charlesb96
King
Which Civics are supposed to give fixed borders?
Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)
- Thread starter strategyonly
- Start date
I believe this has already been fixed. Can you clarify whether you observed this in v25 or with the SVN recently?
I don't think this has been changed recently. Unless I'm forgetting something you added after V25, the only changes to the TW line was how the AI values them for building things. I'll bet that it would be simple to make sure that the AI doesn't include onlydefensive units in it's attack stacks, but I don't know if I'll be able to do that before we release V26.
I wonder if there is a way of making when hover over options for Great Farmer to show just a number of the resources a particular resource player has? Or maybe a number for each available option for GF? It would be an interesting and very handy .... I think ....
Vaya
Warlord
primem0ver
Emperor
Hello,
I had in mind to incorporate many of the the features of the Genetic Era Mod into this mod. I have already begun converting the regular SDK to accept those features. However, as I have began playing this mod this weekend, I noticed that several of those features have already been included such as undersea tunnels.
As such, there are only a few things to do:
Underwater cities
Graded Invisibility/Vision improvements (do these already exist?)
A slight modification to all-terrain-vehicles
Infrastructure/Metropolitan mod (from Genetic Era Mod).
PLUS... you have already done the groundwork for something else I wanted to add: A realistic map generator that simulates both plate tectonics (continental "drift") AND the Koppen Climate Classification system based on resulting geography. Your wide variety of terrains and features make this much easier to do since the vegetation, features and terrains that result already exist. The final step is the actual simulator and some ocean floor features (if possible).
Five questions:
1. Any thoughts?
2. Where can I get your version of the SDK so I can begin?
3. Has anyone made a "Mountain Range/Mini mountain" terrain? More like the original mountains but with less height? (as opposed to individual peaks)
4. It would be nice if "river" graphics could be recolored and duplicated for a different feature altogether: Rift valleys (in the ocean).
5. Based on 4 above, has anyone toyed with features that become visible with techs? I made a basic attempt a while ago in BtS but wasn't able to get it to work. They could still be seen prior to discovering the tech.
I had in mind to incorporate many of the the features of the Genetic Era Mod into this mod. I have already begun converting the regular SDK to accept those features. However, as I have began playing this mod this weekend, I noticed that several of those features have already been included such as undersea tunnels.
As such, there are only a few things to do:
Underwater cities
Graded Invisibility/Vision improvements (do these already exist?)
A slight modification to all-terrain-vehicles
Infrastructure/Metropolitan mod (from Genetic Era Mod).
PLUS... you have already done the groundwork for something else I wanted to add: A realistic map generator that simulates both plate tectonics (continental "drift") AND the Koppen Climate Classification system based on resulting geography. Your wide variety of terrains and features make this much easier to do since the vegetation, features and terrains that result already exist. The final step is the actual simulator and some ocean floor features (if possible).
Five questions:
1. Any thoughts?
2. Where can I get your version of the SDK so I can begin?
3. Has anyone made a "Mountain Range/Mini mountain" terrain? More like the original mountains but with less height? (as opposed to individual peaks)
4. It would be nice if "river" graphics could be recolored and duplicated for a different feature altogether: Rift valleys (in the ocean).
5. Based on 4 above, has anyone toyed with features that become visible with techs? I made a basic attempt a while ago in BtS but wasn't able to get it to work. They could still be seen prior to discovering the tech.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Under sea tunnels are bugged - because they actually act sort of like bridges and enemy land units in transports can disembark or attack your land units inside them. So they need some work. AI for building them is a bit off as well - they will build a tunnel to a resource then improve the resource.
Undersea cities have problems also
- they are on the surface and land as far as attack etc is concerned. *Calvery can attack them from surface transport vessels.
- they look like they are on the surface (we have the same problem with sea resources like vents and the like)
The whole sea terrain has room for improvement since the current "terrain" is not really about terrain but distance from coast and surface movement.
Our SVN includes SDK source code see here.
I also tried linking feature visibility to techs but could not get it to work. We have the ability to have multiple features in a plot in c2c but I have not tried it yet.
