Carthage UA Question

[Ajuga]

'All coastal cities get a free habor. Units may cross mountains after the first great general is earned, but taking 50 HP damage if they end a turn on a mountain.'

So they can walk over mountain tiles but take 50 HP damage when they end their turn on a mountain.
Does that mean that mountains have no movement penalties associated with it (like hills) and instead act like flat land? Otherwise it would be hardly useful when you want to cross more than 1 mountain tile as moving over 2 mountain tiles means you stop twice, losing all your health.

Thoughts?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Nobody know for sure, but that's what many of us are lead to believe.

 

[OsmarChito]

'All coastal cities get a free habor. Units may cross mountains after the first great general is earned, but taking 50 HP damage if they end a turn on a mountain.'

So they can walk over mountain tiles but take 50 HP damage when they end their turn on a mountain.
Does that mean that mountains have no movement penalties associated with it (like hills) and instead act like flat land? Otherwise it would be hardly useful when you want to cross more than 1 mountain tile as moving over 2 mountain tiles means you stop twice, losing all your health.

Thoughts?

i think they get 1 penalty movement like hills but i think elephants had 3 movements so they don't end up on that mountain

 

[Montov]

Mounted units need to be able to cross a mountain tile in 1 turn, otherwise you can't cross 2 mountain next to each other. On the other hand, you don't see a lot of those situations, so I have no idea what Firaxis has done with it.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

mmmmm . . harbors.

 

[JIntegrity]

I honestly think the more powerful of the two abilities is being grossly overlooked. With a free harbor in every city, you get trade routes in all your coastal cities (and almost all of your cities should be on the coast with this civ') that require no gold to maintain. You take that, add it with the Messenger of the Gods pantheon for +2 science per city upon founding, take Commerce (that's not something you hear every day) to bolster the navy you'll want to protect your coasts, +1 gold in every city, and, much more importantly, the +3 bonus to production to every city found there.

All this is without even founding religion, and Commerce can be acquired fairly easily, and you can stop after taking Trade Unions and Merchant Navy. The best thing to note is all of these abilities and synergies still keep Carthage versatile. Sure you get +2 science in each city, you can use that to play a science game, or allow it to give you more opportunities to opt for improving your nation in some other aspect rather than focusing on science (much like France does with culture). Sure, if played in that manner, you get +3 production and +1 gold per city (plus +3 gold you're saving for not having to pay upkeep on those harbors and the income generated by the trade routes), but, once again, these are general bonuses that are useful no matter how you opt to play.

The only limitations I see are that you'll want a lot of cities all on the coast, but that seems hardly a limitation for what you receive in return, and with the advances to naval combat coming with G&K it might be fun to try and conquer the coasts if that's your desire...

Moving on mountains is cool, but I think it will be one of those abilities that is largely overlooked in many games, and will prove crucial in others, no matter how it works.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

On top of that, hopefully we'll see some changes to Commerce to make it more worthwhile.

The harbor power was actually the most interesting to me as the civ abilities leaked in. Not "interesting" as in "unique" I guess, but it's the one I want to try. If you feel you can live without roads, you'll become an economic beast. And besides, Carthage was the first civ I played in CivII and became a personal favorite.

 

[JIntegrity]

Honestly, if the changes affect Trade Unions or Merchant Army, it hurts Carthage to modify Commerce. Naval Tradition and Protectionism need some work, and the Finisher (and arguably the opener) are simply dismal.

However, the Big Ben/Mercantilism combo is quite powerful, and could be a viable option for Carthage as well, but that's not exactly Carthage specific (though the fact she's Commerce already reduces the opportunity cost for this strategy a bit...).

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I just feel that it needs to be just as attractive as the other policies (and it isn't right now).

 

[GenjiKhan]

Usually one of the biggest problems on building a wide empire overseas is about connecting your cities to the capital,because you can't use workers to do such thing,unlike land expansions . And that gold from trade routes make a lot of difference for sustain the development of your cities . It seems that Carthage will be my favorite Civ for Water maps .

 

[MadDjinn]

I honestly think the more powerful of the two abilities is being grossly overlooked. With a free harbor in every city, you get trade routes in all your coastal cities (and almost all of your cities should be on the coast with this civ') that require no gold to maintain. You take that, add it with the Messenger of the Gods pantheon for +2 science per city upon founding, take Commerce (that's not something you hear every day) to bolster the navy you'll want to protect your coasts, +1 gold in every city, and, much more importantly, the +3 bonus to production to every city found there.

true, but don't forget the hammers.

A free harbour = free hammers on sea resources. Toss on Goddess of the Seas (I think) and you get another hammer on top of that.

Add a seaport and you've gained +3 hammers/sea resource for the cost of a seaport!

Water maps tend to have less productive coastal cities early game, but Carthage will be beastly there.

 

[Ajuga]

Now don't misunderstand! I love the free harbors part and think this is really nice as an UA.
I just find the 'move over mountains' part silly if it's not really something that people will use.

 

[ShahJahanII]

Now don't misunderstand! I love the free harbors part and think this is really nice as an UA.
I just find the 'move over mountains' part silly if it's not really something that people will use.

Some civs (like the Incas) love to spawn behind mountains. So this may just come in handy.

 

[kiwimaster]

Does the "free" in free harbours mean that they'll also be maintenance free too or what?

 

[ShahJahanII]

Does the "free" in free harbours mean that they'll also be maintenance free too or what?

No, just that you will receive one automatically.

 

[elprofesor]

We don't know, actually, but some speculate that it's maintenance free too, because a harbour on turn one might destroy your economy before it has a chance to take off.

 

[HeraldtheGreat]

I hope not, otherwise the Carthaginian UA would REALLY suck, but I'm guessing that the mountain tiles will cost 2 moveement, so your elephants should do fine for at least 1 mountain since they get 3 movement. Also I think that GK focused a too much on the battle of Cannae since by my knowledge the pheonecians were not exactly mountaineers

 

[Verified_Confection_Being]

The mountains thing is basically a big ass penalty to get around annoying bottlenecks. Easy and unexpected flanking

I can see it being very useful, if a little situational.

Also VERY useful for early scouting. Scouts will move over them as normal tiles, we can be pretty sure of that. I don't know how many times i've seen inaccessible ruins due to mountains or i've missed out on ruins because i've had to wander round them. I imagine they'll give views over everything too, so LOS will be unobstructed in all directions.

Very cool ability.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

"Messenger of the God" won't be applied immediately to new cities, the Harbors have to "connect" themselves first, once you build a harbor I don't believe you get a trade route right away in the city to the capital.

 

[Gucumatz]

"Messenger of the God" won't be applied immediately to new cities, the Harbors have to "connect" themselves first, once you build a harbor I don't believe you get a trade route right away in the city to the capital.

If you have your capital on the coast, you will get an automatic trade route with every coastal city you build. Otherwise you need a coastal city connected to your capital by road.

Making Carthage a great liberty/expanding civ on the coast. Happiness right away, production/food right away and some gold from trade routes.