Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Except it (ore) was and still is.
Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)
- Thread starter strategyonly
- Start date
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Once infrastructure allowed it, which is at the point in time that roads or sea travel enable the construction of the national smelter which can use Ore you trade for.
Konrad Klar
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2005
- Messages
- 123
I propose the "Always Active" and "Disable Always Active" actions for units.
Purpose of "Always Active" would be activating an unit (or group of them) each turn regardless of what BuildUp or worker action is active for the unit (group).
Sometimes I enable some BuildUp action as short rest for given unit and I do not plan to leave the unit to in this state permanently (that seldom makes a sense in case of self-healing/repairing BuilldUp actions). Searching for the unit on big map to manually activating it is inconvenient.
If it comes to units engaged in worker actions it may be usable if someone wants to interrupt the action before the unit will be consumed (i.e. he is prebuilding an improvement); for group o workers it may be additionally usable because often at completion some unit(s) still has(have) movement points (unfortunately game does not notify a player about such situation).
Purpose of "Always Active" would be activating an unit (or group of them) each turn regardless of what BuildUp or worker action is active for the unit (group).
Sometimes I enable some BuildUp action as short rest for given unit and I do not plan to leave the unit to in this state permanently (that seldom makes a sense in case of self-healing/repairing BuilldUp actions). Searching for the unit on big map to manually activating it is inconvenient.
If it comes to units engaged in worker actions it may be usable if someone wants to interrupt the action before the unit will be consumed (i.e. he is prebuilding an improvement); for group o workers it may be additionally usable because often at completion some unit(s) still has(have) movement points (unfortunately game does not notify a player about such situation).
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
There is a healing command that will enable the most powerful buildups possible both for the unit healing and those supporting it included in the stack when that command is selected, but will wake the stack up after all units have healed.
What is better strategy for increasing 
for Industrial era:
Just use increasing improvements on tiles without resources.
Or use Standard Ethanol corporation, plant certain plants (used by this corporation) on farms where possible and build this corporation special buildings.
Former is +
(no money spent on corporations) and +
Latter is - (corporation fees) +
(farms with food resources) and -+ (initial loss of from tiles then getting from corporation)
StrategyOnly maps are perfect for Standard Ethanol - few forests/hills are here, but once you get this corporation you can build its special buildings to boost
Great Farmer can be used since Medieval to place plants, that are used by this corporation.
Bigger cities means more too.
Irony is that he doesn't touch corporations at all - its just like money hungry religion, that you start with great person.
for Industrial era:Just use
increasing improvements on tiles without resources.Or use Standard Ethanol corporation, plant certain plants (used by this corporation) on farms where possible and build this corporation special buildings.
Former is +
(no money spent on corporations) and +Latter is -
(corporation fees) + (farms with food resources) and -+ (initial loss of from tiles then getting from corporation)StrategyOnly maps are perfect for Standard Ethanol - few forests/hills are here, but once you get this corporation you can build its special buildings to boost
Great Farmer can be used since Medieval to place plants, that are used by this corporation.
Bigger cities means more
too.Irony is that he doesn't touch corporations at all - its just like money hungry religion, that you start with great person.
@Thunderbrd don't forget to add two new options in DLL list.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
OK. Will do that soon. Doesn't seem to be causing any trouble right now of course.
@raxo2222 : I have a small quest for you.
The insectoid civ use the ART_DEF_CIVILIZATION_BARBARIAN.
Would you mind fixing them an unique ART_DEF with a placeholder civ btn?
<Button>: If you don't know how to make a new dds button texture, just reuse any button in the game that you find appropriate that is not a civ button.
<Path>: You can let them use the same flag decal as barbarians do.
The insectoid civ use the ART_DEF_CIVILIZATION_BARBARIAN.
Would you mind fixing them an unique ART_DEF with a placeholder civ btn?
<Button>: If you don't know how to make a new dds button texture, just reuse any button in the game that you find appropriate that is not a civ button.
<Path>: You can let them use the same flag decal as barbarians do.
@Thunderbrd Achievements have their effect buildings, that affect properties in city.
But Ordnance affect them in all cities.
This one look one shoot @AIAndy
Should I make them work like Achievement Effect buildings?
This one acts on property every turn.
I'll give PropertiesAllCities to Alpha Male to see what happens.
Yup, its one shoot thing.
Good job guys, I found prehistoric bug.
On other hand it is Industrial+ zone, that now is existing as is.
Lets see Flammability - static property.
It works for Flammability property.
