Can't deal with F@&*! cheating AI

[insaneweasel]

Okay, so I just moved up to monarch.
I can beat prince 90% of the time, and easily, but I have trouble finishing up when I get to the industrial era. Too many other players are in better positions.

Anyway, here is a save from 1907.

History of the game:

I start off in a semi-cruddy spot, but manage to box off both the Incans and the Babylonians, who become retrograde. Egypt wonderwhores, and has a ton of land.

There is a lot of religious strife here, whilst on the other continent there is a huge confucian hug-fest.

Catherine has a lot of great land, and beats me to liberalism by 4 turns.
Fredrick has essentially no land or resources, yet still manages to stay ahead of everyone cuz he's a cheating twit.

In the next 100 turns of my play

-Catherine vassalizes Mehmet (the two traitors really hate each other now).
-Attacks me. Uses her massive navy to hassle me, but doesn't land too many units.
-Attacks me AGAIN. This time she blasts a ton of my units away with nukes, and takes a few of the ex-Babylonian cities.
-She also manages to go for BOTH cultural and space. Three of her cities are creeping up on legendary.
-Ramses launches the ship after my spies fail to destroy his parts.


So help please. What am I doing wrong?

I might have an earlier save if you need it.

Thanks in a advance.

 

[vicawoo]

where's the cheating part? If anything, players cheat much more than the AI since they can perform certain actions which the AI can't (axe rush, warrior/archer rushes, blocking, etc).

 

[obsolete]

After looking at your save... the AI certainly doesn't need to cheat.

Your capital... had such great potential yet you messed it all up by planing down cottages.. even on hills? You are not even working improved tiles in your capital, yet trying to build tanks... Hmm!

What's even worse, you are trying to build tanks and you haven't even built a barracks yet!!!!

Furthermore, you are missing other BC era buildings in your capital (and other cities) that make me question if this is your first time playing. Things are much worse... you built the Pyramids, yet you messed up all that potential by spamming cottages all over... WHY!??

You have military units you are building in other cities, and yet again you didn't even build any barracks yet, and you are in the end phases of the game. What on earth is going on here.

I couldn't bare to look further than a few seconds, that was just too much... my eyes hurt.

 

[deckoff9]

where's the cheating part? If anything, players cheat much more than the AI since they can perform certain actions which the AI can't (axe rush, warrior/archer rushes, blocking, etc).

haha, man imagine if the ai actually did some of the things that humans did to win. i think if the ai actually did something like nuke/paratrooper right before a human got space victory the collective heads of the people on this board would explode.

 

[insaneweasel]

Your capital... had such great potential yet you messed it all up by planing down cottages.. even on hills? You are not even working improved tiles in your capital, yet trying to build tanks... Hmm!

Could you please tell me what I should have done?
I built the cottages early on, when I wanted the commerce. At that time, I was sort of bored anyway, so I thought why not get another tank?

Furthermore, you are missing other BC era buildings in your capital (and other cities) that make me question if this is your first time playing. Things are much worse... you built the Pyramids, yet you messed up all that potential by spamming cottages all over... WHY!??

I was trying to go for a mixed economy. Didn't do it well though. It obviously isn't my first time playing, but this type of stuff does work on prince. There are nicer ways of saying that it doesn't work on monarch.

You have military units you are building in other cities, and yet again you didn't even build any barracks yet, and you are in the end phases of the game. What on earth is going on here.

I hadn't played for awhile, and then came back, played a prince game, beat it easily, and went up a level.

I appreciate criticism, but I would like to know exactly how I can improve.

 

[vicawoo]

Could you please tell me what I should have done?
I built the cottages early on, when I wanted the commerce. At that time, I was sort of bored anyway, so I thought why not get another tank?


I was trying to go for a mixed economy. Didn't do it well though. It obviously isn't my first time playing, but this type of stuff does work on prince. There are nicer ways of saying that it doesn't work on monarch.



I hadn't played for awhile, and then came back, played a prince game, beat it easily, and went up a level.

I appreciate criticism, but I would like to know exactly how I can improve.

obsolete doesn't do constructive criticism. He just likes to tell people/the AI why they're bad/he's good, so you're barking up the wrong bush. No point being defensive about it.

