Capturing enemy cities early on Deity level?

Gzx

Chieftain
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Messages
4
Greetings,

I'm playing now on Deity level, and have reached a strategical bottleneck, that i can't figure out, so maybe you can help me.

In deity level, i focus on military at first, whatever the victory is, that i'm after.

So far the strategy, that has proven itself working for me is:

1. Research archery
2. Research up to the point of Bronze Working.
3. Animal husbandry (-> Horseback riding if i have horses nearby)
4. Sailing
5. whatever i is needed.

On production wise, i first build a warrior or two, (depending on the archery discovery), then create archers, then pikemen, then horsemen and/or buy boat or two.

The point is that i create unit consisting of 2 melee (warriors work, pikemen work better) units and one archery unit... These are the minimum configuration, that is able to protect my civ from most of attacks at that time. Pikemen - good against mounted units and can handle any other unit, specially with arched backup.

I am also able to advance the front up to the point of enemy cities.

Usually i advance, when i have 3-4 pikemen and 2 archers (then i start building another settler). That configuration can advance very successfully early game. Specially, when receiving backup units or escorted by horsemen and/or trireme. Very good for defense, and enough for offence.

MAYBE if i get lucky, i have managed to capture one city and advance under another city, but then it gets tricky. By that time enemy newly found enemy city has strengthened up to 20pts and more, and it is nearly impossible to capture it. Even if i focus on Iron and mathematics to build catapults, it still doesn't seem to work for me + in some unlucky situations that enemy has overteched its military that makes it even harder up to point where i withdraw.

I am able to hold the front near city, defeat most of, if not any incoming units for several turns, but arches (and those one-two catapults) damage the city like 1-3 pts, triremes 1 pt and by next turn it heals itself completely. I usually have like 3-4 archers and about same ammount on melee units. Little more damage when i use melee units, but it just wears them enough that they are useful only for 2 turns before they are killed. So it makes it useless and roughly after that point i discover myself with outdated military tech and so forth so withdrawal is imminent. Also cannot completely surround the city, cause usually it has another city closeby, which means being under fire and wearing down units double the speed.

Is there any good strategy to start capturing cities early on on diety level or it is wiser to rather play defensive, harass opponent or avoid conflict in first place and spawn cities? Which puts me in a bit bad situation, because production of settlers take long time and military usually gets outnumbered by then.

At the moment i play on continental small map. For fun have maxed out the number of civ's and CS on the small map, which is pretty fun, cause you can start war early enough and opponents are close enough, when AI hasn't had chance to out-tech you. It is extreme, but i get to same problem under normal map size/#of other civ's. But because distances are bigger to travel, then cities tend to have already 20+ strength. Still can top the military though at that time.

-edit- By pikemen i mean spearmen! My bad (not native speaker and both are good units with long sharp sticks)
 
The main difference between Deity and Immortal play is you must eliminate mucking about. Instead of getting all the ancient war techs, go straight for Iron Working, then archery, then go writing/philo (lux in there somewhere after IW).

It is hugely important to get this attack going early, 20 turns too late and you have missed the window for effective rushing, the AI will have too many defenders.


You must immediately send 6 swords and 2 archers to the closest enemy borders and stop. Ideally, the AI will DOW, and you can trim off units with your city/army.

Once I take one city, I have the advantage, usually, as they will trail troops one by one into death. put 2 melee at a time in front of the city, to prevent instant recapture

Remember the AI starts with 4 warriors, so you will have to at least take care of that and a few archers before you start taking cities.

Don't attack unless necessary with your melee units, and make sure you have the terrain advantage. One space behind a river is optimal, because invading units have to stop.

Early tricks to boost your chances would be taking Honor to get the GGeneral, choosing Hiawatha to eliminate the need for iron(or any civ with ancient/classical UU), or choosing Strategic balance resource settings (getting that guaranteed 6 iron is huge in an early rush strat)

Also, if you meet Alex on turn 3, better to just reroll.:king:
 
dont really see the need in playing totaly different to "normal" just cause its called deity ..

surly the 6 swordsman rush will usually work espacially if u really go honor tree, but in the meantime 6 other civs will build up their science and so on.

What I like do is dow em on purpose (with possibly millking gold), making ai attack and gain exp and points for general and then attack with lvled Longswords later on while having a built up civ in back.

Also hix, u talks about PIKES, which are pretty far into tech tree, in kind of same time as resaerching pikes u can research Longswords which are WAY stronger and got a useful upgrade path.

attacking with pikes is neither a real rush, nor very clever imo.
 
dont really see the need in playing totaly different to "normal" just cause its called deity ..

surly the 6 swordsman rush will usually work espacially if u really go honor tree, but in the meantime 6 other civs will build up their science and so on.

What I like do is dow em on purpose (with possibly millking gold), making ai attack and gain exp and points for general and then attack with lvled Longswords later on while having a built up civ in back.

