Caravels : Give Pillage Ability + Transport settlers & workers

[Sisiutil]

I almost always build Stonehenge too. But once I have a state religion, I don't worry about obsoleting it. Calendar resources are usually crucial happiness boosters that come available right at the time your cities have grown to a size to require them. And a missionary for your state religion can achieve the same results for a new or captured city as an obelisk, with added benefits (1 GPT with the shrine, faster production with Organized Religion, more XPs with Theocracy, etc.).

 

[Araqiel]

You can't create GP very well with a +2...
I build Stonehenge for Obelisks.
Because you need the +1 range for new cities.
Great prophets are only a plus but Stonehenge is not a very good way for great prophets due to his weak productivity.

Stonehenge does rather well at generating an early GP. Its available with just mysticism meaning you can build it without researching priesthood and you can build it before you can get a temple up to run a priest specialist. The priest also costs you two food which is a damp to your early growth curve. Stonehenge just comes earlier than any other GP source so it piles up while you're unlocking the other wonders/temples.

Now I do often run a priest to speed up that first/second prophet generation, but usually only after I hit the happiness cap in my capital.

 

[naterator]

religion is better than stonehenge for culture. if you have no state religion then you get 1 culture for every religion in your cities. spreading religion is easy and doesn't go obsolete during the classical age. stonehenge is a tool for getting that first great prophet, usually to build a shrine or found a religion. i know it's only +2, but that's a big deal that early in the game, it's still the fastest way to a great prophet. if it's obelisks you want, build them separatly, they won't dissapear or stop producing culture after calendar, you just won't be able to build any more. and delaying techs due to your wonderlust with any regularity is bad news. wonders can be a crutch that prevent you from learning the skills to cope without them. calendar itself may not, in your eyes, be worth losing all those obelisks; but it opens up other branches of the tech tree. a balanced research approach cuts down research times, as well.
and now you insist that this is imbalanced and a problem that you "want an official change by patch because it's an universal unbalancement that needs to be changed for all players". no. you're wrong. on this poll, a solid 50% disagreeing with you completely, it's not unbalanced to those players.
and your claim that "making a post always takes less time than modding."
i can't stress this enough, danicela, it takes about 5 minutes to learn how to change XML. i had no knowledge of any programming, and made a smartass remark to someone who suggested that someone "just mod it". a nice man told me exactly how to edit my xml. it took him about 1 paragraph. i am not a nice man, you can find it yourself on the creation and custonization forum, but i know you won't. read my post, danicela. i cut and pasted 1 phrase, 3 times, then saved one file in a new folder. it took literally 2 minutes. if you can cut and paste, or change zero's to one's then you can edit xml. it's barely modding, even though you can have huge impact in the game.

I want that you forget me.

you are unforgettable, unbelieveable, unsane.

 

[Danicela]

I almost always build Stonehenge too. But once I have a state religion, I don't worry about obsoleting it. Calendar resources are usually crucial happiness boosters that come available right at the time your cities have grown to a size to require them. And a missionary for your state religion can achieve the same results for a new or captured city as an obelisk, with added benefits (1 GPT with the shrine, faster production with Organized Religion, more XPs with Theocracy, etc.).

Yes, religions can replace Obelisks, I have forgotten it, but with stonehenge, you have the obelisk in the first turn, but you have to build and to carry the missionnary up to the city, this takes more turns.
You have also other ways to get happiness.

Stonehenge does rather well at generating an early GP. Its available with just mysticism meaning you can build it without researching priesthood and you can build it before you can get a temple up to run a priest specialist. The priest also costs you two food which is a damp to your early growth curve. Stonehenge just comes earlier than any other GP source so it piles up while you're unlocking the other wonders/temples.

Now I do often run a priest to speed up that first/second prophet generation, but usually only after I hit the happiness cap in my capital.

Yes it is a good way to get first GP, but it is only a +2, so you need 50 turns for the first..

religion is better than stonehenge for culture

But it takes more turns, but it's true, it's better.

build them separatly, they won't dissapear or stop producing culture after calendar, you just won't be able to build any more.

30 hammers is expensive for new cities..
And the most important is to build other obelisks.
The fact they disappear or lose producing culture after calendar isn't important because only the 10 first culture points are important.

and delaying techs due to your wonderlust with any regularity is bad news.

I know, but you can do something to keep them the most time as possible, like researching equivalent techs that don't make obsolete your precious wonders.

wonders can be a crutch that prevent you from learning the skills to cope without them.

You talk about something like Steam motors that do the same thing as Holy Sophia ?

calendar itself may not, in your eyes, be worth losing all those obelisks; but it opens up other branches of the tech tree.