I've been recently playing with the raging barbs option on. I think it's kinda nice because of how much animals there are around.. The spawning of of non-animal barbs is a bit annoying but manageable and it keeps up a good fighting spirit early on 
The only problem with it is that on deity most of the AI lose their second city quite fast. Or never even get around making one. Something needs to be done to the early AI defence..
The only problem with it is that on deity most of the AI lose their second city quite fast. Or never even get around making one. Something needs to be done to the early AI defence..
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I have some plans to address the issues DH mentioned on these. Should be working on them rather soon actually.
I have written up a full plan to develop this out. I had intended it to be my next project but I've had a lot of other things come up since working on my current Combat Mod that are probably going to take precedence over this one. So if you would like, I could share with you my thoughts and we can maybe work out finer details of the plan together.
Would be interested to hear more on what you want to do with this.
Genetic Era mod is a Warlords mod right? That'd make it a bit difficult for me to try it to see what you're getting at here, so I'd like to hear what this entails. (Sounds good at first glance anyhow
)AIAndy was the goto guy for these issues and may have some ideas there. I don't know how much he was planning to commit to this project but I can say we all want this kind of stuff in place, especially including a lot of earth changes in the early stage of the game. We have a bug with trade routes that makes some of it difficult but I don't think we can't work that out either. So... yeah, this has been high on the wants list among C2C players.
Talk to Koshling to see if you can get a modders SVN access. If you have experience, a willingness to help, and the courtesy to be a good team player, I'm sure we're more than happy to add you to the team! (Coders are always in high demand!)
Ridges, eh? That'd be a neat idea.
Recently a modder on the CivFan site here developed a River mod where the rivers were in the center of tiles and boats could traverse them. We went gaga wanting it in our mod so I'd say we should hold off on river graphic changes until we get that in somehow. Another of our many future projects we all want to see come to fruition
.Again... a part of the plan I mentioned but something I don't know when I'd be working on and if you want to meld efforts in this dept I'd be more than happy to work with you here. As I've been working on my current projects I've been taking note as to how invisibility is worked into the mod already and I have realized it's an area that could present some difficulty as invisibility reports to the exe core and some of its processing takes place there. One thing that bugs me about this is units are either invisible or not - if seen they are visible to all units that belong to the owner of the unit that can see them... I was hoping to change that part but I guess its not 100% necessary to do so.
In the codes, terminology regarding invisibility is not terribly clear. But I figure if I spent some time really focusing on the processing of it, along with knowledge of how it works in game, I can sort it out fine.
1a. Underwater Cities would be a very large change from a code perspective, and considering that Thunderbrd is adding his major Unit changes AND we would like to get working on multi-maps 'soon', that may cause merge issues.
1b. Hover and levitation vehicles have been modified recently, now they can cross water and engage naval units, what else would you like to do
1c. T-brd has worked on the invisibility stuff, so that will be interesting to see.
1d. We have Housing and Admin buildings, so I don't know what else the Admin/Metropolitan mod has, I joined after Warlords, and so never experienced the Genetic Era mod.
1e. How similar (or not) would that generator be to PW3? I would love a more realistic mapscript, but I also think that it is good to work with what we already have.
2. https://caveman2cosmos.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/caveman2cosmos/trunk gets you the latest SVN.
3. Nope.
4. DH tried to make rift valleys, or Deep Ocean, a while ago, but ran into some issues and so that never happened, It would be great though if that were possible.
5. Also no, we converted many features into resources (we cracked the resource limit), so that is how we handle that.
As we make changes to building obsolescence and replacement, we keep getting (valid) complaints about not being able to build building X once building Y is replaced (most recently cannot (re)build a tannery once the storage pit is replaced by the granary).
How would people feel if we implemented an automatic rule (in the DLL) whereby if you require building X and have instead any building that replaces building X then that is sufficient to enable the building you want to build?
How would people feel if we implemented an automatic rule (in the DLL) whereby if you require building X and have instead any building that replaces building X then that is sufficient to enable the building you want to build?
primem0ver
Emperor
Ok... lots of responses so I will make a post for each topic and address all questions on that particular topic...
