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Cala Crazy Moagata Project

Discussion in 'Rise from Erebus Modmod' started by Calavente, Oct 19, 2015.

  1. Viatos

    Viatos Chieftain

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    Hey, just wanted to say you're doing some really great work. :) I think a white Chearsul sounds pretty awesome.
     
  2. black_imperator

    black_imperator Chieftain

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    Do you have a picture of the lioness ingame ? the model by itself looks a bit blander than the rest of your reskins, but that may work perfectly ingame ^^

    I really like your plans for the commanders ^^
     
  3. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    sorry :( haven't tryed it ingame yet.
    but that's the main issue of lions... they are bland ... unless they have big manes :D
    but otherwise, it's just a sandy pelt ; no strips, no dots, nothing... :cry:
     
  4. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    do you know what I found ???
    this :
    and it has effing KAJIIT units !!!

    CAT-TRIBE-UNITS !

    with a feline-head... and a Feline-tail !


    or in close-up view

    even GP !!!
    (and horseman / chariot / horse-archer on a big tiger !!)

    or using kuriotates' musteval with cat-head .. ie with reveresed joints!

    and again some units !

    What did I work for up till now ???

    (well, the good new is that I think my work might still be useful for some reskin... or not :( ; I might have to re-do the skins as the skin-maps are often different)

    and the units are mostly with weapons so they will still need some good claws... so my reskinned claws will be useful !

    and they all have armors and clothes ... not really Maogata-like... so maybe I'll need to work again on it.

    in fact, I can now take any pleasing unit of FFH, reskin its "skin-part", leave the armor/clothes... and add the head/tail of the Tamriel mod and claws from werewolf... to make nice maogata....

    that will be a spectacular improvement for the werewolf-based units I had currently done.

    that is very satisfactory... and sad at the same time.

    thus, I'm lost.... I don't know what to do anymore on that subject :( :( :( :( :(

    and even nice new werewolves... based on stretched wolves that are but on 2 legs :
     
  5. black_imperator

    black_imperator Chieftain

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    Well, step 1, take a look to see if their models are better or not than yours ( animation included

    step 2, if they/some are, ask the people who made them if you can use and modify them

    step 3 see if you can adapt what you've already done to the new models easily

    step 4 do what you can't do easily the hard way

    step 5 profit ^^


    More seriousy, don't get discouraged because of this, no work is ever useless, at the very least, it provided you good training which will let you do even better things further down the line.
    The main reason the maogata weren't really fully added in Rife in the first place were due to the lack of art. With what you've done so far, i'm already willing to merge them back into AoE (at least as a module). I would love for you to get to the end of it.
     
  6. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    thanks.

    I know.

    It's just that i was thinking of bringing "progress"... when in fact, almost all the work has already been done :)

    but as I wrote, the khajiit are not exactly the maogata... so I could still re-do a new "maogata" civ.

    however, using the khajiit as a base (or only other normal units with the cat head-tail) I would have to re-think all the units (instead of starting from the lizardmen... which have a really different body-structure and especially different skin-files :D

    and the task of re-thinking the whole thing has me a bit down. (just at the moment where I was thinking of starting again on this work).

    (oh, and I edited the above post to show some links to units images)
     
  7. black_imperator

    black_imperator Chieftain

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    Ok let's take this step by step (so many steps today ^^)

    Is it possible for you to add the cat Head and Tail to any unit model ?
    if yes, we can choose any good unit with valid animations for the maogata
    (possibly the lizards and werewolves with head and tail cut off and replaced)

    if not, we're limited to the existing models, and we have to see if that's enough for us or not.


    other possibility, you continue with what you started and we forget about the khajits
     
  8. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    thanks for the support :D

    However I can't forget about the khajiit... it's so close to what I aimed to do ! (at least the maneer they did it)
    Spoiler Rant :

    I didn't test it, but it seems pretty simple to transfer the cathead (in 2 parts) and the cat tail to any model.

    My first work will be to update the werewolves based units... and give them a cat tail, and change their ugly canine head into a tiger/jaguar head.
    that should be somewhat simple even if i'll still need to do some change in skins to adapt the head/tail skin to the tone/colour of the werwolves based units.

    after that, all is open.

    I'll have to look at the musteval in more detail, at the satyr and it's upgrade, at the gnoll,
    see if I can reskin those ? or if it would be simpler to keep the same clothes and only change the fur parts.

    see if I can use the mali-skirmisher as a base to see if I can have really throwable javelins...

    at the svart-horsearcher to see it it's better than what is already proposed ..

    ... and then at all other units and imagine what they'll be like with a cat-head, and imagine if some part of clothes can be reskinned as fur and how they'll behave in unarmed combat.

    and to see if some of the "items" (pauldron / mane / braclet / belt / weapons / capes) can enhance the units

    and after the list has been fixed, do the reskin for all that, and move the cat-head/tail and items...

    but I don't have the energy to tackle all that.

    so... small day/week of "modding-depression" to come :D

    after that.. we'll see.