You don't learn to me something new, I know this all, but you have to find what is the best way to keep wonders the most time as possible, but without being in late in techs, but it depends on your needs : If you don't need Galleons, you won't need Calendar => Astronomy, but if at the end, there is a final tech that I need, I will make Calendar, to have all the next technologies, you can find what is the best way : To profit of both sides in the same time.

a balanced research approach cuts down research times, as well.

It's untrue, because if you do the most expensive researches first, or if you do the less expensive researches first, at the end it will result in the same advancement.

no. you're wrong. on this poll, a solid 50% disagreeing with you completely, it's not unbalanced to those players.

I didn't say the contrary, but at the origins, I have given it as a thing that should be done by patch, not by myself in modding I don't know what.
After, I have seen that there is more people that prefer not to change than people who agree with me, so I'll leave this suggestion, the other side gave strong arguments (some arguments are ridiculous like "this is a too small boat" or the most arguments that don't want settlers & workers on caravels), and even if I stay on my positions and even if I know that this is a needed change, I won't continue, due to the numerous people who disagree, but even if there is 99% that disagree, maybe they are all wrong, and that the truth is for the 1%, but the game developpers don't have to choose the way "it's true" but the way "the people like", because they don't make something perfect by an unbiased/true point of view, but they make something that is liked by most people... unfortunately.

making a post always takes less time than modding.

In a post you just have to write.
In modding, you have to search files, you have to change values, you have to rewrite with strange codes...
You need much more knowledge.

i can't stress this enough, danicela, it takes about 5 minutes to learn how to change XML

Maybe 5 minutes to know how to change XML, but hours and many practice to know what to change for each thing, what each thing means, and to know all about XML.

i had no knowledge of any programming

I don't talk about programming knowledge, but you need knowledge on XML, you need to know how to use/what to change/know all, about XML, and this takes many time and reflection, much more than making a simple post...

and made a smartass remark to someone who suggested that someone "just mod it".

Some things have to be changed by patch.

a nice man told me exactly how to edit my xml. it took him about 1 paragraph.

Knowing to modify XML is something, but knowing what to modify, knowing all, and knowing what each element is, about XML, is another.
Like for : Knowing to write alphabet is something, knowing to write words, sentences, and knowing their sense, is another.

you can find it yourself on the creation and custonization forum

I don't care !
This is something that should be done by patch !
I won't change myself something like that !
I want to keep the official version, I don't want to modify by ethic reasons, this would make a false real version.

i cut and pasted 1 phrase, 3 times, then saved one file in a new folder. it took literally 2 minutes.

But you know XML.
I don't know XML.
Learning XML takes many time, much more time than making a post, it takes hours.
If I wanted to do it by XML, I would do it, what you think...
And even if I knew XML, I won't make this thing by modding myself while this is something that needs to be changed by patch.

if you can cut and paste, or change zero's to one's then you can edit xml.

But you have to know to what correspond the elements.

it's barely modding, even though you can have huge impact in the game.

I know, I didn't say the contrary, but this is not the point.

you are unforgettable

Why ?
I didn't do anything that marks minds.
I'm forgettable.

unbelieveable

Why ?
I didn't do anything that is strange, I say only pure logic, and truth.
I'm believable.

unsane

Why ?
I didn't do anything that is fool, mad, or false, all what I say is normal, proved
I'm not insane, just normal, the problem comes from you, not from me, don't reverse the roles.

 

[naterator]

danicela, what's unbelieveable about you, besides your general mannerisms, is that, rather than learn the paramaters of a game and adjusting to them, you expect the game to learn what you like and adapt to you. the cherry on top is that you refuse to learn the simple way to do this yourself. it's not some kind of bizarre code language, a quick scroll through the xml would reveal this to you, but you'd rather sit and fold your arms and pout than stand up on your own.
you admit that religion is better than stonehenge for culture, yet refuse to use it because you don't want to wait for the missionaries? here's some common sense for you then, BUILD THE MISSIONARIES WHILE YOU BUILD YOUR SETTLER! wow! what an obvious idea! you can have that 1 (or 2 or more if you have more religions) culture per turn right off the bat, you just need to plan a tiny bit ahead! and as fora 30 hammer obelisk being too expensive for a new city? what are you building in your new city that's so important anyway? waiting for an obelisk takes alot less time than waiting for anything else! even a missionary. in my games, my cities often will sit there with just the little square of culture for centuries! sometimes only my capital and holy city will have a fat cross before libraries! the fat cross is nice, but a city of less than size 10 doesn't really need it. if you're trying to get a resource of some more good land, then build an obelisk or missionary for that city. you can also use the culture slider, but since you don't want to let your science dip below 90%, you probably wouldn't even consider this an option. maybe it should be edited out in a patch, since you personally don't use it. clearly this is the only option!
when i talk of wonders doing more harm than good, the hagia sophia isn't exactly what i mean. it's more like feeling like you MUST build stonehenge for the culture, or MUST build the oracle to get a certain tech early. no wonder is so great that you can't do without it. if you really want early border expansion, use a creative leader, or do what i do, kill your neighbors, then there's no big rush to pop those borders.
and yes, danicela, a balanced tech tree DOES reduce research times in 2 ways:
1) knowing multiple prerequisites for a tech add to your beakers per turn
2) knowing multiple civilizations who have a tech adds to your beakers per turn.
so you can research quicker by learning all the prerequisites first and not straying too far up one path. going up a single path, i.e. military, will get you to more expensive techs before you are ready. it's high risk, high reward. it's a gamble to get ahead in one area by lagging in others. especially if you choose to lag in your economic development! calendar nets lots of happiness health, and gold! i understand that sometimes you have nothing to plantation, but i almost always have something.

