Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I've never liked how that chain works. Personally, I feel that railways should be extraordinarily expensive per space and a player should be informed that their intent is NOT to cover every space and that they should wait for Highways (to get roughly the same amount of movement on the rest of the spaces) and just use Rails to connect cities and to aid mines and lumbermills.

Better still is if we could split rails and roads into two differing path types that can co-exist...

That is not the way Civ routes work it is not a Railroad game. Anyway until someone fixes the pathing mechanism you are going to have to put the fastest route on every tile anyway. Yes Koshling has done great work on the pathing mechanism but it does not work for stacks containing different units. It also has a tendency to avoid ending a a turn inside a city preferring to go around it even if it adds a whole turn to the total move.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

A big problem I have with C2C is the units that just sit in cities and do nothing. I find that just having the units sitting there greatly detracts from the game to the extent that after they get beyond a certain number, three in my case, I stop playing. Surley they can be replaced buildings and the clutter removed!

The units I am talking about are the healers needed to stop disease, police units to stop crime and the new anti-pollution units.

What is the healer hut if it is not the building and the healer? Healers hut +1 health -1 disease per turn; Healer has -5 disease per turn; Is a healer without a hut that more efficient. Perhaps we should boot all doctors out of doors and have the healthiest world ever.

The health buildings have two upgrade lines with the haler unit upgrading with these lines and other techs.

Healer's Hut -> Doctor's Office
Apothecary Shop -> Pharmacy​

Suggestion 1: The building have an effect at least as good as the unit that it is required to build. No other change to the building is needed.

Suggestion 2: Each building have extensions that represent the number of healers (of the type it is required to build) it can support and these can then be built. Naturally when you upgrade the building the extra buildings would auto upgrade. These new buildings would have the stats of the unit they represent.

I did look at the suggestion of special individual specialists but could not figure out how to implement it.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Dancing Hoskuld

Until we have real diseases in place I don't think its easy to gauge the disease rate on building and/or units. Right now we just have a hand full of disease wannabee buildings that act more like crime than diseases.

The other factor is healer/police/ecologist units being and band-aid for unbalanced building to property rates. As things get more balanced in the mod the less one should even need those units in the city. Ideally you would not need the ecologist or healer in your city. And maybe 1 or 2 police units.

 

[Faustmouse]

is it possible to have a building more than once per city? So that you can build one Doctor's Office per 10 Pops.

 

[Taxman66]

Or, as has been suggested elsewhere, have the property specialists become settled great people? Or would that take away from the maximum?

 

[matt1975]

Yes the routes are defined

Trial path --> Mud path --> Roads --> Paved roads --> Highways --> Railroad --> Electric railroad --> Maglev --> Jumplane

You can only replace a route with an upgrade. To down grade it you would have to pillage it first.

Tried that, you can't pillage your own improvements.

 

[Thunderbrd]

A big problem I have with C2C is the units that just sit in cities and do nothing. I find that just having the units sitting there greatly detracts from the game to the extent that after they get beyond a certain number, three in my case, I stop playing. Surley they can be replaced buildings and the clutter removed!

The units I am talking about are the healers needed to stop disease, police units to stop crime and the new anti-pollution units.

What is the healer hut if it is not the building and the healer? Healers hut +1 health -1 disease per turn; Healer has -5 disease per turn; Is a healer without a hut that more efficient. Perhaps we should boot all doctors out of doors and have the healthiest world ever.

The health buildings have two upgrade lines with the haler unit upgrading with these lines and other techs.

Healer's Hut -> Doctor's Office
Apothecary Shop -> Pharmacy​

Suggestion 1: The building have an effect at least as good as the unit that it is required to build. No other change to the building is needed.

Suggestion 2: Each building have extensions that represent the number of healers (of the type it is required to build) it can support and these can then be built. Naturally when you upgrade the building the extra buildings would auto upgrade. These new buildings would have the stats of the unit they represent.

I did look at the suggestion of special individual specialists but could not figure out how to implement it.

Ok, so while I feel we may need too many of one type (Crimefighters) to effectively counter Crime, and Healers still need a promo chain for fighting Disease values (unless that's already been done since I last checked) I'm a little confused as to why these are problematic. Its not terribly complex to have them just there in their cities I don't feel. I already staff somewhere around 8-12 defensive units in each city (in a non-PVP game) and I don't have a problem adding these to the mix at all. I quite like them actually.

But I can understand that having so many as we need now in each city can be a point of frustration. I'm thinking the Combat promo line requirement for Crimefighting promos really needs to be removed (especially considering how many people have stated the same around the thread.) This would make those units more effective and thus would make cities require far fewer of them.

However, I do like the specialist idea. And that might even enable a player to forgo added units while maintaining a good balance with the style that uses units to counter negative properties, thereby allowing both play styles and opinions to get what they want.

So... curious... what was the problem you had there? We've been needing to break the specialist limit ever since we started C2C and this is just one more reason, sure, but what else did you run up against? I'm currently trying to work out a display issue on a new Specialist Yield tag in development and could probably help there while I'm at it if its a Display problem.