    (EDIT: and I may be able to use the lizard as a base... I would "only" need a way to make their tail disappear before adding the cat-tail.
    but I fear that it will make a big "hole" in the butt of the lizard unit ..
    EDIT2: I tried, but I can't seem to make the original tail transparent)
    EDIT3: I did make the tail transparent... but as I feared it gives them a big hole in the small of the back. (it might be hidden with armor/clothes or a cape)
     
  9. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    so,

    I decided not to despair too much.
    and Ramsay1945 allowed me to use his stuff to play a bit.

    so I did something fastiduous, but useful.
    I gathered, in one place, all the 3D elements that may become useful for me in 1 dummy unit.
    here it is:
    Spoiler :

    from left to right:
    -red-glow (for example to add to voice of mana hands, or to Chearsul hands, once changed into mana-blue or icy-blue)
    -from top to bottom: small ears (movable independantly), bigger ears (useful to make caracal-based units or enhanced ear sizes). Hairs... (the beginning of a collection of hairs for making lion mane), pauldrons (from Brigitt)... on the right wrist of unit: a small bracelet (for decoration purpose)

    -the unit,
    top part : from left to right : on the back yellow glow and blue glow : for magical effect and/or for a mane / wolf-head / collection of horns for decoration on units / 2 capes (one with included shoulderpads) / a hood
    lower part : leg-armor / front-back-lap-armor / buclar
    -two left-shoulder pauldron (can be translated to right)
    -pauldrons pair
    -pauldron pair matched with armor (independant)

    on the right unit : as seen from backside
    -yellow glow
    -blue glow
    below the blue glow: a brownish mass: Uruk-hai hairs... for the lion mane !
    -some bit of cat-tail
    -the two capes: please notice that the one with pauldron lifts just at the right part for the tail !
    -the rest has been explained.
    -down below you can see a half-hood/cape, that drapes on the left side, leaving the right arm bare... nice to use.
    so now, my next step is the following:
    identify the already existing Kajiit that can be useful with much change (mainly a small change in color: deeper color)
    Spoiler :
    here is what I already have: --> HALF-DONE http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12160516&postcount=214
    settler / mounted horse-archer on big bad tiger
    Spoiler :
    GP : Keep (save the general: I'll use my grey tiger-man) / I'm wondering for the GM : too much clothes ... If I understand how, I may use the settler, but with richer skirt)
    worker, warrior, archer
    Spoiler :
    maybe the scout, once reskinned (same as the warrior, but with a bag) ?

    and I'm hesitating for those:
    swordman (see above) and Cathay (maybe for hunter & ranger, the cathay being of broader thorax (without the sword and shield)
    Spoiler :
    the daji scout as a sole unit with reversed joints (
    Spoiler :
    maybe as a warrior, once the axe is removed)
    horseman (would the Maogata use horses ???)
    the next step would be : identify other units "basic model" that might be transformed into Maogata.
    here is a tentative list: --> DONE
    Spoiler :
    -Moroi: easy to skin, it is essentially the same as the warrior.
    it is a warrior with a more dignified skirt: much better for higher-leveled units. / almost a plug and play.
    -svart champion: nice female figure (with armor) : might be interesting for reskining either of axe or champion units : to make the "lionness" figures of the unit ; and with the armor already drawn, there is only to recolor it as needed and replace the rest with fur. Only issue is the ponytail... but I might be able to manage that.
    - marsman/archer/scout : allow for assymetric body-paint ... have a melee animation that "claws"
    -doviello axeman (Lucian): has a big fur for the lion mane / the swordman attack animation renders well with claws / the skirt is different from warrior
    - spearwielder "Chislev Champion" : skirt is again different / animation might be ok with claws / can come with an armor if needed
    -illian adept : female with cape and staff: might make a nice "whisper of mana" once reskined in jaguar pattern and with a cat-head/tail
    -grigori axeman : nice battle skirt / assymetric vanguards
    - doviello assassin : another nice female unit for a lioness (and the animations go well with claws).. but for which one ? (or to add female units in the other groups: scout ?
    - austrin champion: different skirt/shorts/pants... with small pauldron included / dual-swords goes well with claws animations / there is already a body-fitting armor / skin allows assymetrice body... for whom ?
    - austrin swordman/highlander : same as the champion, but without integrated pauldron
    - mali skirmisher : some fancy arm-bands, might allow to really launch those pikes...might make a nice long-bow UU
    then think about the mounted units ; I think I can give cat-head/tail + body-reskin to any unit...
    Spoiler :
    -hornguard / boar-rider /bear-rider : one of the more difficult units : it might be hard to hide the original head.
    -bison-rider: easy to add cat-head. However, the unit has a big fur : so it should be either a lion or another unit, with a fur protection… Maybe I’ll be able to replace the model with a more basic model without such big fur.
    -wolf rider : seems ok, if based on the ork-wolf-rider
    so… which to try, which to chose ?