Also hix, u talks about PIKES, which are pretty far into tech tree, in kind of same time as resaerching pikes u can research Longswords which are WAY stronger and got a useful upgrade path.

attacking with pikes is neither a real rush, nor very clever imo.

If you're lucky, you can get Civil Service with the Great Library (but probably not on deity). Also, you're going to be iron-limited a fair bit of the time. Though I agree a pike rush is not particularly worthwhile unless you're Germany.
 
Yesterday a managed to even the odds a bit, by stealing workers. Maybe it was just accident, but stealing workers and settlers seemed to cripple opponent somewhat (got this hint on some other thread) and i could save valuable production enough, that i could go on harrass/defend strategy with lots of breathing room for my civ up to point of bribing others to go on war... and all america was able to give were warriors and archers.

Sorry for a confusion, i meant spearmen before, not pikemen. My bad!

In general i use tactic to fortify melee units right in front of ranged units and ranged units do the main attack. It also effectively uses added defense bonus to melee units in case the opponent wants to advance. In case of getting ranged fire (not cities), then i use horsemen to get rid of them or focus ranged fire to them, while melee does handtohand combat until i have clear path to attack ranged ones.

I have noticed that AI focuses on the weakest unit by health, not to the unit that can do most damage in case of advance.

Also i have impression, that if you don't have iron near your first two cities, you are screwed. This is the main reason why i go for attack to get this resource.

-edit- Okay, i seriously underrated the power of sword. If i replace spearmen with swordmen in my consept, then it pretty much does the trick, i was complaining about. At least at first glance. Thanks :)
 
I usually have my best Deity conquest luck with Knight replacements like the Keshik (obviously) or the Conquistador or Mandekalu Cavalry - units that have no vs. cities penalty. Chivalry sits right on a desirable tech path and most of my early/mid game military success on Deity has been on the (horse)backs of those units.

I've always felt like early sword/steel pushes just leave me too far behind to compete in other areas on Deity.
 
How do you establish your empire until you have the knight or replacement for it? Defensive play i understand, but how you manage your offence?

I personally build maximum of one civilian unit, namely settler for 2nd city... capturing all the rest (workers and cities). Unless i get a 'private island'.
 
How do you establish your empire until you have the knight or replacement for it? Defensive play i understand, but how you manage your offence?

You should read Snarzberry's thread on the Chivalry rush. Basically you build/buy chariot archers (Mongolia) or horsemen (Songhai), or a combination thereof, while you are teching toward Chivalry, and then upgrade them to the UU. Either of these early horse unit types can be used to defend, and can also be used to hunt barbs for gold and experience while you are waiting for Chivalry.
 
For an early rush, the city strength of your opponent is going to be the best indicator of what you will need to be successful. If the strength is below 15 you have a chance with just swords or pikes (if you have enough of them), or with a Babylonian bowman rush, for example. But you will probably lose some units against a 15 strength city. Once the cities get into the 15-20 strength range it will be really tough with just swords and you will likely need longswords (or knight UU or crossbows). I have found that keshiks and Mandekalu cavs don't become "outdated" until you are fighting cities with strengths above 35-40ish, but even then its still possible with enough units (and lots of promotions).

On Deity the city strength of your opponent would usually be too high (except in a very recently settled city) by the time you have pikes for them to be useful for a rush.
 
I didn't say anything about pikes....obviously not the way to go, but I do agree that Snarz's chiv rush is awesome and can leave you in a better position to compete scientifically.

One important feature of Deity play is the need for cannon fodder. I like to chuck in a few spears to eat up ranged damage, even warriors can help with blocking cavalry, taking hits from cities, etc. I usually add these after iron cap is reached.

To prevent dropping too much in science, I find it crucial to keep building settlers after NC (with liberty boost and strong cap, not a big deal) and allowing happiness to tank for a while....land is power.

Clearly, swords are only going to get you that 1st war, afterwards, you'd better have a plan to get to a strong medieval unit.
 
You should read Snarzberry's thread on the Chivalry rush. Basically you build/buy chariot archers (Mongolia) or horsemen (Songhai), or a combination thereof, while you are teching toward Chivalry, and then upgrade them to the UU. Either of these early horse unit types can be used to defend, and can also be used to hunt barbs for gold and experience while you are waiting for Chivalry.

This, in a nutshell. I usually play Spain rather than these choices, since I just enjoy the early game hunt for NWs and the variety they provide, but yeah I just build horsemen, bulb Civil Service with GL if I can (more of an Immortal thing than Deity) and try to beeline Chivalry.

The good thing about this approach is that you stay on the generally better top of the tech tree and don't wind up going all-in for conquest. It is a rare Deity game that lets you fail with an early conquest rush and still bounce back for a peaceful win type.

Typically, I will just take over 1 or 2 neighbors and it is enough to push me over the top for a peaceful victory condition, usually science or diplo.
 
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