 

[iggymnrr]

Actually, obsolete's signature quote is reliable. DaveMcW is well respected. I looked at your save and went straight to the stats page. More cities than workers is not good. Things went wrong early in your game. Around a worker and a half per city is about right. Tech what you need to get your special tiles developed and have enough workers to keep developing.

 

[insaneweasel]

where's the cheating part? If anything, players cheat much more than the AI since they can perform certain actions which the AI can't (axe rush, warrior/archer rushes, blocking, etc).

Ramses did a huge REX without COL and didn't ruin his economy.
Fredrick has cruddy land and few resources yet is the tech leader.

Catherine managed to have a two-front war with me and Mehmet.

I don't understand how they can do that.

 

[lymond]

Man, wait til you hit immortal or deity (which is much much harder than immortal by the way), you will really see the AI bonus skyrocket. Still the game is very winnable - at least at immortal. AIs need those bonuses - or cheating if you will - otherwise the game would be too easy. Monarch level is actually pretty easy once you start doing things right. It's not the AI that is the problem, it is the human not adjusting to the level and improving his game. In other words, you are not asking the right questions.

 

[Gwynnja]

Man, wait til you hit immortal or deity (which is much much harder than immortal by the way), you will really see the AI bonus skyrocket. Still the game is very winnable - at least at immortal. AIs need those bonuses - or cheating if you will - otherwise the game would be too easy. Monarch level is actually pretty easy once you start doing things right. It's not the AI that is the problem, it is the human not adjusting to the level and improving his game. In other words, you are not asking the right questions.

Conversely, if you "can't deal with F@&*! cheating AI," dial down the difficulty level.

 

[insaneweasel]

Conversely, if you "can't deal with F@&*! cheating AI," dial down the difficulty level.

Funny you should say that.

I was winning on prince consistently, and I thought it was time to move up a notch.

 

[Gwynnja]

Funny you should say that.

I was winning on prince consistently, and I thought it was time to move up a notch.

And then when it turned out that next difficulty level was more difficult you thought it was time to start a thread whining about the AI cheating? Here's a newsflash for ya, champ: monarch is harder than prince because the AI get more bonuses.

 

[Yoshi1]

So here is a newsflash: Difficulty level in Civ4 = amount of AI bonuses/modifiers.
You either have what it takes or not, and if i read that you build modern units and don't have barracks it just makes me think: ok, this guy doesn't have it (yet).
I can understand Obseletes rant lol, coz it is exactly what you need...coming here with a stupid thread title like this, you deserver a kick in the butt as advice.

 

[Sian]

i deny to examine your save untill you start doing a wise thing and upload a save from before your fan have been dirty for several hundred turns ... ie, upload a save from ~1ad (give or take a few each way)

 

[Ghpstage]

Got a 4000BC save so people can shadow and explain decisions?

 

[Gumbolt]

Overall you were too slow to expand. A second city by 1900bc or so is far too slow!! Your third city was just as slow.

You had stone so that makes an easy mids build.

Liberalism went 1450ad!! Theres no reason why you could of not got a free tech from that.

Overall the start defined your game. On monarch most good players don't need to cheat as they abuse the science and use rifles vs outdated AI units.

Theres no reason why you can't have 7-8 cities before 1ad

 

[Saxif]

I have recently moved from Prince to Monarch myself and it took me ages to start getting things right. I'd say I win maybe 60-70% of my Monarch games now. I haven't up loaded the save you attached but some of the advice already offered in an offensive way is good advice.

1). 1 - 1.5 workers a city is sweet

2). Specializing cities is key, rename them if you have problems i.e GPF 1, Cottage 1, Hammer 1, Military 1, Wonder 1 or something similar, then when you come to build something in that city you can ask yourself if it needs to be there or are you better of building wealth/units?

3). Upgraded tiles are key, a city working non upgraded tiles is jusr costing you money and slowing down your tech rate.

4). You should aim to be getting Liberalism before 1250AD (without rushing for it like mad and skipping lots of techs). You can and should try and get it earlier of course but aim for that, the latest I have seen an AI go for it was about 1520 (I was war mongering and my tech pace was slow), still I beat the AI by 2 turns and in the end killed or vassalized everyone that game.