Sounds good to me. In fact, I'm surprised it wasn't already done (thus my "complaint" mentioned in your post).
primem0ver
Emperor
I have created this thread for discussion of how to complete this feature. However, I will address the immediate concerns mentioned above here.
Coming from a newbie to the C2C development scene I may not be fully qualified to say. However, I have already added the code to the standard BtS SDK. I haven't seen any serious conflicts so far (other than some syntax changes in existing classes). Keep in mind that this was a fully functional feature of the Genetic Era Mod with no bugs. The only issue in GEM was that the AI did not build the them nearly as often as humans did in later versions. (The AI DID build them before we added/changed the resource criteria we decided upon).
A side note regarding multi-maps... I have mixed feelings regarding such a feature. Whereas underwater cities are not as large of a change from a coding perspective as they might seem, switching out maps mid game, the graphics implications, and the GUI implementation required to do such a feat really is. Plus you have to write a whole new AI class for the behavior. I was very surprised to see it as a feature at all. We considered doing this in the GEM and decided against it in favor of more practical changes first.
1. No need to worry about that. GEM has code which prevents this. It could have a few issues but I don't remember ever seeing it happen. Same goes for undersea tunnels. The only time undersea tunnels were attacked from above was when they were pillaged. Which makes sense...and should be allowed.
2. This is probably going to be an issue (the ONLY issue I can foresee). There probably isn't much room between the "ground" later in the ocean and the "surface" later that provides the waves. The only solution I can see at the moment (besides making all the structures extremely flat) is removing the surface wave animation from the plot (if that is possible). It WOULD be nice if we could make a deeper ocean floor using modified graphics but I am not certain how feasible this is.
ls612 said:
Coming from a newbie to the C2C development scene I may not be fully qualified to say. However, I have already added the code to the standard BtS SDK. I haven't seen any serious conflicts so far (other than some syntax changes in existing classes). Keep in mind that this was a fully functional feature of the Genetic Era Mod with no bugs. The only issue in GEM was that the AI did not build the them nearly as often as humans did in later versions. (The AI DID build them before we added/changed the resource criteria we decided upon).
A side note regarding multi-maps... I have mixed feelings regarding such a feature. Whereas underwater cities are not as large of a change from a coding perspective as they might seem, switching out maps mid game, the graphics implications, and the GUI implementation required to do such a feat really is. Plus you have to write a whole new AI class for the behavior. I was very surprised to see it as a feature at all. We considered doing this in the GEM and decided against it in favor of more practical changes first.
Dancing Koskuld said:
1. No need to worry about that. GEM has code which prevents this. It could have a few issues but I don't remember ever seeing it happen. Same goes for undersea tunnels. The only time undersea tunnels were attacked from above was when they were pillaged. Which makes sense...and should be allowed.
2. This is probably going to be an issue (the ONLY issue I can foresee). There probably isn't much room between the "ground" later in the ocean and the "surface" later that provides the waves. The only solution I can see at the moment (besides making all the structures extremely flat) is removing the surface wave animation from the plot (if that is possible). It WOULD be nice if we could make a deeper ocean floor using modified graphics but I am not certain how feasible this is.
primem0ver
Emperor
Again, I have posted a new discussion thread to communicate regarding features and implementation. Please see this thread for posting your plans/ideas/comments and I will do the same. Again, this is a fully functioning mod within the Genetic Era Mod for Warlords (although again, the AI could use some work). I will present what I created in the first two posts of the new thread.
EDIT: To address concern I just noticed:
I would be very surprised if this was actually the case. None of the invisibility handling was in the exe core for Warlords and BtS tried to offload as much as they felt possible to the DLL. I simply had to add a replacement CvInvisibleInfos class and modified the code to replace the old generic class with the new one. I have noticed that BtS created a separate file for InvisibleInfos this time around but from what I have seen so far in the SDK, the Invisible class is still based on CvInfoBase or an easily replaced derivative.
BTW: Conceptually it was simple to do. I don't mean to imply coding it was simple.