This means following items have to be fixed
National Smoking Prohibition (-10 Air Pollution, Urban Culture - Information):
Automobile Emission Reduction Act (-50 Air Pollution, Ecology - Modern):
Carpool (-25 Air Pollution, Motorized Transportation - Industrial)
Clean Air Act (-100 Air Pollution, Ecology - Modern)
Clean Water Act (-100 Water Pollution, Ecology - Modern)
Commuter Shuttle Service (-25 Air Pollution, Motorized Transportation - Industrial)
Smoking Prohibition (-5 Air Pollution, Urban Culture - Information)
Tire Recycling Program (-25 Air Pollution, Recycling - Modern)
They all need Courthouse (Supreme Court in case of National Smoking Ban)
Department of Motor Vehicles (Motorized Transportation):
Automobile Emission Reduction Act, Carpool, Commuter Shuttle Services
Department of Energy (Electricity): Clear Air Act
Department of Water (Plumbing): Clear Water Act
Garbage Collection Agency (Motorized Transportation): Tire Recycling Program
Supreme Court (Jurisprudence): National Smoking Prohibition
Those all are ordinances.
This is enough to offset pollution from factories!
-50 Air at Industrial
-175 Air, -100 Water at Modern
-15 Air at Information
Since National Smoking Prohibition gives free Smoking Prohibition buildings, it will reduce pollution by 15 in city.
It will replace same buildings as Smoking Prohibition ordnance.
Smoking Prohibition ordnance will be replaced by National Smoking Prohibition to not double on effect.
If I made it excluding tag (Can't have X if Y present), then it would be problematic:
National Smoking Prohibition needs National Wonder, if Smoking Prohibition was here, then you couldn't build National Smoking Prohibition.
My changes should help with runaway pollution too.
I'm not sure if AI even builds Judges to build Ordinances though.
But Ordnance affect them in all cities.
Code:
<PropertiesAllCities>
<Property>
<PropertyType>PROPERTY_AIR_POLLUTION</PropertyType>
<iPropertyValue>-50</iPropertyValue>
</Property>
</PropertiesAllCities>Should I make them work like Achievement Effect buildings?
Code:
<PropertySource>
<PropertySourceType>PROPERTYSOURCE_CONSTANT</PropertySourceType>
<PropertyType>PROPERTY_AIR_POLLUTION</PropertyType>
<iAmountPerTurn>-50</iAmountPerTurn>
</PropertySource>
</PropertyManipulators>I'll give PropertiesAllCities to Alpha Male to see what happens.
Yup, its one shoot thing.
Good job guys, I found prehistoric bug.
On other hand it is Industrial+ zone, that now is existing as is.
Lets see Flammability - static property.
It works for Flammability property.
This means following items have to be fixed
National Smoking Prohibition (-10 Air Pollution, Urban Culture - Information):
Automobile Emission Reduction Act (-50 Air Pollution, Ecology - Modern):
Carpool (-25 Air Pollution, Motorized Transportation - Industrial)
Clean Air Act (-100 Air Pollution, Ecology - Modern)
Clean Water Act (-100 Water Pollution, Ecology - Modern)
Commuter Shuttle Service (-25 Air Pollution, Motorized Transportation - Industrial)
Smoking Prohibition (-5 Air Pollution, Urban Culture - Information)
Tire Recycling Program (-25 Air Pollution, Recycling - Modern)
They all need Courthouse (Supreme Court in case of National Smoking Ban)
Department of Motor Vehicles (Motorized Transportation):
Automobile Emission Reduction Act, Carpool, Commuter Shuttle Services
Department of Energy (Electricity): Clear Air Act
Department of Water (Plumbing): Clear Water Act
Garbage Collection Agency (Motorized Transportation): Tire Recycling Program
Supreme Court (Jurisprudence): National Smoking Prohibition
Those all are ordinances.
This is enough to offset pollution from factories!
-50 Air at Industrial
-175 Air, -100 Water at Modern
-15 Air at Information
Since National Smoking Prohibition gives free Smoking Prohibition buildings, it will reduce pollution by 15 in city.
It will replace same buildings as Smoking Prohibition ordnance.
Smoking Prohibition ordnance will be replaced by National Smoking Prohibition to not double on effect.
If I made it excluding tag (Can't have X if Y present), then it would be problematic:
National Smoking Prohibition needs National Wonder, if Smoking Prohibition was here, then you couldn't build National Smoking Prohibition.
My changes should help with runaway pollution too.
I'm not sure if AI even builds Judges to build Ordinances though.
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JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
@DH,
I finally got into the Medieval Era and 2/3rd of the way thru this Era by using the Great Farmer was able to "plant" a Horse resource. Now I can cut off Japan's extortion for Tech from keeping the trade horse to me active.
Good ploy actually for the AI thru Diplomacy and Trading.
I finally got into the Medieval Era and 2/3rd of the way thru this Era by using the Great Farmer was able to "plant" a Horse resource. Now I can cut off Japan's extortion for Tech from keeping the trade horse to me active.
Good ploy actually for the AI thru Diplomacy and Trading.I guess no AI sold you Tamed Horses@DH,
I finally got into the Medieval Era and 2/3rd of the way thru this Era by using the Great Farmer was able to "plant" a Horse resource. Now I can cut off Japan's extortion for Tech from keeping the trade horse to me active.
How was gameplay after all those changes?
Are you somewhere in 600 - 1300 AD
If half of players still is in Classical by 600 AD or half of players is already in Renaissance by 1300 AD then things are good.