and back to XML for just a second. danicela, if you would take the 5 minutes to open the XML you'd change your tune completely. your complete unwillingness to try this is baffling. i understand that you don't know where or what to do, despite the thread where salamandre told you everything you needed to know, and you, as usual, took it as an insult. look danny boy, i've been pretty forthright with my opinion about your mental prowess. and yet i'm absoultly certain that if you took the time to see how the XML is arranged, you'd be modding away in minutes. it's not encrypted into computer talk, most things are plain english, like

<bPillage>0</bPillage>

zero is no, one is yes, so change the zero to a one, and you can pilliage. they've cleverly hidden this in the "civ4unitinfos" file. sneaky. how will we ever find the appropriate files with such a rediculous naming system. and putting it in the "units" folder is a dirty trick too. it all follows logic, danicela, so maybe you couldn't do it after all.
and before you repeat yourself again, danicela... i know you do not care! i know you don't want to do something for yourself when you can simply cry about how wrong you think it is. THE GAME WILL NOT ADJUST TO YOU PERSONALLY WITHOUT BASIC MODDING!!!! the AI can barely adjust to build spearmen when it sees a stack of horse archers, it will never grasp the mind of danicela unless you start typing some of those ideas for it to digest.

 

[Olleus]

Danicela why are you incapable of making a post without quoting a dozen other people? We have read the thread and we know what people have said.

First of all, this should not be changed in a patch. You own poll shows that the majority of people like the game as it is!! Why should the game designers do something specialy to suit you when most people would like the game less if they made that change? If you want something, mod it, hell someone's even done it for you! why do you feel the need to impose your changes on us.

 

[Salamandre]

If you people do a search for Danicela polls, you would understand the attitude to adopt: Ignore them, he is fantastic at upseting people through arogant and flame statements. A kid.


With him, none has the last word but himself. Even the moderators experienced this, leading to a short ban. Get it over!

 

[naterator]

oh yeah, danicela's "vacation"! we should take advantage and try to get back on topic, or at least back within the neighborhood.

but does anyone else believe that the game could use another ship, buildable the same time as the caravel, that, like the frigate, is for military use only?

the ship i'd want at the same time is privateer! 2 ships that can cross open water and enter enemy land. one for good, one for evil! it'd be tough to balance, though. in civ III the privateer was never balanced.

 

[Jarrod32]

A point made earlier gets to the heart of the issue...you can travel through other civs territory w/o open borders with a caravel, and the ability to carry a settler through that territory would be a bit unbalancing.

I am not seeing much support for caravels to be able to carry military units (and rightfully so), so I am wondering...if you can carry a settler on a caravel, how are you going to defend that settler when it gets to where it is going?

 

[IglooDame]

Caravels with pillage? I'd mod them back to the way they are now in a heartbeat, it'd be the first time I'd modded anything, too.

 

[Danicela]

Reserved for future use.

 

[Draconian]

In a post you just have to write.
In modding, you have to search files, you have to change values, you have to rewrite with strange codes...
You need much more knowledge.

Partially true, but sometimes I even wish people would need more knowledge to be able to post.

Oh and on the topic: I think caravells are fine the way they are. Maybe add in a military ship at the same time which can pillage but not move through foreign borders without declaring war. The ability to transport settlers over ocean tiles should stay where it is (astrononmy). And what is a defenceless city on another continent good for? Free stuff for other civs/barbarians? It wouldn't even have a trade route to your other citys.

 

[Kissamies]

Caravels being able to transport settlers? No, no, no, no, no, NO! That would be very bad. Getting astronomy and galleons is interesting part of the game. That's probably why the tech is expensive. You search the good spots with caravels and then go settle them when you get galleons.

Pillaging ability I don't miss either, but I wouldn't be against it. Doesn't matter to me. Such as it is, civs usually have plenty of caravels around and though they can take down galleys, they are not real warships.