EDIT: To address concern I just noticed:
Thunderbrd said:
I would be very surprised if this was actually the case. None of the invisibility handling was in the exe core for Warlords and BtS tried to offload as much as they felt possible to the DLL. I simply had to add a replacement CvInvisibleInfos class and modified the code to replace the old generic class with the new one. I have noticed that BtS created a separate file for InvisibleInfos this time around but from what I have seen so far in the SDK, the Invisible class is still based on CvInfoBase or an easily replaced derivative.
BTW: Conceptually it was simple to do. I don't mean to imply coding it was simple.
primem0ver
Emperor
This was a fairly simple mod that was added to GEM. It was composed of three simple parts (although the AI would have added a fourth one not so simple. See below):
1. The addition of the suburb and the "metropolitan area" to the end of the cottage, hamlet, village etc.... improvement chain.
2. The addition of the graphics associated with the above.
3. A new process called "Infrastructure" Just like the existing processes allowed the building of gold, science, etc... within a city, the Infrastructure process applied city work to speeding up the rate at which this progression occurred. Thus, by building "Infrastructure" in a town, I could cut the time to build my next upgrade to one half or more. I think it went down to a quarter or so with enough money.
NOTE: This GEM process was only usable by human players. The logic and conditions under which the AI should use this process were rather fuzzy so I left the AI alone, never getting around to creating one.
1. The addition of the suburb and the "metropolitan area" to the end of the cottage, hamlet, village etc.... improvement chain.
2. The addition of the graphics associated with the above.
3. A new process called "Infrastructure" Just like the existing processes allowed the building of gold, science, etc... within a city, the Infrastructure process applied city work to speeding up the rate at which this progression occurred. Thus, by building "Infrastructure" in a town, I could cut the time to build my next upgrade to one half or more. I think it went down to a quarter or so with enough money.
NOTE: This GEM process was only usable by human players. The logic and conditions under which the AI should use this process were rather fuzzy so I left the AI alone, never getting around to creating one.
primem0ver
Emperor
Thunderbrd said:
The SDK for BtS simply does not handle the bCanMoveAllTerrain like it should. As I was merging the code to the standard BtS SDK, I found places where it should have been used and it wasn't.
I felt the simplest solution was to keep my merged changes (since I was already nearly finished by the time I discovered this tag... Units is near the end of the classes when going alphabetically) so that one could use either method. Honestly, I prefer the DOMAIN_ALL tag.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
In the next day or two I'll dig out the plans I had for the visibility mod and share them with you. I have a feeling it'll be pretty similar to what you have in mind already.
That's perfect for C2C I think. The town improvement line could use some improvement and I can see some additional uses for building Infrastructure and how that would play into some ideas I have for a mod down the road.
Very interesting...
@primem0ver:
1. Your use of GEM is slightly confusing, I know you mean Genetic Era Mod, but we tend to use GEM to refer to the Giant Earth Map. Just sayin.
2. With Multi-Maps, we already have the hard part (graphics), now we just have the time-consuming part (actual multi-maps) to do. Someone else said it much better than myself, they said that we are different because we not only have a lot of crazy ideas, but we are actually making them a reality.
3. I suggest you talk to SO and Koshling about getting an SVN account, if you are serious about adding Genetic Era features to C2C.
1. Your use of GEM is slightly confusing, I know you mean Genetic Era Mod, but we tend to use GEM to refer to the Giant Earth Map. Just sayin.
2. With Multi-Maps, we already have the hard part (graphics), now we just have the time-consuming part (actual multi-maps) to do. Someone else said it much better than myself, they said that we are different because we not only have a lot of crazy ideas, but we are actually making them a reality.
3. I suggest you talk to SO and Koshling about getting an SVN account, if you are serious about adding Genetic Era features to C2C.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
According to Koshling, and what we see with viewports graphics and GUI are not an issue. Switching maybe.
Good. The lack of AI was the reason for their removal in RoM, RoM:AND and C2C.
1) I tried to implement Kathy's "Deep Sea" mod in C2C then realised that the ocean graphics were not terrain graphics but graphics telling where you could move.
2) hrochland has made graphics that are both below and above the water line so they don't need to be flattened. I am not a graphics person.
On peaks: I think we are restricted to one type by the SDK. Otherwise I would already have added desert, Lunar and Martian peaks to our terrain set.
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