Same with AIs in game: Half of civs being in era X and other half of AIs in Era X+1 on date target is good.
By the way some of you weren't careful with new tags....
Ordinances never reduced pollution because wrong tags were used.
Now with total potential of -240 Air pollution and -100 Water pollution they should counter all resource producing factories (+5 pollution per resource producing factory).
All seven ordinances removing pollution in mature game.
They weren't used in Trantor's game (Nanotech era), so I had nice testing ground for them.
Spoiler :
Now you gained effective tool to combat pollution in Industrial - Information era (Ordinances), that was broken all the time.
Attachments
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Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Sounds like you got this. Awesome catch on that one. Do you need me to answer anything now though? Not that I can promise I would be able to... just asking.
They work good now.
Can AI build Judges and then build Ordinances with them?
Or in general can AI build unit X to place building Y with it?
By the way building replacement method works fine if you don' t want free building and its spawning building to be in same city:
X gives free Y in all cities.
Y is replaced by X.
This means if you place X where Y is, then latter gets replaced and only X is here.
Y won't get spawned either in city where X is built too.
This is what I did to National Smoking Prohibition (needs National Wonder) and Smoking Prohibition.
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Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I don't know but I suspect ordinance AI is probably greatly lacking or completely missing.
I guess you could add code to AI, so it can know if any unit can build building or place resource.
Maybe you could add subcombat class "Builder", so AI could know units, that are capable of building something.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Using a Judge to build something the AI seems to know about. Building a Judge to build something I am not so sure about. However it does build other units that build stuff in a similar way so there may be some AI somewhere in there and the Judge just needs to be linked to it.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I agree this is probably where we are at with this. There's a bit more to it though. And might I just say that this sort of AI work is NOT a small project. As I've seen so far, no AI has ever trained a Judge. So it doesn't know why to. And if it did, the full evaluation of what buildings it could build and why that would be a motivation to train the unit would be an intensely complex thing to evaluate. I'm not sure if it could be so good at understanding that like civics, these worldview buildings are situationally beneficial and perhaps dependent on personality. The civic evaluation code is quite complex and the building AI, let alone the training selection AI, are not nearly so developed to read grey zones. And if they were made to be, it might REALLY slow down turn times. We might need to figure out a more direct way to tell the AI that it needs a judge - when and why and how to use it once it is trained, rather than the usual standard of getting the AI to evaluate everything about its options and try to determine best courses from there.
The approach in this case might be best to give a set of instructions, through the leader infos (personalities), as to when they will want to gain or dismiss various worldviews, perhaps by tech gained or some other generic triggers we can give them. Then when they indicate they want or don't want a worldview, they are motivated to train and/or use any unit available that can make that change happen for them for that purpose.
Many of the units it builds for the purpose of constructing other buildings are being given other motives for training those units and then the unit AI just makes the unit determine itself more useful for the constructing of a building - it goes and does that and then it's gone and now the AI finds that original motive for training them again and tends to repeat until the buildings are in place AND the original need is resolved.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Have Never seen Tamed Horse as a Trade object ever, Only horse.
I hit Ren Era at about 720AD, Immortal, Blitz, 6 AI, Large C2c_World. Khymer is already into Modern Era. 2 other AI into Ren Era before me. And 1 of those is hitting Ind. Era now at 767 AD.
There is No Tech D. On, No WFL, No other options that aid the AI in research Nor any Option that Hinders the player. No Rev, No Inquistion, No Barb Civ or World.
Here is Save game for you to look at. No spoilers please!
EDIT: SVN 10251
Looks like game progresses too fast. I was aiming for Monarch/Emperor players though.
There is Upscaled Research Costs option, that is meant to slow down players and AI, so they don't overshoot calendar.
@Dancing Hoskuld here goes your unit based trade of animals.
This is why you should be able to convert non-vicinity animal resource (tile too far from cities for vicinity or AI trade) into vicinity resource not counting good old conquest or founding new cities.
Or AI just should keep small pool of units, that can build buildings or place resources.
@Thunderbrd is it possible to teach AI to keep such buffer?
Even buffer of one or two units of given type could help.
For example there could be always that Judge with ordnances ready to build or this Tamed Animal ready to be traded or used.
Subdued animals that can't place buildings except myths/stories/story should be extempt from that.
AI could be also incentivised to build buildings if their cost is quarter or fifth of current production (National/Global Wonders - if cost is equal or smaller compared to current production)
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JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Not concerned about it nor will I be using that Option. Game is now updated to SVN 10260. I fixed 2 errors in the Economy Civics that I had overlooked back in 2017 when I was redoing the Inflation values there. And there is still a 3rd that needs to be done as well. But I'm not sure the Inflation tag in these will accept and properly use a "-" negative modifier. Gold Standard should remove or even reduce inflation ( Modifier should be 0 or even -5). But I will leave that decision up to you all, unless you all have no objections. If there are objections then I will defer to team consensus.
