Can Miracles Happen

[naterator]

Placebo effect?

Kind of like how if you really believe in sugar it too can heal you.

 

[civ_king]

Umm... this is God we're talking about. The Almighty. I'm sure if a miracle is being performed by the Lord, He could probably get it right such that the miracle would not kill.



Mark 11:24
"Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours."

Jesus said that if we pray, He will answer our prayers (the above being only one verse of many). Yet when we pray to cure all cancer worldwide, or when we pray for just an amputee to regrow a limb, nothing happens.

"God's will" is a rationalization for the discrepancy observed. If it is so, then why do people even pray at all? God has a plan, and He will see it through.

It is also worth noting that if Jesus is God, and God is perfect, then all of Jesus's verses in the bible would be true - including what He says about prayer. Why do certain things we ask for in prayer not come true, especially good things like curing cancer worldwide?

I point you to this subsection of the website I linked to earlier: Understanding Prayer

So God is not omnipotent?

If the violation of physics had worse effects than the good gained by healing amputees?

 

[PeteAtoms]

So it's ok to violate all our knowledge of medicine, anatomy and biology but not our knowledge of of physics? I see a problem with your explanation... a lot of "if's" my friend.

 

[Quackers]

Medical science is so incomplete unexplainable things like this can happen.

 

[Bill3000]

Freaking magnets. How do they work!?

 

[PeteAtoms]

Medical science is so incomplete unexplainable things like this can happen.

Incomplete? Compared to physics?

Also, I said "violate all our knowledge of medicine," I didn't say "the immutable laws of medicine." So I did take the remaining unknowns into account (are there 'laws' of medicine? I dunno, I should say 'truths' I guess).

And what I'm saying is:

1) Placebo!
2) Doctors can be wrong.
3) Impossible things don't happen

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

Extend it to a blinded randomized controlled trial and maybe you'll have my attention.

 

[say1988]

If the violation of physics had worse effects than the good gained by healing amputees?

Did He not create the laws of physics? Should He not be able to use his powers and knowledge to prevent this problem.

2) Doctors can be wrong.

Likely to be emphasized by a reverse of the placebo effect (doctor tells you it is much worse than it actually is, so your mind believes him and makes it seem that much worse)

 

[The Imp]

Of course Miracles happen, look at the definition of the word.

World English Dictionary

an event that is contrary to the established laws of nature and attributed to a supernatural cause

Miracles go hand in hand with God of the Gaps thinking.

---

But you probably meant Miracle as in

Bible Dictionary(found on dictionary.com) an event in the external world brought about by the immediate agency or the simple volition of God

In which case I am highly doubtful that such an even can occur, because I do not believe that a deity or supernatural being exists(for all you cocksures who were going to say "Gee whiz, Deists believe the same thing, how did I know you were not one")

 

[Defiant47]

If the violation of physics had worse effects than the good gained by healing amputees?

There are plenty of creatures out there that regenerate limbs or parts of themselves. I'm pretty sure that God could give us all massive regeneration abilities to regrow limbs, albeit slowly, such that all amputees could be healed within a matter of months. No fundamental violations would occur.

 

[NBAfan]

Umm... this is God we're talking about. The Almighty. I'm sure if a miracle is being performed by the Lord, He could probably get it right such that the miracle would not kill.



Mark 11:24
"Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours."

Jesus said that if we pray, He will answer our prayers (the above being only one verse of many). Yet when we pray to cure all cancer worldwide, or when we pray for just an amputee to regrow a limb, nothing happens.

"God's will" is a rationalization for the discrepancy observed. If it is so, then why do people even pray at all? God has a plan, and He will see it through.

It is also worth noting that if Jesus is God, and God is perfect, then all of Jesus's verses in the bible would be true - including what He says about prayer. Why do certain things we ask for in prayer not come true, especially good things like curing cancer worldwide?

I point you to this subsection of the website I linked to earlier: Understanding Prayer

First, you are making a wrong assumption about the nature of God. God is not some sort of wish machine that will give you every thing material that you want.
Second, you can't take everything in the the Bible literaly word for word. The previous verse has Jesus talking about moving a mountain which is usually symbolic in the bible. And parying that way will never get what you want because it is out of selfishness.

 

[GoodGame]

Highly improbable events can occur with high improbability.

 

[Defiant47]

First, you are making a wrong assumption about the nature of God. God is not some sort of wish machine that will give you every thing material that you want.

