Spoonwood]

F8 and CA II both count it as Turn 19...are you counting 4000 BC as "Turn 1"?

Yes, I counted 4000 BC as turn 1. I guess I should count it as turn 0.

2550 BC: Look around. Nice that we have three cities already. Swap 001 from warrior to curragh. Writing due in 2. Hit enter

I think you meant 20 instead of 2.

I'm not sure when you timed the switching of tiles to the BG. The time to do so isn't when the mine has completed, but rather 1 turn before the mine completes. You can check how many turns a worker (or stack of workers) has left on a project by right-clicking. Just make sure that you don't tell it stop! Then you decline to change it's job.

We need a save.

 

[AnthonyIII]

Indeed we do. Sorry for that, here it is!

EDIT: Spoonwood, I did not know that. So you're assuming correct, I did not time it properly, I switched the turn the mine was finished... I learn something new every day with this game!

 

[Spoonwood]

"I'm not sure when you timed the switching of tiles to the BG. The time to do so isn't when the mine has completed, but rather 1 turn before the mine completes. You can check how many turns a worker (or stack of workers) has left on a project by right-clicking. Just make sure that you don't tell it stop! Then you decline to change it's job."

You can also use the same basic idea here to change the luxury slider the turn a road will complete (swap the tile which will get roaded with a tile which has one more commerce, and then swap back) for extra commerce. Or when you'll hook up a luxury.

 

[AnthonyIII]

Great Spoonwood, keep those tips coming!

 

[Spoonwood]

Not sure I have much more for you AnthonyIII on your turns. I might have actually had the eastern curragh suicide somewhere... but what you did may actually work better... we will see.

I'm not sure what to chop towards in 001. We could chop towards another curragh, or have the worker wake and lose 1 turn (not a big deal), put out a warrior, and then chop towards a curragh or settler. I think chopping towards a curragh, even with the shield waste, will work out better, and then we can have that curragh go up past the marsh island and try a suicide run up there somewhere. Good luck on whatever you want to do here Elephantium!

After the worker mining finishes and roads that square, I think it best to have it road the forest. Also, the worker will finish the mine in 3 turns. So, 002 should use the mined spot along the river for two turns, and then use the new BG mine on turn 3. On turn 4, leave things the same. Then, on turn 5 swap from the forest back to the mined regular grassland square. When 002 hits size 8, it can use the forest again for a while. After the incense hill gets roaded, we might want to add that worker into 002, but then again maybe not. It can help towards the Pyramids/Oracle, but in my previous games I've sometimes overbuilt the Museum of Mausollos by a little too much after the Pyramids/Oracle (Oracle works better). If we can get a temple in after this first wonder, that comes as preferable. If not, we might want to put out a settler or two from 002... we'll need to evaluate this as we go along, I can't tell yet.

The priorities for 001 and 003 should really come as settlers, so we can get to 10 cities for the FP (and for commerce). That said, I wouldn't waste production (at least no more than usual) when going for settlers. Our workers will have a lot of mining around 002 to do also. The turn we learn Philosophy and/or complete the Museum of Mausollos we want 002 as developed as we can get it (4 fully mined hills and one more mined regular grassland... unless we manage a Monarchy/Republic slingshot), so we can put in the little library, and then the big library ASAP... but we'll have to see on this also.