5). I am starting to enjoy a 25% hammer city (wonders, units, build wealth), 25% cottage city, 25% GPF and 25% random (I.e. blockade cities, cities to grab resources primarily, or even sometimes a city on a hill with a wall for an a.i like Shaka to bounce off) and then the Capital.

6). When going to war it is often better to turn newly captured cities into manufacturing centres rather than cottage centres and have them build wealth to keep your economy going; this is even more the case the later in the game you capture them and if you aren't financial or if they don't have developed cottages.

7). Manage diplomacy and pick your religion well.

8). Don't wonderspam to much, I only build wonders if I have a resource or am Industrious, otherwise they generally are not worth it. Think of it this way "Am I best off building that wonder for 30 turns or building 6 axemen and kicking someones ass/building wealth for 30 turns and running at 10% higher research/or simply putting down further infrastructure?"

9). I don't tend to put any cottages down after 1000AD but I am starting to feel even that is to late game for them to mature and benefit me, assumimg I am thinking Space Race or drawn out victory. If I am intending to be very warlike then I obviously move that time backwards, a hammer city can build wealth/research that is far better in the short medium term (prolly like 100turns) and can there for win you a quick victory if necessary. Also (although I haven't done it), you could rely on post Emancipation to quickly grow new coattages, maybe only viable for financial leaders.

There are sine ideas I tend to use but I am only a Monarch player, as opposed to Immortal/Diety.

Good luck,

Sax.

 

[thbrown81]

After looking at your save... the AI certainly doesn't need to cheat.

Your capital... had such great potential yet you messed it all up by planing down cottages.. even on hills? You are not even working improved tiles in your capital, yet trying to build tanks... Hmm!

What's even worse, you are trying to build tanks and you haven't even built a barracks yet!!!!

Furthermore, you are missing other BC era buildings in your capital (and other cities) that make me question if this is your first time playing. Things are much worse... you built the Pyramids, yet you messed up all that potential by spamming cottages all over... WHY!??

You have military units you are building in other cities, and yet again you didn't even build any barracks yet, and you are in the end phases of the game. What on earth is going on here.

I couldn't bare to look further than a few seconds, that was just too much... my eyes hurt.

If you'd looked longer, you might have noticed that those were windmills on the hills and not cottages. Don't let the gold bag fool you! Actually, for an FIN leader, I see fewer cottages than I would expect (which is good), although you definitely don't want to put them on plains tiles. You were also set up nicely to place some watermills, but haven't done so.

However, your difficulty in this case appears to be more strategic in nature.

1) If you have no navy, the AI will pillage all your seafood tiles and harass you. If you don't want to build a navy, play a great plains or tropical forest map. Otherwise, make sure you have some ships handy. I've learned this the hard way by suddenly having my capital starve when all my fish were suddenly pillaged.

2) Ramesses probably paid for his rexing by raking in gold from his three shrines. Gold that could have been yours if you had taken him out earlier. The RNG gave him lots of room to expand, while screwing HC and Hammurabi by boxing them in. However, it set up a great opportunity for you. Ramesses spams wonders and doesn't build many units. He's BEGGING you to beeline cannons and rifles and come take all of the tasty treats that he built for you. But instead you attacked Babylon? Again, the map started rendered Babylon and the Incas irrelevant. Throw them a few techs to keep them happy, and focus on Egypt, who was more of a threat and also had much more developed land. While you expanded slowly at first, you peacefully grew 12 cities, which would have been plenty to build enough military to steamroll Egypt. Others can give much better advice on the mechanics of accomplishing it, but conquering Egypt should have been your #1 priority once you finished expanding.

3) The bonus differences between Prince and Monarch are negligible. Basically, the AI starts with an archer, gets a few 5% bumps in production and research, but that's about it. Complaining that it suddenly started cheating probably turned some people off from giving more constructive advice. I would recommend that you humbly post a initial turn save from your next Monarch game and allow people to walk you through a game. The forum can be extremely supportive when you ask nicely.

 

[obsolete]

Don't let the gold bag fool you!

I was not sure... hence I put in the question-mark.

Anyhow, I suppose things could have been worse. He could have been an AGGRESSIVE leader, and then STILL refused to build a barracks

 

[kossin]

oops, wrong thread