I do not make this assumption. I am making the assumption that Jesus is God, God is perfect, and therefore anything God or Jesus says in the Bible is true.

Jesus states on numerous occasions that He will answer prayers. If he does not answer prayers, then why does any Christian ever pray (other than to have a relationship with God - I mean pray and ask for things)?

Second, you can't take everything in the the Bible literaly word for word. The previous verse has Jesus talking about moving a mountain which is usually symbolic in the bible.

Indeed it is, but the implications are still there. Not to mention the more explicit verses of the Bible. Mark 11:24 shows us that if we have true conviction and belief in Jesus's divinity and power to grant prayers, then they will be granted to us. This is explicitly stated. And while I may not have faith in Jesus Christ, I'm sure many Christians do, and I'm sure that many have tried to cure cancer worldwide.

Should I start a chain e-mail asking Christians to unite and pray for the immediate end or cure to cancer worldwide? Does it matter how many people ask for this? Or is it pointless to even ask God for anything in prayer, because He already has a plan?

And parying that way will never get what you want because it is out of selfishness.

Observe that all the prayers I have described are selfless in the utmost. This isn't a Christian wishing that he or she would win the lottery. This is a Christian (or group thereof) praying sincerely to Jesus Christ to cure all cancer worldwide in order to help millions and millions of people and to glorify God. And they know that Jesus will answer this prayer because the Bible says He will.

(of course when they are disappointed with the result, they usually come up with some rationalization - maybe they didn't pray hard enough, God has a plan, or things will unfold in such a way that the prayer will be answered somehow: such as the slow medical advancement that may actually cure cancer 500 years from now)

 

[NBAfan]

I do not make this assumption. I am making the assumption that Jesus is God, God is perfect, and therefore anything God or Jesus says in the Bible is true.

Jesus states on numerous occasions that He will answer prayers. If he does not answer prayers, then why does any Christian ever pray (other than to have a relationship with God - I mean pray and ask for things)?



Indeed it is, but the implications are still there. Not to mention the more explicit verses of the Bible. Mark 11:24 shows us that if we have true conviction and belief in Jesus's divinity and power to grant prayers, then they will be granted to us. This is explicitly stated. And while I may not have faith in Jesus Christ, I'm sure many Christians do, and I'm sure that many have tried to cure cancer worldwide.

Should I start a chain e-mail asking Christians to unite and pray for the immediate end or cure to cancer worldwide? Does it matter how many people ask for this? Or is it pointless to even ask God for anything in prayer, because He already has a plan?



Observe that all the prayers I have described are selfless in the utmost. This isn't a Christian wishing that he or she would win the lottery. This is a Christian (or group thereof) praying sincerely to Jesus Christ to cure all cancer worldwide in order to help millions and millions of people and to glorify God. And they know that Jesus will answer this prayer because the Bible says He will.

(of course when they are disappointed with the result, they usually come up with some rationalization - maybe they didn't pray hard enough, God has a plan, or things will unfold in such a way that the prayer will be answered somehow: such as the slow medical advancement that may actually cure cancer 500 years from now)

You have to take the whole context of the verse and read before Mark 11:24 to see that He is speaking symbolically. Pettion is not the only kind of Prayer.

If curing all cancer will help people get to believe God, it will happen.

 

[Cu Chulainn]

In the entire history of the world there has never been a single claim of miraculous happenings that could be backed up by the slightest shred of empirical evidence.

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

Oh come on, hearsay and anecdotes are valid proofs.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Divine miracles? No.
Freakish bouts of luck and healing? Rare but happens.

What if "Freakish bouts of luck' = miracle?

Remember, if you lock an infinite number of monkeys in a room with an infinite number of typerwriters, they will eventualy write the works of Shakespear.

Doubtful.

 

[say1988]

What if "Freakish bouts of luck' = miracle?

I think he means that a miracle can be defined as something that is just exceedingly unlikely rather than impossible, making miracles very possible.
Technically spaking, if you believe miracles are possible then nothing is impossible. Hence a miracle would be defined as something otherwise impossible.

 

[Bill3000]

Doubtful.

No, it's almost certainly true; although you just need one monkey, not an infinite amount.

 

[f35acepilot]

No, it's almost certainly true; although you just need one monkey, not an infinite amount.

Well, if you have one monkey you have to give it an infinite amount of time, but if you have infinite monkeys it will be done instantly, right?