    Next step is defining the new unit lines:
    - opening assassins / shadow slots ? maybe with black-panther skin / or Ocelot / Caracal : 1 less str, but is hidden ?
    - changing the mounted line :
    - opening a X-bow unit ? (maybe based on the Kajiit longbow or kajiit archer, and have the archer/LB units be javeliner/pike-thrower ) ?
    - Changing the mounted line : have Pahmar / Sench (from Kajiit) (or sabretooth) be the chariot replacement (big ocelated grey cheetah / big grey tiger). Open a horseman / horsearcher / Knight line ? (using : wolf-rider ? / reskinned svart HA / Senche-rider (from kajiit): much bigger tiger than the svart unit)

    Next-to-Last step is defining each unit ; mixing models, reskins and adding the 3D items
    -do I keep the same model (animation?) for one line, upgrading only the 3D gear ?
    - do I keep the same model (animation), for each tier, units/lines varying by skin and gear ?

    Last step : doing all those units… :/

    Any ideas from you guys (especially black-imperator, which seems the last guy alive commenting on this thread :D )
     
  10. black_imperator

    black_imperator Chieftain

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    well, you got your plan figured out, so that's good.

    for cavalry, the idea of cats riding bigger cats seem silly to me ^^, so i'd go with a full line or 4-legged big felines, cutting the horse-archery line (i would have to check but i believe it's close to the original plans for them) You can have too sublines, one which would be more hit and run ( speedy but weaker and smaller, cheetah or ocelot) and the other, a powerhouse (big sabertooth/tiger)

    i agree with the black panther assassin too
     
  11. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    so.... since last time I was sad to abandon the work I had already done.

    further all those units I listed above have 2 issues : "short" torso... and skirt/loincloth

    and those reskinned lizards have a nice look... somehow.

    so I'm doing things differently:

    first work is to upgrade all my previous work to cat-headed units... (and build the melee line based on lions) and release that as a beta 1.
    then, later, if I have the energy, make other units based on normal units +head + tail.

    image first :

    then comments:
    if you notice, it's intersting as you can have the whole "long-belly" effect of animals going bipedal. and there's no loincloth (do lions need some ??)
    the cat-head goes well with the unit.
    I can re-use my previous work
    the only issue is that the tail is a more lizardly than felin (pointy and thick instead of fluffy and cylindrical) ... but that's a minor issue.

    So now, i'm gonna work on this... and come back here when I've finished at least the ranged, recon and arcane lines (with t4 units).
     
  12. black_imperator

    black_imperator Chieftain

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    the heads do work well with the lizard bodies, nice work.
     
  13. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    And since then I did the easy tigers units (I'm still in the black regarding the gear of the Chaser (Hunter unit) vs the scout...
    and I started on the lions (melee).
    here is the basis for the champion (I'll remove the weapons and change gear), and latter the fury (berserker):
    a lion:

    I just have to hope that it'll render as good in-game...
     
  14. black_imperator

    black_imperator Chieftain

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    for scout, i'd say a light gear piece ( the chest piece you had on the panther for example) with a backpack,
    for hunter, cape and better chest piece
     
  15. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    at the moment I had the following
    scout : nakeed ^^ no paws or very small paws
    hunter : ?? + medium paws (maybe the backpack ?)
    Ranger : cape + big paws (+ jewelry).
    here is an image of the current ranger : (and the changer Stalker : Beastmaster UU)
    for the ranger, I'll have to test how it behaves during combat... same as the lion above..
    however, what do you think about the gear ?
     
  16. black_imperator

    black_imperator Chieftain

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    the chest piece in addition of the cape would be good, that way you can remove one of them for the hunter and both for the scout if you want. The beastmaster looks great
     
  17. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    I did some game-testing yesterday.

    you know what ? some 3D models in Nif do not translate well to the GAME...

    the prowler (ranger) makes the game crash... I think it is due to the cape (the kithra kiriel cape normaly has a "bone" linked to part of the horse... I removed that link to allow for copying the cape, but that could be the reason.)

    the lion... those maddening elements of the mane were originally transparent. I battled a long time with unknown parameters to have it as in the image above....
    however that doesn't translate into the game... all the one above snout-level are transparent... always.
    It makes for a bald lion.

    plus the lion skin seems to have "seams"... around each part of the skin, which weren't appearant in nifviewer... but that should be solved easily.

    I'll have to tweak things in the black (I mean : tweaking without knowing why or how it really works).
     
  18. black_imperator

    black_imperator Chieftain

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    I can only encourage you to find somebody in the graphics subforums to ask those questions to. It should be quicker than trial and error.
     

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