Tried that, you can't pillage your own improvements.

You have the option off then. Its an option on the Bug screens.

 

[Snofru1]

I'm thinking the Combat promo line requirement for Crimefighting promos really needs to be removed (especially considering how many people have stated the same around the thread.) This would make those units more effective and thus would make cities require far fewer of them.

Does someone from the C2C team feel responsible for this topic(combat promo line of crimefighting unit)? And if yes, could he please speak up what is his opinion about this? We had this topic so often, but in the end, well ... there was just talk...

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

However, I do like the specialist idea. And that might even enable a player to forgo added units while maintaining a good balance with the style that uses units to counter negative properties, thereby allowing both play styles and opinions to get what they want.

So... curious... what was the problem you had there? We've been needing to break the specialist limit ever since we started C2C and this is just one more reason, sure, but what else did you run up against? I'm currently trying to work out a display issue on a new Specialist Yield tag in development and could probably help there while I'm at it if its a Display problem.

The normal specialist is no problem, I need Doctors and Lawyers to be able to continue with my moding anyway. The request was for a new type of specialist a non-population one similar to the Great Peoples, which I could not figure how to do, especially when people mentioned promotions.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Does someone from the C2C team feel responsible for this topic(combat promo line of crimefighting unit)? And if yes, could he please speak up what is his opinion about this? We had this topic so often, but in the end, well ... there was just talk...

Back when the Combat requirement was added, Town Watchmen et al were Melee units (and later Gunpowder units), so it was trivial to get them 30+ XP. The Combat requirement prevented every city from having Policing 5 units without any particular focus.

However, the Civilian unit class has since been added, and now they don't get all that Barracks/Garrison/Wonder XP, just Civic and Great General XP. The original reason for adding the Combat requirement is gone.

(With that said, I LOVE the idea of making them specialists instead of units and really hope that can happen.)

 

[ls612]

Back when the Combat requirement was added, Town Watchmen et al were Melee units (and later Gunpowder units), so it was trivial to get them 30+ XP. The Combat requirement prevented every city from having Policing 5 units without any particular focus.

However, the Civilian unit class has since been added, and now they don't get all that Barracks/Garrison/Wonder XP, just Civic and Great General XP. The original reason for adding the Combat requirement is gone.

(With that said, I LOVE the idea of making them specialists instead of units and really hope that can happen.)

I'll change that on the SVN, now that we have a different unitcombat for them the promotions should not require Combat.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

I'll change that on the SVN, now that we have a different unitcombat for them the promotions should not require Combat.

Estimable news.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Updates
- Increased the amount of anti-disease that Health building give.

 

[ls612]

Updates
- Increased the amount of anti-disease that Health building give.

Un, this is not the SVN thread.

 

[Snofru1]

I'll change that on the SVN, now that we have a different unitcombat for them the promotions should not require Combat.

- Increased the amount of anti-disease that Health building give.

Great! Thanks a lot to both of you!

 

[Hydromancerx]

Un, this is not the SVN thread.

Oops!

But at least it was still relevant to the topic here.

Let me know if I missed any. I basically tweaked everything in the "Health mod" and the "Healthcare Mod".

 

[Thunderbrd]

The normal specialist is no problem, I need Doctors and Lawyers to be able to continue with my moding anyway. The request was for a new type of specialist a non-population one similar to the Great Peoples, which I could not figure how to do, especially when people mentioned promotions.

Well... why NOT make them population based? Shouldn't they be anyhow? I don't think its good to goal at having no need for TW line units or healers as they tend to be good for the armies there too (and TW line units will be soon given an ability to potentially vanquish hidden rogues and such in the city.)

But I can certainly see a play style that utilizes specialists to handle much of the anti-crime and anti-disease role in a way that doesn't require quite as many units. Could be a good maneuvering point between various civics (and potentially traits) as well (some civics make troops cheap while others make them expensive so when troops are cheap units are a better solution but while expensive, the specialists, despite taking up a population, would be more effective costwise.)

So we'd have:
Detective: -10 crime (if that seems like a lot consider what his population alone is adding), +1 Happy, +1 Espionage
and
Doctor: -10 Disease, +1 Health, +1 Research

Sound good?

 

[Hydromancerx]

So we'd have:
Detective: -10 crime (if that seems like a lot consider what his population alone is adding), +1 Happy, +1 Espionage
and
Doctor: -10 Disease, +1 Health, +1 Research

Sound good?

Sound good to me.

 

[MaXimillionZero]

Well... why NOT make them population based?

Because that brings a whole heap of problems with how the governor should use them. Personally, I feel that if they were pop-based specialists they should have no wighting at all and only be allocated manually, but then will the AI ever use them properly?

 

[Nimek]

Since we have problem with big cities i noticed that a lot of city food production (even above +3 per trade route) comes frome trade routes. Problem is: city that give to another city via trade route dont use it own . via trade routes comes from air. It is not realistic.

So my idea

Remove bonuses from trade routes because it comes from air